Suggestion: Best way to play adventure games.

[tisurame]

Hi,

If anyone is interested, the best way to play all those low-resolution adventure games (or any other low-resolution 2D game), is using a SDTV (a regular TV) to play the game, running at 320x240.

I guarantee that games will look some much better that you will never want to use a PC monitor again.

To understand the difference, try to compare an arcade game, running on a real arcade machine, with the same game running on MAME, on your PC monitor.

Believe, the motivation to play adventure games will be on a whole new level.

And of course, it's always better being able to sit on your couch when playing it.

Besides a SDTV with video component input, you will also need a transcoder (but not every transcoder will work for this task).

Enjoy!

[Nostradamus]

True, the lower resolution of the TV and the fact the picture stretches on a bigger monitor than intended smoothes the lines and fuzzyness because it's being streched and in a lower resolution. So yeah you lose disturbances. But it also less sharp and you might miss picture details by doing so. So it depends on personal taste and also what game you're playing.
Also, text can be hard to read on a TV, pending on the font and more importantly, the size.

[tisurame]

Actually, there is no stretch involved, and no details or sharpness loss. Absolutely no problem to read the text (in my opinion it's even better to read). The picture is progressive, since you are running on a low-resolution, so the picture is not interlaced, without flicker (and that's what makes the text hard to read on TV).

Maybe you are imagining it looks like using one of those TV-OUT from video cards. It's wrong. The picture using TV-OUT is fixed at 640x480, interlaced, using a flicker-filter. It looks terrible.

[Nostradamus]

when you take a picture that's designed for a 17" monitor and put in a big screen TV (say 25-29" at least) at full size it stretches cos it has to fit in a bigger monitor it's not designed for. Hence possible loss of sharpness.

[tisurame]

That's no sense. There isnt such a thing as graphics designed for a 17" monitor.

[Nostradamus]

look you talk about 320x240... do you know what those numbers mean?  pixels, 320 points x 240 points. Now when you take a 17" monitor and make a grid of 320x240 points they will be smaller than when you take a 29" monitor and make a grid of 320x240 points. Think about a printer, when you print at a low resolution (think about pin printers) you see points that make a picture, the better its resolution is you see less points and the picture is more clear cos the points are closer together and more blended in each other.
Now game makers who make a game think about the normal resolutions and monitors people have when they design the graphics for their game. They don't design them for big screen TVs. Unlike console games which are designed for TVs. For example the Nintendo Wii supports 640x480 and 720x704, the latter one does not exist in PCs, it also has different resolutions for widescreen TVs. The SNES however which was designed in a time TVs had lesser resolutions and smaller screens only supported between 256x224 - 512x448. Which are also resolution scales that do not exist in PCs.
So if you take a low res AGS or old school adventure game and play it on a low res TV then yeah it will be smoother to you and look better from your perspective. But try playing a high resolution 3D RPG and see that fine small details are lost and text is hard to read.
So, stop acting like you know everything and consider what someone who understands explains. I know this stuff because PCs is my proffesion and because I have tryed hooking  up my PC to my TV.
You think I'm wrong? prove me wrong, with facts. All you do is rject everything I say having nothing to back up what you say.

[scotch]

Upscaling methods vary but certainly the only things you're introducing to pixel art on a TV are blur and colour inaccuracy. And yet I have to agree, there's something about seeing your game on a TV that makes it look a little better, sometimes. Is it nostalgia for the console days of our youth? The (usually) larger display? I can't say... On the other hand, some games are worse on TVs. I suppose it depends on how the pixel art is designed.


"The SNES however which was designed in a time TVs had lesser resolutions and smaller screens only supported between 256x224 - 512x448. Which are also resolution scales that do not exist in PCs."

Although tvs may have been a little lower quality, standard definition TV resolutions haven't changed. I think the low and various resolutions of home consoles is simply because they aren't powerful enough to push high detail graphics.

[Nostradamus]

Thanks you scotch, exactly what I mean.
Maybe standard TV from the 90's haven't changed my much, but you have to remember back in 1990 they were tubes (round, not flat screens) and even a regular TV today have better resolution to comply with say DVD players abilities that it simply didn't need back then. Even if the resolition hadn't changed at all since 1990, in 1990 a standard TV was no more than 21", and 16" were widespread, especially in kjids' rooms were consoles were atteched to. Toay most peopel buy 25"-29" TVs, so even at the same resolution, the picture will be sharper on a smaller TV, cos the pixels are smaller. The SNES resolution were designed for 15"-21" TVs while today consoles are designed for 25"+ TVs plus widescreen TVs.

[Snake]

And yet I have to agree, there's something about seeing your game on a TV that makes it look a little better, sometimes. Is it nostalgia for the console days of our youth?

Yes, I have to agree with that also. The first adventure game I played was The Adventures of Willy Beamish on the Sega CD. I loved this game. Before being able to complete it, my SCD died. I found an emulator years later and was able to play it again - but on the computer. I got a shit-load of nostalgia blasted through my viens, but something was missing. It just wasn't the same as playing on an actual Sega CD and watching it on TV - all blurry and such.

And the same goes with NES, SNES, etc, emulators. I'd love to be able to play those games on TV again. I just recently bought an NES controller for the USB port - fucking rock on, Snake! It slaps the cat's ass, although I'm still playing on the PC.

Nostalgia is great. This is why I've suggested a TV Mode filter or plugin for AGS. I realize not everyone would find a real perpose, but it's just fun. I'd love to see my game (when it's finished of course) have this feature as an option.


--Snake

[Snarky]

Thanks you scotch, exactly what I mean.
Maybe standard TV from the 90's haven't changed my much, but you have to remember back in 1990 they were tubes (round, not flat screens) and even a regular TV today have better resolution to comply with say DVD players abilities that it simply didn't need back then. Even if the resolition hadn't changed at all since 1990, in 1990 a standard TV was no more than 21", and 16" were widespread, especially in kjids' rooms were consoles were atteched to. Toay most peopel buy 25"-29" TVs, so even at the same resolution, the picture will be sharper on a smaller TV, cos the pixels are smaller. The SNES resolution were designed for 15"-21" TVs while today consoles are designed for 25"+ TVs plus widescreen TVs.

SD TV resolutions haven't changed simply because they can't. In a regular NTSC TV signal,  the picture is sent as a series of 484 scanlines, interlaced (meaning you only send every second line for each frame). That's your vertical resolution. If you have a standard-definition CRT screen, it has been built specifically for that number of scanlines. And if you have a standard-def LCD screen, they're probably not giving you very many more pixels, because it would just be a waste.

TVs may have gotten sharper (less bleed across and between scanlines), and these days you can get progressive scan TVs, but standard-def TVs are exactly the same resolution they've always been. Also, 21" the biggest screen size people had in 1990? I'm pretty sure the standard was closer to 24". And 35" screens were available (though presumably quite expensive) in 1988.

[tisurame]

I think the low and various resolutions of home consoles is simply because they aren't powerful enough to push high detail graphics.

Exactly. The reason for low-resolutions was not the TV. Memory was expensive at the time, and higher resolutions require much more RAM.

Games were never made with screen-size in mind.

99% of all Playstation games used 320x240 - at that time 29"-33" TVs were very popular.

That's like saying it's better to watch a movie on a 14" TV than a 29" because "the pixels are smaller". Or it's better to play games using a 14" PC monitor than on a 19" for the same reason.

the only things you're introducing to pixel art on a TV are blur and colour inaccuracy. And yet I have to agree, there's something about seeing your game on a TV that makes it look a little better, sometimes. Is it nostalgia for the console days of our youth? The (usually) larger display? I can't say... On the other hand, some games are worse on TVs. I suppose it depends on how the pixel art is designed.

I'm talking about using YPbPr or RGB to send the signal to your TV - that's the same quality you are right now using on your PC monitor. There is no blur and colour inaccuracy - you could say that if it was meant to use a composite or RF connection.

Besides those adventure games, I also play old PC games, using dosbox - even considering these games were not designed for a TV, they look MUCH better on it - because that's the nature of low-resolution graphics.

Nostalgia is great. This is why I've suggested a TV Mode filter or plugin for AGS. I realize not everyone would find a real perpose, but it's just fun. I'd love to see my game (when it's finished of course) have this feature as an option.

It would never look as good as a TV, not even remotely close, really.

[Snake]

It would never look as good as a TV, not even remotely close, really.

What? It sure as fuck would if done right. Some emulators do it perfectly.
Of course it's not going to look exactly like a TV because, well, hmm, a computer monitor isn't a TV.
Emulators I've seen that do this the best are:
FakeNES - The only thing that sucks is my NES controller only worked one time with this emulator...?? Now I have to use another emu that doesn't do TV for shit.
GENS - Select Fast Blur and mess around with the transparency of the scanlines, fucking sweet.
ZSNES - wow. This one's got a ton of different things you can mess with - even HUE.

I've searched for and downloaded a shit-load of emulators in my time and those are the best ones I've found that look like a TV the best.

If done right, someone definately could make it pretty for AGS. If I had the knoweledge I'd do it myself.


--Snake