Recently my company Vigilant Entertainment was going to carry on the project of remaking 5 Days a Stranger, or specifically, the Defoe Chronicles. During our talk, another team is working on the remake of 5DaS. This team although willing to remake it, is amateur and doing this as a hobby. In return, Yahtzee won't be getting a full commercial remake of his series unless the project dies (In most cases in the modification community, it will).
Our company became worked up and looked forward to Yahtzee giving us a go on the project, but only recently I received the bad news. So I'm here posting today because I want to hear your ideas. Do you have an interesting story that is worthy for AGS material and even for Commercial production? The reason why I'm asking this is because I want to offer someone here who has either worked on an AGS game or have an idea that they want to become reality.
Sell me your ideas and i'll see if anything is worth a full time commercial production. If you wish to keep your idea secret but still want to share, PM them to me. Your ideas will be kept as your own. This means you will become either the IP owner or a writer for the production of the game. I'm truly hoping to see something that will match the Defoe Series style. Thank you.
-Brad Newsom
PS: You can visit our website at http://www.vigilantec.com/
PPS: No criticism please.
EDIT: Thanks for all those who PM'd your ideas. We will go over them ASAP and will figure out which one we would like to choose. Again, thanks!
Altogether now... *raises eyebrow sceptically*
Let's just make it clear here at the start that he is not really paying for the idea. The 'sell' only means you pitching an idea to him. Or this is what I gathered from the "(Not Literally)" sub-title.
So, were you prepared to pay yahtzee for the right to make a commercial game from his IP? If one of us were to become a writer for you, wouldn't that automatically warrant payment to that person, since the product is in fact commercial? And if that's true, wouldn't that hold true for the guy who gives his or her IP for your use?
Quote from: ildu on Sun 08/07/2007 21:02:17
Let's just make it clear here at the start that he is not really paying for the idea. The 'sell' only means you pitching an idea to him. Or this is what I gathered from the "(Not Literally)" sub-title.
So, were you prepared to pay yahtzee for the right to make a commercial game from his IP? If one of us were to become a writer for you, wouldn't that automatically warrant payment to that person, since the product is in fact commercial? And if that's true, wouldn't that hold true for the guy who gives his or her IP for your use?
If the IP was originally copyrighted or commercial, then i'd have to pay. Since this is a free for all forum, anyone willing to sell me (As said before, not literally) there idea, we will look into using it. I'm not going to pay them, but they will have a seat in the production. If that is a problem, then don't post in here. Yahtzee is willing to do whatever he wants with the IP, and doesn't require payment. The reason why he didn't give us IP was because of the 5DaS 3d mod for Half-Life 2 which began work near the end of last year. Paying the IP only happens if the original creator doesn't have a hand in the production.
QuotePaying the IP only happens if the original creator doesn't have a hand in the production.
So, the original creator will be somehow paid (as the finished, new production will be commercial), won't s/he?
Quote from: Gord10 on Sun 08/07/2007 21:16:19
QuotePaying the IP only happens if the original creator doesn't have a hand in the production.
So, the original creator will be somehow paid (as the finished, new production will be commercial), won't s/he?
If I didn't, then wouldn't that defeat the purpose of the original creator having a part in the team? Read the first post. The original creator will be place as writer or assistant on the team.
True.. Well, I had read the first post, but I was still unsure if the person in the team would be get paid or not ^^; (I had seen some topics in some game developing forums that were calling people to work in their commercial projects for free; this was the reason of my suspicion. But anyhow, it is my bad. Sorry again :-[ )
Quote from: Gord10 on Sun 08/07/2007 21:28:45
True.. Well, I had read the first post, but I was still unsure if the person in the team would be get paid or not ^^; (I had seen some topics in some game developing forums that were calling people to work in their commercial projects for free; this was the reason of my suspicion. But anyhow, it is my bad. Sorry again :-[ )
No problem Gord10. I wouldve been more clear, but I thought people would've already known. Then again, this is the internet.
Why should anyone give you free ideas? If you have a company why don't you come up with something interesting on your own? Also, a professional would have approached Ben Croshaw directly and asked about licensing his game, not went on planning it until they found out someone else was making a 5DaS mod (a mod which Ben fully supports and mentions on his forums, btw). Your approach just doesn't smack of professionalism, so I would heartily recommend you make a few games if you haven't, build some kind of a reputation and then start the whole 'we're a commercial company' business.
That's all.
Quote from: ProgZmax on Sun 08/07/2007 22:01:23
Why should anyone give you free ideas? If you have a company why don't you come up with something interesting on your own? Also, a professional would have approached Ben Croshaw directly and asked about licensing his game, not went on planning it until they found out someone else was making a 5DaS mod (a mod which Ben fully supports and mentions on his forums, btw). Your approach just doesn't smack of professionalism, so I would heartily recommend you make a few games if you haven't, build some kind of a reputation and then start the whole 'we're a commercial company' business.
That's all.
There are various flaws in your post. Your assuming we are a top notch company. We are only a independent college based company.
Also why would you care about what we want to do. This is the internet, and this is what we want to do. We have known about the 5DaS mod before hand, but what you don't know is that Ive been using the idea of remaking the series before it existed. I even have Yahtzee's email of it.
So please, being a smartass makes you sound more ignorant.
Quote from: BradNewsom on Sun 08/07/2007 21:06:21I'm not going to pay them, but they will have a seat in the production.
Quote from: BradNewsom on Sun 08/07/2007 21:06:21If I didn't, then wouldn't that defeat the purpose of the original creator having a part in the team? Read the first post. The original creator will be place as writer or assistant on the team.
Aren't those two statements a bit contradictory. A person who gives you his/her IP won't be paid but will be part of the production, but will be paid if they're part of the team (i.e. production)?
It's totally ok if yahtzee didn't want money for the IP. I'm just asking if you were prepared to pay him if he had asked for money. And the holder of the property can litigate as he/she wishes. There is no distinction about the IP being free if the original creator is part of the team. If you take in someone who has the IP and that person wants to get reimbursed for the property even though he's working on the production, that's his right.
Also, creating something automatically copyrights the material to you. You don't need to officially copyright anything or have it part of a commercial product. I'm just saying that if I were to pitch a great idea here and mention that you will have to pay me for the idea, you couldn't in fact just 'steal' it.
As far as being smartasses, you shouldn't be so defensive. You must've known you'd be met with criticism, especially here. Prog wasn't assuming you were a top-notch company but rather an officially listed professional company, since you obviously represent yourself as one.
If you noticed, your quotes are also flawed. If you read the whole post for both quotes you will see that the person of the IP will not be paid for the IP. In the other post it says they will be paid when the product is sold. Try not to pull a michael moore here.
Also about being a smart ass, well it still stands. Most game developers are independent. Especially those creating games with the AGS engine, but it seems that he expects my company to be those with a bundle of money and all the power in the world. Its ignorant. Its not criticism, its just being an ass. Get it straight.
PS: No more criticism please. I never asked for it, and definitely don't need it.
This is gonna get ugly ... so predicts Darth "The Prophet" Mandarb!!
I rather understand what you're asking for however, my ideas will remain mine for now.
Best of luck with your venture.
However ...
Quote from: BradNewsom on Sun 08/07/2007 20:24:32PPS: No criticism please.
That's basically the same thing as saying, "please tear me apart for my idea!" because as you said...
Quote from: BradNewsom on Sun 08/07/2007 21:33:40... this is the internet.
Cheers.
Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Sun 08/07/2007 22:43:22
This is gonna get ugly ... so predicts Darth "The Prophet" Mandarb!!
I rather understand what you're asking for however, my ideas will remain mine for now.
Best of luck with your venture.
However ...
Quote from: BradNewsom on Sun 08/07/2007 20:24:32PPS: No criticism please.
That's basically the same thing as saying, "please tear me apart for my idea!" because as you said...
Quote from: BradNewsom on Sun 08/07/2007 21:33:40... this is the internet.
Cheers.
Forums do have rules and those who wish to not be criticized should be respected.
I guess you want some input from the ags forums. Cool, ok.
So are you thinking of 2d, 2.5d or 3d games. Horror and/or shooter?
Anyway, creating ideas is simple, it's producing something that's the tricky part.
Idea: there is a disease in a village near the coast. Everybody who has it is brought to a island. You're cheching out the island because you think something's fishy, but your boat sinks and you have no items or a way to return once on the island. There are guards chasing you with special masks that prevent them from getting the illness, or so they claim.
See, I just gave you an idea free to use within just 10 minutes.
Ideas are the smallest problem to making and finishing a game, so that's why folk are a bit wary of your offer, i guess.
And Michael Moore is GOD!
Brad: You can't expect that a post like yours doesn't raise some questions and even criticism. In the past there have been several posts like yours, and most of them were barely unveiled attempts to fish for some "supporters". Plus, as speaker of a company seeking talents, you act a bit too touchy, and that's not a sign of professionality. And it's strange that you assume knowledge of terms not too important for a hobby game designer who may not be in it for the big buck.
I had a look at your website and must say that I'm not so fond of your mission statement. Keeping games alive by making, as I understand it, modern versions, possibly even 3D, is a good way to kill a game. Remember Lemmings, Monkey Island, Gabriel Knight. None of these games felt good in their latest, most modern iterations. Shouldn't a company that seeks to keep the classics alive strive to support fangames that use the old techniques?
Plus I have this strange thing, if some man introduces himself as part of a company but doesn't give his age, I feel a bit wary.
Quote from: BradNewsom on Sun 08/07/2007 22:45:24
Forums do have rules and those who wish to not be criticized should be respected.
Where on this forum is that written?
Ok!
One possible flaw with what you're asking then, and in order to protect the rest:
ideas CANNOT be copyrighted! The story/scenario can, but not the idea behind it. So you can actually make a game pretty close to 5DAS (for example) and alter very few things, keeping the basic premises...
Anyways, what idlu says is true about copyright: It exists the moment the "idea" is born (actually it applies to art, but anyways, let's carry on). Taking the idea and using it, is... illegal and immoral. Thank you!
On a serious question now (I am curious): Why aren't you coming up with an idea? On approach someone, in a better way? You're looking for tons of people on the site (which does make me think that you have money, actually. I'm a composer, and would like you to hire me. hire me and pay me. Where are these money coming from?) either way. Why not search specifically for someone to hire so that they can come up with a new idea, instead of searching for ideas?
This reminds me of architecture contests "design the best school in the x area". Only that every participant gets paid, and the best one gets the job (and gets more)... :-/
Quote from: BradNewsom on Sun 08/07/2007 22:28:25
Try not to pull a michael moore here.
Produce a thought provoking documentary? Address pertinent but neglected issues and injustices of our modern civilization?
I don't see what this has to do with game making!
Also, writing a post on a public forum sort of obligates you to be able to meet and handle criticism. You can't decline criticism on a forum that isn't your own.
Quote from: Andail on Sun 08/07/2007 23:01:31
Quote from: BradNewsom on Sun 08/07/2007 22:28:25
Try not to pull a michael moore here.
Produce a thought provoking documentary? Address pertinent but neglected issues and injustices of our modern civilization?
I don't see what this has to do with game making!
Also, writing a post on a public forum sort of obligates you to be able to meet and handle criticism. You can't decline criticism on a forum that isn't your own.
no, manipulating footage to make it go your way, not the original way.
I don't get it, who has been manipulating footage around here?
Quote from: BradNewsom on Sun 08/07/2007 22:45:24Forums do have rules and those who wish to not be criticized should be respected.
Agreed ... but forums also have ettiquette where a "new guy" doesn't come in and start calling respected members smart-asses for addressing the issue that was asked to be addressed in the first place.
No offense intended (but I'm sure perceived) but nobody here is just going to "trust" you and give you their ideas no matter how you ask. They don't know you. They haven't seen anything from you. You haven't been here a long time. They don't know what you (your company) can do/has done. The list goes on and on.
Relax a bit. Take a breath and hang around ... this is a great place to be.
Cheers.
Quote from: BradNewsom on Sun 08/07/2007 21:06:21
If the IP was originally copyrighted or commercial, then i'd have to pay. Since this is a free for all forum, anyone willing to sell me (As said before, not literally) there idea, we will look into using it. I'm not going to pay them, but they will have a seat in the production. If that is a problem, then don't post in here. Yahtzee is willing to do whatever he wants with the IP, and doesn't require payment. The reason why he didn't give us IP was because of the 5DaS 3d mod for Half-Life 2 which began work near the end of last year. Paying the IP only happens if the original creator doesn't have a hand in the production.
That's not how copyright works. If I come up with a story or design for a game and you decide to produce it, it doesn't become yours just because I join the team. You would still have to buy the IP from me, or I would have to give it to you. So when you say "Sell me your idea! (Not Literally)", what you mean is that you would
literally take my idea, but you wouldn't
literally pay me.
By the way, is the production post a paid position? Can the person who takes you up on this oh-so-generous offer expect a share of profits?
And really, you have a game company but no great game ideas? Ideas are easy, it's turning them into reality that is hard. Tell you what, I have probably about a dozen ideas for adventure games. I'll let you have them for $5 each (they used to be a dime a dozen, but you know... inflation). I won't even ask for a role on your team. They're all at least as original as "burglar caught in a haunted house", guaranteed or your money back (not literally).
Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Sun 08/07/2007 23:19:32No offense intended (but I'm sure perceived)
Haha :D.
Quote from: Snarky on Sun 08/07/2007 23:29:14And really, you have a game company but no great game ideas? Ideas are easy, it's turning them into reality that is hard. Tell you what, I have probably about a dozen ideas for adventure games. I'll let you have them for $5 each (they used to be a dime a dozen, but you know... inflation). I won't even ask for a role on your team. They're all at least as original as "burglar caught in a haunted house", guaranteed or your money back (not literally).
Extra :D.
I don't like these kind of threads at the best of times, as it's so easy to fall into a meandering debate on the symantics of the subject. On the other hand...
Hello, Brad. Welcome to the forums.
I've read your posts with interest, but...
Your website looks professional, yet is strangely devoid of content. Your main project seems to be "The Journeyman Chronicles", but apart from some very small images, I can't find any screenshots or production art.
I've checked out your wiki and, although you seem to have short "Proof of Concepts" regarding several projects, there is still little content to view. I had a browse through your forums, which led me to you development blog for "The Journeyman Chronicles", which has a single post informing me that the project has gone back to the drawing board.
I'm not going to dismiss you because of your age (18), as some people might do.
No, I'm going to dismiss you for the following reasons:
1. You have no track record, freeware or otherwise.
2. You have several "Proof of Concepts" in your wiki that seemingly have had little or no work done on them beyond laying down a project outline and/or synopsis. And yet...
3. You're asking for more ideas.
Finish one of your projects, and I'm sure people will be more open to discuss any further endeavours you wish them to partake in.
Good luck. :)
LimpingFish
Thanks for the help Limping Fish. My work can be found in my personal development blog at http://darthrelak.blogspot.com/
The Journeyman Chronicles will not begin production on early next year, so thats the problem that lies in front of me.
Anyways, while reading this thread, I decided to look through my old documents and found a couple of stories I wish to make in AGS. In the end, I think it would be best to produce some good AGS games before I really settle in here. I think i'll frequent this site as there are a lot of great idealists and creative artists.
Hopefully this doesn't make a bad image for myself, but I do wish to do great things, as does my team mates. :D
That's the spirit. Welcome aboard :)
I already forgot what happened :D. Welcome!
Come to think of it, i'm sorry this had to be my welcoming thread. ::) Thanks guys. :D
Quote from: Brad Newsom on Mon 09/07/2007 02:17:24
Anyways, while reading this thread, I decided to look through my old documents and found a couple of stories I wish to make in AGS. In the end, I think it would be best to produce some good AGS games before I really settle in here. I think i'll frequent this site as there are a lot of great idealists and creative artists.
Good for you! When you've made a game and ildu and I (well, I at least) still haven't, you can rub it in our faces.
I should also say that I definitely wouldn't mind a
Journeyman Project remake, especially given that
Pegasus Prime was a Mac-only title.
Quote from: Snarky on Mon 09/07/2007 03:46:53
Quote from: Brad Newsom on Mon 09/07/2007 02:17:24
Anyways, while reading this thread, I decided to look through my old documents and found a couple of stories I wish to make in AGS. In the end, I think it would be best to produce some good AGS games before I really settle in here. I think i'll frequent this site as there are a lot of great idealists and creative artists.
Good for you! When you've made a game and ildu and I (well, I at least) still haven't, you can rub it in our faces.
I should also say that I definitely wouldn't mind a Journeyman Project remake, especially given that Pegasus Prime was a Mac-only title.
The Journeyman Chronicles has been around since the beginning of last year, but due to an ignorant choice my Assistant chose cause the project to be put on hold. Damn legalities. Only recently when I attended the Anime Expo at Long Beach, CA that I had a chance to meet up with Tommy Yune, the Conceptual Artist for the Journeyman Project and Artist for Robotech. Surprising enough, the members of presto studios took great interest in my project, but my assistant accidentally gave the president of Presto Studios the feeling that we wanted the license for Commercial use. Only recently (a month ago) I realized this mistake and took it up with Tommy at AX. Officially we came to the conclusion that the Journeyman Chronicles will be a freeware product. If the first chapter of the project is quality enough, the project will become commercial.
So hopefully things will work out, but not until next year. haha
Quote from: Snarky on Mon 09/07/2007 03:46:53Good for you! When you've made a game and ildu and I (well, I at least) still haven't, you can rub it in our faces.
It's true, I haven't :|.
Yes, calling someone (in this case a moderator) a smartass for pointing out a few obvious issues with your mission/post isn't really the best way to start your time on these forums, and I only hope your attitude isn't typically so brash as it will only bring you trouble. As I mentioned before, a few games will go a long way to giving you some credibility on which to build interest in your endeavors, just don't expect everyone to be immediately interested and impressed with someone who hasn't produced anything because, frankly, we get similar claims on this board pretty regularly by people that aren't dedicated and just disappear. No offense.
Quote from: ProgZmax on Mon 09/07/2007 06:03:37
Yes, calling someone (in this case a moderator) a smartass for pointing out a few obvious issues with your mission/post isn't really the best way to start your time on these forums, and I only hope your attitude isn't typically so brash as it will only bring you trouble. As I mentioned before, a few games will go a long way to giving you some credibility on which to build interest in your endeavors, just don't expect everyone to be immediately interested and impressed with someone who hasn't produced anything because, frankly, we get similar claims on this board pretty regularly by people that aren't dedicated and just disappear. No offense.
Ive seen those type of people a lot in the hl2world.com and moddb.com forums. I frequent those sites a lot and I totally understand were your coming from. I'm full aware of my mistakes and I wish to understand ways to avoid them in the future.
As I said before, I hope to better my image by contributing myself to these forums and its projects. :)
I think Brad understands his mistakes, and has asked me to lock this thread. Therefore I will, but I hope future posts aren't met by huge criticisms & problems!!