Reluctant to Launch a Kickstarter... =/

[Saltwater Taffy]

Okay so for the past few months I've been sitting on my first P&C Adventure game but beyond writing the script and fleshing out the story/characters I haven't been able to complete the rest mainly due to budget constraints. I desperately want to start completing the graphical assets for the game but without any funds to do so I pretty much have to abandon the project entirely. I can spare the limited free time I do have to muster up a glossy mockup/prototype for a Kickstarter campaign but without raising some money I'm pretty much screwed. I've seen several successful campaigns in this particular game genre do amazingly well and achieving goals of 60k, 200k, to 400k+ which is crazy ridiculous to even fathom XD I wouldn't need nearly that much yet I feel awful even asking for a few hundred bucks.

So my question is should I suck it up and put one together anyway even if I'm afraid people will bash me for it and hope for the best because what do I have to lose? Should I wait until a mysterious dead uncle leaves me his wealthy estate? Or are there any other possible alternatives to crowdfunding that I can pursue to obtain the needed funds? eg. an indie game publisher that will grant me a modest advance if I present my "currently in progress" game?

I'm all really new to this and I'm excited to pursue it on a serious level but no clue as to how to go about affording to do so =X How do you guys do it? I'd love to hear some personal experiences from others in the community.

[cat]

I don't really understand what you need the money for. Do you want to pay someone to do the graphics for you? Do you need the money to buy graphics software?

[Saltwater Taffy]

I'm an illustrator and plan to do all the graphics myself but all my free time I would have to spend on doing that is normally taken up by the few freelance gigs I manage to get just to pay the bills and feed myself. I'd love to be able to afford to take some time off from freelance gigs to devote my time and energy to my own project but I can't. I'm already couch surfing as it is just to get by with what i'm making now. I would only need enough to well, continue surviving while I pour myself into this project and see it to completion. I would also like to afford to pay for voice actors and a music composer if the crowdfunding was successful enough to afford that but if my budget is constricted I could do without it but it would be lovely to afford to pull that off. Can't hurt to dream!

This would be my first completed game if I managed to afford to finish it so I'm not expecting to raise or require a large budget. But if I'm to start expanding my "game designer portfolio" I've gotta start somewhere :p

I'm curious how others have pulled off completing their games on either a micro budget or no budget at all. I'm eager to get some ideas or advice from other developers! If I were to do it in my free time with no budget it would probably take me 3-5yrs to complete on my own. But if I was able to raise say...2-5k which may not seem like much of anything to most game publishers out there I could finally finish this project in less than 3-4months.

[cat]

I'm curious how others have pulled off completing their games on either a micro budget or no budget at all.

I guess how most people do it - in their free time.

This would be my first completed game if I managed to afford to finish it...

Not a completed game yet and not even bothered to spend some free time on basic graphics yet - I doubt that someone is willing to spend money on such a kickstarter...


It may sound harsh, but unless this is the most innovative game concept with amazing story and stuff, I don't think this will be funded successfully...

[qptain Nemo]

Ultimately it's your decision to make and I don't have any first-hand experience on crowdfunding but here are some thoughts.

even if I'm afraid people will bash me for it

It'd really suck and it'd feel very personal if people dislike your campaign and/or decision to run it, but realistically thinking, there are so many crowdfunding campagins now, everybody would forget about yours within the next 3 minutes if they don't like it. So that probably wouldn't last and it probably isn't worth being afraid of and cancelling the whole plan.

eg. an indie game publisher that will grant me a modest advance if I present my "currently in progress" game?

Publisher or not, but making an actual "currently in progress" demo/prototype is the single most important thing you could do to improve the chances of your game, if you ask me.

Finally, from what I've seen and heard, when starting a crowdfunding campaign, the most important thing you have to ask yourself is whether you're up for putting effort into attracting attention to it. A campaign without sufficient exposure is a doomed one. Thus you have to be prepared to advertise, promote, plug your campaign in every way you can think of, contact press, reach out to communities, etc etc. Frequent updates of the campaign page itself are also said to help. You have to be ready to work on all that virtually non-stop for the entire duration of the campaign if you really want to take your chance at success.

You're an artist though, so at least you can make some pretty promotional material at no cost. That's a good advantage, pretty graphics sell, even if it's just promo concept art.

Being an indie and/or trying to become a full-time indie is truly hard as hell. I wish you the best of luck with this.

[selmiak]

then you better make a really good pitch video and convice people to pour money in your direction. And then ask for 7-9k for kicksarter fees and the goodies you give our to backers...

[Saltwater Taffy]

Not a completed game yet and not even bothered to spend some free time on basic graphics yet - I doubt that someone is willing to spend money on such a kickstarter...
It may sound harsh, but unless this is the most innovative game concept with amazing story and stuff, I don't think this will be funded successfully...

Yeah like I mentioned I've pretty much finished the story/script for the game. Right now I'm just working on some prototype artwork in an attempt to put together a polished mockup of the game so that I can at the very least announce the game's pre-production. I would eventually intend to utilize that material to create a proposal video for a crowdfunding website like Kickstarter or Indiegogo if I surrendered to the idea and tried to go that route with seeking the necessary funding.

But you've pretty much verified my concerns and now I'm not so sure I should attempt to seek funds in that way after all. It was just eating me up and I had to ask! :p

This is an example of some of my freelance work, to give some idea of my competence as an illustrator.

Sadly I can't really get more than 5-10$ for a piece similar to this so trying to save up money for my own projects proves extra difficult when bills and food are more of a priority. I just got really excited with the prospect of turning my story into a Point & Click Adventure game and kind of approached it entirely with that in mind. But I could always re-write it as a novel I suppose. It's so much easier to get a book deal than it is to pursue the game industry XD

I just love telling stories and am determined to get this one out there, no matter the format. Though an AGS game would have been most ideal.

Thanks so much for hearing me out guys! I really admire this community and other AGS developers. I guess I'll just continue to lurk the forums from now on lol.

[qptain Nemo]

That is a very nice picture. I really wish you find a way to make the game after all. But eh, you do what you think is best.

Also perhaps you also should lurk on IRC as well.

[Saltwater Taffy]

I've been tempted to try and collaborate with a team maybe. Put my game on hold temporarily while I build up my reputation in the AGS community as a hard worker and innovative storyteller XD but I haven't really seen anyone seeking new collaborators especially without previous experience. Maybe if I was able to build up a reputation and network that way I could eventually earn the respect from people in the community to warrant the right to launch a crowdfunding campaign for my own game without looking like an amateur dickwad.

Whenever I tried to join a gamedev community/forum in the past without any prior programming knowledge I've been laughed out. Especially when they find out i'm a girl, most of the time the response I get is, "oh you want to make a game? That's cute." So everything I have learned or attempted in the past has been self taught and I've never really had the opportunity to benefit from a supportive like-minded community before. Luckily I think that is slowly changing and people are becoming more understanding and accepting. But I still find it rather difficult to get my foot in the door.

Anyone know of any good forums/communities to look for collab/commission work?

[Eric]

You may want to look realistically at others who have done crowdfunding campaigns in our own community before looking at the 400K+ success stories.

• Andail got 675 out of a requested 3500 for Samaritan Paradox (which is an amazing game I had the privilege of beta-testing).
• Mods got 2500 out of a requested 2000 for Kinky Island.
• These guys got 300 out of a requested 30000 for Caribbean Island.
• Creed got 2000 out of a requested 3500 for The Big Sheep.
• Grundislav got 400 out of a requested 500 for Ben Jordan 2.

[Ghost]

Anyone know of any good forums/communities to look for collab/commission work?

You need to poke a while (with a long stick) to find the quality stuff, but DeviantArt is still popular and at has a PM/Message/Group system that's flexible enough to find people and collaborate. I did some collab stuff for an adventure game there way back in 2004 and it was good fun. Nothing came out of it, but seven people scribbling and tossing ideas at each other was defenitely worth it.

Also! That is an adorable picture, and the first thing I though was: Ren'py! Make a Visual Novel! The toolkit is free and apparently quite easy to use, and you cut out a lot of AGS overhead when you go for still images!

[Saltwater Taffy]

You need to poke a while (with a long stick) to find the quality stuff, but DeviantArt is still popular and at has a PM/Message/Group system that's flexible enough to find people and collaborate. I did some collab stuff for an adventure game there way back in 2004 and it was good fun. Nothing came out of it, but seven people scribbling and tossing ideas at each other was defenitely worth it.

Also! That is an adorable picture, and the first thing I though was: Ren'py! Make a Visual Novel! The toolkit is free and apparently quite easy to use, and you cut out a lot of AGS overhead when you go for still images!

I was actually torn between making my game either a Visual Novel with Ren'py or a Point & Click Adventure with AGS in the beginning. Eventually I ended up leaning more towards AGS because even though both are pretty niche genres I felt the aspect of actually being able to interact with the environment and collect clues/investigate the storyline to be more intriguing. But maybe trying to use AGS for my first "commercial grade" game was a bit too ambitious. The major downside of Ren'py is that it doesn't have the element of interacting with the environment and gathering clues like AGS has. You could theoretically program it to have those similar features but I can't code from scratch to save my life XD

I've used DA in the past to search for gigs and clients but haven't lately because I started to get ripped off or scammed. 5-8yrs ago I use to get paid 40-80$ for a full body colored illustration (mind you my ability back then was FAR WORSE than my current level) yet now I can't find gigs that pay more than 5-10$ for the same thing with far superior quality without people crying about it being too expensive.

My other artsy friends think it's downright criminal that I put all my time and energy in jobs that ultimately only pay out 5-10$ but it's all I can get these days. Generally the commission rate equation goes more like 8-15$/hr of work. The drawing I posted earlier for example took 8-10hrs to complete so in theory I should be getting paid more like 80-100$ for stuff I end up doing for 5-10$ x__x;

I should have become an accountant.

[Snarky]

Not to be entirely insensitive, but is it a big surprise that, as a more or less unknown artist, drawing commissioned cartoon illustrations of other people's IP is a barely/not at all viable way to make a living? I mean, you have basically every artistic teenager in the world with a tumblr account driving down the value of your product.

[KodiakBehr]

I don't have much wisdom to add to this thread that you haven't seen already, but I'll note a few things.

Before you get excited about pursuing it on a serious level, have you yet pursued it at an amateur level?  Don't underestimate the value of walking before running.

At the risk of sounding blunt, Kickstarter is not a place where people fund ideas, it's a place where people fund prototypes.  Unless you are a recognized and universally adored name, by the time your game hits Kickstarter, a lot of the heavy-lifting is already done and can be readily demonstrated.  If you need Kickstarter to pay for art, you will have an exceedingly hard time getting funded.  But I think you've already heard this already.

My advice for your specific case, somebody who just loves to tell stories, is to find a small group of people who possess skills that you do not and share the both the work, and the equity in your project.  If you have all the skills you need, but no time, then fiddle away at it over the course of several years.

Conspirocracy cost less than a grand to make.  We asked for $5000, we raised $2100 and half our proceeds from the crowdfunding campaign went to charity.  We didn't use Kickstarter, though, given the charitable aspect of our game.

I've had some mixed experiences with DA for both video and boardgame work.  Artists can be temperamental, and finding long-term partners there is especially difficult if they don't have a vested stake in your project, but it's a good way to network.  I met some great people I enjoy working with there, but I've also been ripped off just as frequently.  Also, if you're just on there doing commissions, you're going to get bled out of the market by equally talented artists from developing countries.

[Adeel]

I agree with Snarky, having a full-time job will be the only 'actual' solution to your problem .

Whenever I tried to join a gamedev community/forum in the past without any prior programming knowledge I've been laughed out. Especially when they find out i'm a girl, most of the time the response I get is, "oh you want to make a game? That's cute." So everything I have learned or attempted in the past has been self taught and I've never really had the opportunity to benefit from a supportive like-minded community before. Luckily I think that is slowly changing and people are becoming more understanding and accepting. But I still find it rather difficult to get my foot in the door.

I don't know which community you joined other than this one but I know very well that they're being an ass. So, don't get discouraged by their comments.

-----
Another solution (this is not a permanent solution though, I'm afraid) would be to form a team and allocate different aspects of your game to different individuals. I'm sure you'll find many people willing to work on your game. You may join hands with a programmer and musician. That way, you can solely focus on your story writing and drawing.

I've worked with musicians here before. They were very friendly and cooperative and did it for free (because the game itself was freeware). So, unless you're going to commercialize your game, I'm sure they'll gladly work with you.

But if you plan to commercialize your game then you can make it such a payment system like for each sale of game's copy, the team members would receive this much share of the total earning. Add this disclaimer to the recruitment thread. So, only those willing to take risks or just wanting to do it fun or get experienced may join it. The downside would be that you may receive much fewer replies than you normally would've had you were paying regardless of the sales.

With enough time and patience, you'll make a game lengthy enough to fully enjoy . In my opinion, it will be loads of better if you first start small and free, till you've enough experience to work on full length adventure game.

Since I were proofreading this post when I saw KodiakBehr's reply. He has said almost what I meant to say. Nevertheless, I'm deciding to post it. I'll add few more lines, agreeing to what he has said:

The thing is that the currency value of developing countries (especially Pakistan, India, Bangladesh etc) is very low as compared to dollars. Hence, the people from these countries are more than willing to do work of equal quality at more than half price than what a normal individual of a developed country would charge for.

For example, consider the above artwork you did: As low as 5-10 $ is equal to 500 - 1000 Rs. (Pakistani Rupees)  which is a fairly good amount of money to work for - especially on one's spare time.

Spoiler

And my god: I shouldn't spend this much time on proofreading...

[close]

[qptain Nemo]

And my god: I shouldn't spend this much time on proof reading...

I believe you misspelled "proofreading", sir.

[Adeel]

And my god: I shouldn't spend this much time on proof reading...

I believe you misspelled "proofreading", sir.

Hahaha! Good one, qptain!

[ThreeOhFour]

Trying to make money from doing something that you really love can be frustrating and seem quite impossible at times.

Best of luck.

[Blackthorne]

We raised $63,000 on Kickstarter, but we spent 6 months working on a fully playable demo for our game, and we took great care to make sure our campaign was well presented and taken care of on KS.  It's not just a "whip something up" and hope they come.  You have to put a COPIOUS amount of time and effort into it, before, during and after.

Do not half-ass it if you want to do a Kickstarter.  Do you due diligence and cross your t's and dot your i's.  If you can't do this, right now may not be the right time for you to produce a game and/or run a Kickstarter.

Best of luck to you - my advice is really to keep working at it, until you have something solid to show.


Bt

[Saltwater Taffy]

Thanks everyone for your replies I'm sorry if I wasn't completely clear in my original post or gave people the wrong impression. Over the past 10 years I have fiddled in game making as nothing more than a secret little hobby of mine. I've made (albeit unfinished) puzzle games in Flash, platformers in Game Maker, VNs in Ren'py, etc. (though this was several years ago) and I feel I am ready to pursue it on a more serious and professional level. I've always had an interest in making games but was never taken seriously and always discouraged to pursue it.

I hope my OP didn't give people the impression that I was intending to doodle up some stick figures over the weekend and slap that up on Kickstarter in a premature attempt to beg for money. If I were to follow through with it I would spend a good 4-6months working on a playable demo and a nice proposal video so that I can do my very best to portray my intentions and goals with the game before I'd even find myself personally ready to take that next step.

I also understand the concept and importance of marketing and networking. I wouldn't launch a Kickstarter and just sit on my bum expecting money to roll in with no effort on my part. Which is why I thought it important and potentially useful to ask the actual community their opinions. Be it their own personal experience, advice, etc.

This is something I would probably launch much later in the year and I wanted people's advice beforehand so that when I do make my "debut" within the community I'm able to make an impressive first splash instead of a mucky puddle. =/

Also figured I'd mention I am a full-time animation student so the artwork commissions are mostly done in the little free-time I get. I don't do commissions full-time and don't really consider it my full-time job. I also do web design gigs so it's not my only form of extra income. My art commissions as of late have been lacking because again it's not a very lucrative thing to do anymore...for really any artist unless you're part of a team or studio. Most people expect it for free and truly never grasp just how much work and effort is put into any given piece. So I've kinda opted to just draw for "me" instead of others at this point. Focusing on making my game is something I was really excited to do but now I'm worried it'd just be a wasted effort if I've already destroyed everyone's expectations with this noob post. I really should have thought that through I'm really sorry guys! XD I hope my uneducated rambling in the world of AGS hasn't annoyed too many people

Cheers!