Survey: Thoughts on the Gabriel Knight games

[GarageGothic]

As you might know, I'm currently working on Shadowplay, a mystery game in the Gabriel Knight tradition (in my opinion the series is a genre of it's own, nobody else have even come close, although they've tried). And my target audience, aside from myself, is everyone else who loved the GK games.
This is a market survey of sorts, and I hope it won't be seen as an attempt to find the lowest common denominator. Shadowplay will always be a very personal and distinctive game, based on my own tastes and philosophies. I'm merely trying to tell if I'm on the right track as far as the GK audience goes, and maybe hoping to find some inspiration to improve on the game format.

EDIT: I should probably add that comments on the different technologies of the games aren't very interesting in this context. Shadowplay will be more or less similar to GK1 in interface and style of graphics.

1) Why do you like this series of games? What, in your opinion, sets it apart from other adventure games?

2) Which, if any, of the three games do you prefer? Why? What set it apart from the others?

3) Which, if any, of the three games did you least like? Why?

4) Did you prefer playing as Gabriel or Grace in the last two games? Or maybe you liked it better when it was just Gabe?

5) Which parts of the games did you like/dislike? The conversations, the detective work (finding clues, comparing hairs/scales/fingerprints), museum visits, reading books or database entries, sneaking around where you're not supposed to, action sequences (ending of GK2 and 3, the African tomb in GK1), spying on people? Anything I forgot?

6) What were some of your favorite puzzles/tasks in the games? Why were they special?

7) What did you think of the atmosphere in the three games? Not scary enough, too scary, too silly, not enough humor? What about the violence, gore and sex? Too much, too little?

8) Any favorite characters in the games? Anyone you really hated? Were some characters too stereotypical or did you feel they were well developed? Too many or too few characters in any of the games? Or would you like to see more character interaction, beyond the interviews?

That's about all I can think of for now. If you have any other thoughts one what you would like or absolutely not like to see in a GK style game, feel free to express them. I hope you're up to providing some input - every single word will make Shadowplay a better game.

[Barcik]

* Barcik decides it's about time to play a Gabriel Knight game.

[Vel]

1)Jane jensen and the ammount of research she does.
2)GK3. The plot was the best.
3)NA
4)I liked the combination Gabe/Grace in the third part.But I prefer Gabriel
5)I liked all the sequences, but spying most.
6)Le serpent rogue. No comment.
7)A little bit more sex shoudl do it.
8)Montreaux, and prince james me likes. I hate mosely(hes too dumb)

[DGMacphee]

1) It's like reading a good book -- It leaves you always wondering "What happens next?"

2) I like the first one. I never played the second one, but I felt the first one had a better story than the third one. Despite that, they're both great games in a great series.

3) Can't really tell you cause I haven't played GK2.

4) I liked playing both characters -- It really constasted the thoughts of the two characters. I always think the best thing to happen in any drama is when characters have something to say but they just can't say it, and I felt this is what made the relationship between Gabe and Grace so special. And that ending! Whew!

5) I liked all of the above

6) I liked that huge-arse laptop puzzle in GK3! That was tops!

7) Loved the atmosphere.

8 ) I dig Mosley. Always need a shifty/oddball/bumbling sidekick in detective games. I also liked Wolfgang from GK1.

[Rincewind]

I'm a huge fan of the GK-series, so I'm really looking forward to Shadowplay, I can tell you!

1.) Mainly the incredible mix of fact and fiction - How Jane Jensen takes real life facts and mixes with her own plots and characters. In that way you get excitement and a strange, creepy feeling afterwards, when you realize that the voodoo-gods in GK1 actually are worshipped in real life...  

2.) GK1 is my favourite, just because the amazing atmosphere that is created by the whole game - The graphics, the music, the voice acting, and as I said before, the incredible plot.  But both GK2 and GK3 are great games, but it's hard to match the feeling I got the first time I played GK1 and watched the intro in St. Georges Bookshop...  

3.) Tough question - I like all three very much, but I suppose GK3 is my least favourite, but not because of either gameplay, graphics or story.
I just can't stand the Indiana Jones-ish action-puzzles at the end of the game.  Sadly, that's the only complaint I have about it.

4.) To me it didn't matter. They were so different when it came to their personalities and ways of doing things, that it became really fun to switch between the two.

5.) The action sequenses are the only parts I didn't like. The endings of GK2 and GK3 weren't my cup of tea... And the part in GK1 when you were supposed to get past the police... I could never get the timing right before he came back in... That was a bit annoying too.

6.) Not sure - There were many good puzzles. I can't pick one.

7.) The atmosphere is perfect throughout the whole series - GK2 felt a bit scarier than the others, but I suppose that was because it was done with live actors...  And the only game where the gore/violence actually felt a bit disturbing was in GK3.

8.) I'd say Grace, because she is so well written - She's definately not your stereotypical sidekick-girl with no brains...

Good luck with Shadowplay, man!

[D · Y · D · O]

1) The amount of research that went into the story. It gave it a basis of realism which drew me into the game.

4) I like Gabriel, because he's just cool. Switching between two characters however, leaves very interesting ways open to develop your story.

5) I liked investigating the locations of suspected evil/villainy. It gives it an exciting edge to not know if where you are is in fact a dangerous/safe place to wander. (This in contrast to the humongous evil underground laboratory underneath the gigantic black castle with pointy spires and looming gargoyles.)

8) I liked the sympathetic 'leader' of the werewolves in GK2. Much like the above point 5, you weren't quite sure what his agenda was and whose side he was on.

I PLEAD you to use my comments at 5 and 8 when you're designing your game and writing your story!!!

[benbigbrain]

hey i loved GK 1 and GK 3 was good but I've never been able to find GK2 and would absolutely love to play it!!

neway onto the good shit..

1) Well i think that Gabriel knight has a certain tension and atmosphere to it especially in the first one.

2) I loved GK1 because of the above reason really but i hated the ending on GK 3 and the 3d aspect of it wasnt that good.

3) I didnt like GK 3 as much as the first one, because of the 3d bit and didn't have as good of an atmosphere.

4) I definately liked it when you played as gab and always wondered why in GK1 Grace was a minger but in GK3 she was fine!

5) Yeah i liked the detective work, finding clues, comparing hairs/scales/fingerprints and stuff. I liked the computer bits even though i had to use a walkthrough for that thing with the postcards and geometric shapes.... Sneaking around was cool. I didnt really like the action scenes though.

6) I really liked the bit on GK3 where Gabe had to sneak around the made getting clues from each room. THat was brilliant. I liked having to draw things like the tatoos on GK1.

7) I absolutely LOVED the atmosphere in the first game although the third felt lke a different game al together.

8) I would like to see alot more character interaction. it would be cool if you could choose who gabe shags or who he makes friendships with etc. even if you dont know who commited the crime (if there is one). You could have ended up sleeping with a murder or joining a murder on a treasure hunt if you get my drift.

[Hobbes]

1) Why do you like this series of games? What, in your opinion, sets it apart from other adventure games?

It's darkness has been a very appealing aspect of the series for me. Gabriel's character is just wonderful. He's like Batman in that aspect (not the later Joel Schumacher f*ck-ups, think Tim Burton & Michael Keaton). Dark, on that border between legal and illegal.

Also, Jensen's really good at developing her story. As mentioned above, her research into stuff is very thorough. And then she takes fact and mixes it up with her thought-up stuff in such a manner that it is believable. Even the thing about a secret temple underneath a park in New Orleans fit.

2) Which, if any, of the three games do you prefer? Why? What set it apart from the others?

The first one, beyond a doubt. I loved the handdrawn graphics, loved the sprite of Gabriel (It's still the only real Gabe as far as I'm concerned). Also, it's the only game where Tim Curry *works*. In GK3, I found him rather annoying. Dean Erickson probably is a fine actor, but he's not Gabriel for me. His voice wasn't manly enough, I think.

Also, I loved how Gabe has to find out who he is, and what is goals are. This made the first game a rather exciting thing. Also, the puzzles were good. GK2, I never really got into. Perhaps it was because I got the game very late (only last year, due to a lucky coincidence). Then, the whole Interactive Movie thing just looked stilted. Still haven't been able to play the game.

Also, GK3.... bit special there. Read Eric's article on Adventure Games commiting suicide. The story just rocks, but the puzzles left me wanting.

3) Which, if any, of the three games did you least like? Why?

I would have to say GK2. The rendition of Gabe there was just not good, for me. Did like the story and music, though.

4) Did you prefer playing as Gabriel or Grace in the last two games? Or maybe you liked it better when it was just Gabe?

I loved playing as Gabriel. Grace is OK, but more as someone to dump research upon. I did really like doing stuff on SIDNEY, though.

5) Which parts of the games did you like/dislike? The conversations, the detective work (finding clues, comparing hairs/scales/fingerprints), museum visits, reading books or database entries, sneaking around where you're not supposed to, action sequences (ending of GK2 and 3, the African tomb in GK1), spying on people? Anything I forgot?

I loved the conversations, mainly due to the fact Jane Jensen made you believe you were talking to real people. Gabe's ineffable charm only works on him, though. There are games who have tried a similar "loose manly attitude" but they come off as cheap and overdone. Jensen pulls it off.

Also, the part where you had to dress as a priest to the get the snake mould out of clay was COOL. Very hard to figure out, but it was amazingly done. The comparing bit (detective stuff) was also cool. The action scenes, I could do without them. But they belong there. They made my heart thump quicker and nervously clicking in the wrong places... that's GOOD. Although, for my mental stability, it's not.

6) What were some of your favorite puzzles/tasks in the games? Why were they special?

As mentioned above, the snake bracelet thingy in GK1. Also, getting Vévé drawn by the artist. Cool.

7) What did you think of the atmosphere in the three games? Not scary enough, too scary, too silly, not enough humor? What about the violence, gore and sex? Too much, too little?

Perfect. They're mysterious, at times scary, at times enjoyable. The growing tension is a hallmark of the series. You get the feeling of people creeping up on you. Just wonderful.

8) Any favorite characters in the games? Anyone you really hated? Were some characters too stereotypical or did you feel they were well developed? Too many or too few characters in any of the games? Or would you like to see more character interaction, beyond the interviews?

Once again, I liked this.

[Las Naranjas]

A)Suspense. It's a simple, but difficult element to achieve.
B)1. It may just be unjustified love of spriting, but also I think GK3, which I also likked, was too large with it's plot in the end.
C)GK2. Whilst it was better than most, it still suffered from most of the generic problems of FMV, including a lack of interactivity and immersion.
D)The greatest thing about GK3 was to potential to compare replies two benign objects like paintings, and gain different insights into character. That's a mechanism that could be used very well elsewhere as well.
E)I found the research parts fun, and the museums in 1 and 3 informative. But the "click on everything before time moves on" sequence in 2 was ludicrous.
F)Getting Mosley's passport was fun, even though it was classic adventure. La Serpent Rouge was also (surprisingly fun).
G)Somewhat too pulpy at times.
H)They did well to allow conversation to hint at alot beyond the obvious.

[GarageGothic]

Thank you so much for all your replies. Your response showed me that I'm heading in the right direction with Shadowplay.

I was quite surprised that GK1 turned out to be so popular. I suppose the voodoo plot just didn't do a lot for me. But I see how the combination of an external mystery and Gabriel's family history made the drama stronger than the other games. Shadowplay will have a quite dark atmosphere and visual style, much more similar to GK1 than GK3 (and parts of GK2). Maybe even a touch darker - parts of the plot made me really depressed when I wrote them, others are just very unsettling.

I'm glad that I'm not the only one who hated the action ending of GK3. I guarantee that there won't be a single action sequence in Shadowplay (saves me a lot of scripting as well ). although there are a couple of timed puzzles.

Could somebody please elaborate on the Gabriel/Grace question? Is it their personalities or the tasks they perform that make you prefer Gabe? Do you think Grace should be more developed? I'm asking because my player character is a female and more like Grace than Gabriel in many ways.

I loved the Le Serpent Rouge puzzle as well, and I'm really trying to implement something similar in Shadowplay, mainly a number of puzzles where you scrutinize film clips on the editing table and with computer aid. But it will be a series of puzzles rather than a single big one. The interface and the tasks you perform are rather similar to Sidney though.

Read Eric's article on Adventure Games commiting suicide.

I've probably read the article, but I'm not sure. Where could I find it?

Thanks for all your feedback! I hope I won't disappoint you.

[Hobbes]

Eric's article
http://www.oldmanmurray.com/features/77.html

He's a real adventure-lover, that man.

Gabe vs. Gracie

What makes Gabriel so appealing to me is that he's willing "to go there". For example, in GK1. Grace is continuously playing his conscious part, warning him about bad karma and all that. She's against stuff that puts him in personal danger. She's very bright, though, and does all the research.

Grace is a bit of a "do-goodie". She's important to the plot, to Gabriel and all that, but she's not exciting. She's a level-headed person who is very rational about things.

Gabriel, on the other hand, is impulsive. He goes where his desires and/or instincts take him. He is also a charmer, something that Grace is not. His sense for danger is somewhat lacking, and it's sheer luck that made him survive the Voodoo meeting at the swamp. And a little help from Gracie, of course.

Plus, he just looks COOL. Like I would want to look, like how I would want to be.  That's a strong motivation to like a character, I think.

[GarageGothic]

Oh yes, the cat hair puzzle once again. Jane is probably going to hell for that one Thanks for the link, for some reason I hadn't read that very amusing article before.

And thanks for elaborating on the Grace vs. Gabriel question. I see now how my main character Dinah Burroughs is very different from Grace - it's just that the tasks she performs are more similar to Grace's than Gabe's. But she certainly isn't the voice of reason as Grace was. Maybe because she's more personally involved in the mystery, just like Gabe was in GK1. I think it'll work out fine after all.

Once again, thanks for your input!

[Azure]

1) Why do you like this series of games? What, in your opinion, sets it apart from other adventure games?


The deep plot line and serious nature!


2) Which, if any, of the three games do you prefer? Why? What set it apart from the others?
GK one! it had so much charm and the 2d drawn graphics suit this kins of game better.


3) Which, if any, of the three games did you least like? Why?

2 Real Action? but the actor who take over Gabe this time did look like him just doesn't beat Tim Curry though...

4) Did you prefer playing as Gabriel or Grace in the last two games? Or maybe you liked it better when it was just Gabe?

Just Gabe, Grace took away from the focus..


5) Which parts of the games did you like/dislike? The conversations, the detective work (finding clues, comparing hairs/scales/fingerprints), museum visits, reading books or database entries, sneaking around where you're not supposed to, action sequences (ending of GK2 and 3, the African tomb in GK1), spying on people? Anything I forgot?

End of GK1 arg! and timing puzzles I really hate those


6) What were some of your favorite puzzles/tasks in the games? Why were they special?

I loved Gabes sketch pad that was really cool ^^

7) What did you think of the atmosphere in the three games? Not scary enough, too scary, too silly, not enough humor? What about the violence, gore and sex? Too much, too little?


Just about right although the last one got a bit silly near the end.

8) Any favorite characters in the games? Anyone you really hated? Were some characters too stereotypical or did you feel they were well developed? Too many or too few characters in any of the games? Or would you like to see more character interaction, beyond the interviews?


Gabe was my fav. Grace was good in one then went a bit super-feminist later on! Mosely was also lot's of  fun.