So... Does anyone besides me feel like just stop working, and work fulltime on your adventuregame (even though you'll probably never make a living that way)?
Luckily I'm self-employed, so I can take some spare-time when I feel like it, but still, sometimes I just wanna go to 7-11, buy 40 bottles of coke, 40 boxes of cigarettes, and lock the door to my appartment, with a "Do not disturb" sign outside, and just work on my game :)
(Except, then I wouldn't have an appartment to live in... grrr. - Someone send me a winning lottery ticket)
Apart from TAFE, you just described my life... except for the cigarettes part. Oh, and replace Coke, with mass amounts of Alcohol, preferably Bundy & Coke. ::)
Escape from the tedium of work to spend a day with the tedium of making my own game? I'd rather save up my sick days for when there is some new game released I really want to play. ;D
I'd like to take a day off and work on a game, too. But then, for the past three years I pretty much have done.
(But don't have a game to show :P)
:D
Um... yeah, me too. :-[
Quote from: m0ds on Tue 09/03/2004 00:06:14
I'd like to take a day off and work on a game, too. But then, for the past three years I pretty much have done.
(But don't have a game to show :P)
:D
Have you actually released anything m0ds? And I mean apart from music? :P
The kinky island trailer, and underage porn.
I like to think you don't release underage porn... more set it free
Ahhh, nothing like taking a sickday. I try to work when I'm sick and save my sickdays for something worthwhile. Like NOT working. :)
But, I always seem to use up my sickdays for the year before the end of march. :(
Yeah, why not? I mean, Roberta and Ken William's little stunt was the birth of Sierra... why shouldn't any of us try to make a company and work on it full-time? Tierra has proven that it's possible - whoops, sorry, AGDInteractive - ,only they don't sell their games. Any of us could do it, in fact. It's a matter of dedication.
Quote from: redruM on Tue 09/03/2004 06:32:13
Yeah, why not? I mean, Roberta and Ken William's little stunt was the birth of Sierra... why shouldn't any of us try to make a company and work on it full-time? Tierra has proven that it's possible - whoops, sorry, AGDInteractive - ,only they don't sell their games. Any of us could do it, in fact. It's a matter of dedication.
Well, Roberta and Ken's case is slightly different. They were essentially creating a new genre, whereas AGS users go out of their way to emulate a genre that's already passed its peak, for all intents and purposes. Don't get me wrong, that is totally awesome, but it doesn't lend itself well to commercialism.
I don't think AGDI have proven it possible, well not yet, they've gotten popular by recreating something that has already made millionaires, but it will only be proven if they create something original and make a profit.
although I don't think that's what they're about, If they eventually create their own original projects, they will probably still be free (or I hope anyway) The other reason it's popular is because it is FREE (although obvious reasons why they can't sell their products)
If they did do a commercial game, they would do OK, but they would only sell to a small fraction of the equivalent of how many people d/l their remakes. But they definately have an advantage over most if they decide to go commercial.
As far as sick days go, I never get sick, what, you mean you pretend to be sick to get a day off work/school, that's just immoral, I'd never do that.
I work part time/casual/contract anyway so I don't need sick days, Just work days here and there, I get enough days off not to worry about them, although I don't get payed for my days off.
but I use my days off to watch movies, buy dvd's, play Adventure games, make adventure games, but I also do some of these things on the days I work too.
Hi Timosity,
Well, I actually think they've got a good chance of succeeding and selling very much, they "just" need a deal with a publisher, and the free remakes could show the potential publishers that there is indeed an audience for these kinds of games.
I guess my point is that I think that the game will have more users if it ends up in lots of stores than when it can be downloaded of the net (even for free).
If you target the right group of people that is.
Well, even if you think Tierra was a bad example (and although I disagree, I understand why you think so), here's another one - the creator of Dark Fall. And then there's Harvest. I understand these sell quite well.
Besides, the adventure genre has NOT passed its peak - rather, it's "recently" been revitalized. There's still a market for them, if they're good enough.
The genre is past its peak, even if there's still a market. For all I know, there may be a new peak years down the line, but it'll be a long time (if ever) until adventure games reach the status they enjoyed in the early to mid nineties. But anyway, I wasn't referring to adventure games in general, I was talking about the "retro" games AGS imitates. AGS technically supports resolutions higher than 640x480, but people rarely, if ever, use them. The community pretty much exists to create games that wouldn't really be particularly commercially viable in today's market (for the most part, anyway, there could be exceptions). But again, this is not a criticism.
I also used to think it was past its peak. And then I played Syberia. And then I heard about The Longest Journey. And then I found out about the Inventory Magazine and read it through. I think we've all been, and still are, pessimistic - as long as there are communitites, the genre will never die. I mean, isn't that what we're doing? Keeping it alive? And what are we keeping it alive FOR if not for the hope that it will come back in full? And I say it IS coming back! It certainly looks that way!
Well, The inventory is a fan zine, reflecting a small, if devoted group.
The Longest Journey is 5 years old, an eternity by industry standards. It's closer to CMI than it is to the present.
And Syberia, whilst selling many by the genre's standards [I bought it which is exponentially greater than most sales figures] wasn't a hit, even by the standards of the vastly smaller market of the early 90's when the Adventure was at it's peak.
And additionally, it was shit.
QuoteWell, The inventory is a fan zine, reflecting a small, if devoted group.
True, but every new issue has at least news of one new adventure in the making. So, at least one per month. It's not a lot compared to other genres, of course, but it's a hell of a lot more than it used to be some years ago.
QuoteThe Longest Journey is 5 years old, an eternity by industry standards. It's closer to CMI than it is to the present.
Yeah, true - I AM a bit out of date. Which doesn't mean it didn't bring back the genre at a time everybody thought it was dead. Like everyone seems to think now.
QuoteAnd Syberia, whilst selling many by the genre's standards [I bought it which is exponentially greater than most sales figures] wasn't a hit, even by the standards of the vastly smaller market of the early 90's when the Adventure was at it's peak.
I've heard that a lot of adventure games forums started having posts from people who had played Syberia, loved it, and became hooked on the genre from then on, even though they'd never played an adventure. Not a commercial hit, no, but it stayed in our hearts.
QuoteAnd additionally, it was shit.
No, it was just a branch of adventure gaming that not everyone likes in an adventure game, while some other people relish it - a simple interface, interetsting but not frustrating puzzles, and hotspot-less scenarios, everything was made in order to put the story first, and the way it was told. In my humble opinion, it worked - it's a simple story, told in a simple way. That's one of the reasons why it moved us so much - those of us who were moved, that is.
Have you considered that this branch of the adventure genre (storytelling), which reached its first peak with GK and its 2nd one with TLJ and Syberia, seems to be the most unpopular one with the members of the community? I don't know why, it seems that most people in any given adventure community would rather have a stunning interface and/or intricate, logical, challenging puzzles than a good story. God help me, that's how it feels. And I'm not talking about this community in particular, I just have this general impression.
Bu then, if you're saying that the STORY was shit, although I disagree, I can't really argue, if it's what you feel. ;)
EDIT - Hmm, maybe some moderator ought to take these last few posts and start a whole new thread. I'd like to continue this discussion, which I'm finding very invigorating, but I'm driving the whole thread off-topic.
I have nothing against plots told in adventure form with little puzzles.
Which is why I wrote 8000 words on the uber protagonist.
Which is why I love games like Exhbition and photopia.
And it's precisely that why i don't like Syberia.
It took a possibly good idea, and did everything possible the wrong way.
It's not the lack of puzzles, or even the simple plot or anything there. In terms of lack of quality it's nowhere near Sakura, which was far more entertaining.
I kinda spent months thinking about this which resulted in http://www.sylpher.com/novomestro/stuff/blargh.htm
I don't think I've ever played Adventures for anything but story. But still, quite apart from the structural errors that Sokal made when trying to tell a hypertext narrative [see the above link, and Goldmund's MA thesis if you can find it, which unlike my wiritng is a genuine academic work] the story isn't just simple, it really goes nowhere. That would be ok if it was character based, but Kate has no character. No do her stereotypical boss, girlfriend and boyfriend, who we don't actually interact with, which belies the whole point of making it a hypertext.
It might be a story about her spiritual journey, but all we get of that is crappily scripted radio plays over cell phone. The most dramatic encounter thus left is Oscar [the most developed character in the game] asking her repeatedly for a ticket.
That'd all be alight if we got to interact in the plot such as it stands. But we don't, we just see snippets of it between pointless pixel hunts. It's fine not to have puzzles, but not pixel hunts, and not pixel hunts where you have to walk through 6 completely pointless screens. If they were full of hotspots that you could look at that developed the story by telling you about the world and, by her answers, kate herself, but no, they're completely static. And when we do get a hotspot, all we get told is there's a part missing, and they don't even record a new message to say that. In an alleged story based adventure that is indefensible.
I will say the graphics were pretty, and the animation nice. It could have been awesome had it been a world we could explore, and if there was characters worth noting.
But still, look at sakura. Shit characters [some stolen from anime]. Shit graphics. No animation. No puzzles. a fucking hentai game.
But it can at least do a half decent job of interactivity, so it ends up being more moving.
It's really hard to fuck up a hypertext if you can make a hentai game that's moving, but somehow Monsieur Sokal managed it.
M. Sokal! I salute you!
But onto the other points, I can't see that TLJ did bring back the genre. It was released, and praised and it led to...nothing. It didn't inspire a wave of new commercial releases. It was only immense pressure that even got it released outside Europe. If anything it was only highlighting the fact that even something as praised like that wasn't going to save adventures commercially. Remember it was released in the same year Sierra released it's last adventure. So it was released when the genre was more alive than today, and it did nothing to slow the slide.
This is even more entertaining (and emotionally engaging) than Syberia:
http://www.bradthegame.com/
Quote from: Las Naranjas on Wed 10/03/2004 07:17:59
I kinda spent months thinking about this which resulted in http://www.sylpher.com/novomestro/blargh.htm
I can see how creating that 404 would have taken months of your time.
It was finely crafted, and I'd forgotton that I had moved it to my stuff directory.
<sigh> I've run out of arguments, and actually everything you said about Syberia makes perfect sense... but somehow I still love it. But I've seen your point, and you're right.
And OK, maybe I get a little too optimistic at times, it's just that I can't bear to watch the genre die. And it really seems to me it keeps coming back with a few suprises in store. But then, I may be just an 18 year old boy with too many dreams in his head. But hell, the adventure game has been an old friend, now. I feel it my duty to defend what I feel - or maybe what I WANT to feel, what I WANT to be true, even though it's probably not. Some of the best experiences in my life I've felt while playing adventure games, inlcuding Syberia.
So that's why I was so passionate and, in a sense, so senseless about the whole matter. I apologise for all this trouble.
Hehe, I'm perhaps exagerating my hatred because I share an optimism with you about how stories can be told, and Syberia could have been done so well, but it wasn't.
Which was infinitely more depressing than just a bad game.
But thanks for listening to what I said.
/me buys Redrum a beer.
Wow, my first bear! And a free one, at that!
Well, it's been a pleasure having this discussion, anyway. And besides, Syberia 2 is due on come out on April, and we can always hope.
Oh wow! The thread! The topic! Yes, I do sometimes feel the need to call in sick and work on my game all the time! ;D
For some reason, you keep equating my statement that "adventure games are past their peak" to "adventure games are dead." Just because a genre is no longer at its greatest height does not mean it doesn't exist any more or something.
Yeah, like, my dad's past his peak and he's not...
ah... hang on...
...
forget that.
I tend to confuse both terms, and to fight against both in any case, since in my heart they're both wrong. That's what I feel. Or maybe what I believe. Or maybe what I WANT to believe. At any rate, it's not something I can justify, and it's probably wrong anyway, so I won't beat the dead horse any longer.
No pun intended.
Ok, this will be my last post on the matter. To illustrate my point: If you believe adventures are NOT past their peak, you're essentially saying the adventure genre wasn't at its strongest at some point in the past. I understand that in the last several years we've had a few good adventure games, but to claim that the peak wasn't at some point between about 1988 and 1998 is sort of absurd in my opinion. The fact that people have to keep referring to The Longest Journey as an example that the genre is thriving is in itself very indicative that the genre ISN'T thriving; the game came out in 2000, and it's now 2004. Ten years ago, you could list multiple great adventures that came out in a timespan of a several months. Again, the genre isn't really DEAD, but it sure isn't jumping around and doing a jig.
Adventures aren't dead. They ARE thriving!
See:
http://www.bradthegame.com/
Man, how many times do I have to post this link before people realise I'm right?!
I'm taking a sick day right now!
I played a new adventure game the other day. It was called, "Where the hell did I leave my keys?" The game had a lot of filthy language.
My favourite adventure:
www.jerking.com (http://www.jerking.com)
I got over 12000 points in Brad, the game