Its funny that at the time that SCRAMM and GLUMOL were being developed, that noone noticed or accepted AGS as an engine as powerful as SCRAMM or GLUMOL. I mean, neither project ever showed any REAL progress and yet even people on this board, at the time, were saying how they were gonna stop using AGS and goto Glumol or Scramm.
All I have to see is, where is Glumol? Where is Scramm? They are both gone. In fact check out these pages:
http://www.glumol.com/english/
http://www.glumol.com/english/diary.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20010611154504/www.scramm.org/feature.shtml
I got both sites off of the webarchives.
Lets look at the features that Glumol offered its users:
*Includes/Defines/ Macros/Conditional Parising --- This is already possible in AGS
*New Types definition --- Possible in AGS
*Arrays -- Possible in AGS
*Global Variables --- Possible in AGS
*Classes, structures and unions -- Already possible in AGS
*Local Variables, Parameters, Return Values -- Already Possible in AGS
*Comments -- Possible in AGS
*Conditionals -- Possible in AGS
*Loops -- Also possible in AGS.
*IDE (Objects, Characters, Scenes, Script editor, etc...) -- This was always possible in AGS. The only thing not possible is the fact that it cant import SCUMM Stuff. Of course, this can be done VIA a plugin though. But at the same time we can still support SCI Fonts I think.
*The Launcher stuff.--- AGS always did all that stuff that Glumol proposed to do.
What about SCRAMM? What features did it promise to its users? I always thought SCRAMM was going to be a Kick-Butt program. And I had faith in it becouse Serge was programming it and he was GOOD! But at the same time, I knew AGS would eventually surpass even SCRAMM. Here are its features that it promised:
*The Lechuck Language-- Modular, OO, C++ like scripting language. Intended to be able to write not only adventures, but even other programs. Engine was to be expanded by modules. --- Holy crap! AGS can do all of this and more!
*The IDE :
- Scripting editor. --- Okay AGS may not support all the stuff that SCRAMM promised, but hey, do you really need all that stuff anyway? We already got Syntax Highlighting and code completion. What more do we need?
- I have no clue what the hell the difference between the Help Tools and the AGS ease of use and manual is. I feel this was unnecessary and could complicate things.
- Compiler/Linker/Builder -- AGS takes care of all of this for us. And we have several options on how to build our games, as well as now we have the option to port the games to Mac and Linux. Be nice if we could get the DOS port back along with a Pocket PC port and an Amiga Port ;)
- Debugger/Tester -- If AGS has this, I have never seen it. But I wouldn't doubt that one day Chris may implement it if its not there already. We do have some in-game debug tools. But I personally use those to cheat instead of Debug. :)
- File Formats --- AGS supports all the same formats and converts it into its own format during compilation.
- LeChuck scripting -- Too much detail to go into, but once again, AGS goes far and beyond with this. IT includes everything SCRAMM promised and Far Far More. Not only that, but scripting can be enhanced via plugins as well.
- Save game functions --- AGS handles all that too and gives us much flexibility on how we write our Save/Load GUI.
- Screen modes --- AGS supports the screen modes and the resolutions etc... That SCRAMM would have supported.
-- Scrolling rooms with layers(hotspots) -- Yep, AGS always handled this. ALthough I dont think AGS has alpha blending or runtime intelligent color reduction. Also AGS does not directly support Paralax scrolling, but it does support it via Plugins.
- Font editing --- AGS has a system for this as well.
-Special Graphic effects --- Again, AGS has different room transitions and even tinting etc..
-Animation -- All the proposed Animation features that SCRAMM had, AGS currently has.
- Music and Sound --- Same as animation
- Custom interface (100% custom)--- Again, AGS can even have Text parsers in the GUI. AGS is far more advanced than what SCRAMM would have included.
- Custom mouse pointer -- Already done.
- Custom Mouse function -- Already done.
-Keymapping -- This could probably be added at one point.
- Autohighlighting of Verbs -- With a bit of graphics editing and small coding, AGS can do this.
So whats my verdict? AGS is more than what SCRAMM or Glumol were ever meant to be. On top of that, it was released far ahead of them and lasted longer. Heck, these projects never released anything.
There are a few limitations that AGS does have though that other engines have automaticaly built in that AGS doesnt. For instance like Wintermute has support for 3d characters and paralax scrolling. I have no doubt that one day though, AGS will have all these features (That are currently plugins) built in.
On top of that, AGS can create fully 3d applications. Just check out some of the modules, and completed games. I have never seen Wintermute do this. And lets not forget AGAST. In my opinion, this was once more powerful than AGS, just harder to use. But now it is in every way inferior to AGS.
Plus look at some of the great features that AGS has that no other Engine has:
*Ability to run a game inside an AGS game
*Language translations.
*Plugins
*Ease of use
*Ports to Linux, Mac and Windows.
*Game Templates
*Speech in games is possible and very easy to do.
*Easily create a PnC third person adventure or first person adventure as well as text adventure games such as Sierra's style or Questprobe(Scott Adams, Infocom) style games.
On top of that, AGS can now recreate any game from the SCUMM engine, The AGI/SCI engines, AGAST, RoBOT, Maker R2 and any other Adventure game engine.
And if thats not enough, AGS must have the record for most Adventure games ever created by an engine, a great programmer (Who takes the time to talk to his users), and a great community. And most importantly of all, the engine is FREE! And there are no Ridiculous licenses!
My final, final verdict is : AGS is the greatest Adventure game engine EVER! Thanks Chris Jones. And I hope you all enjoyed my opinions and reviews.
EDIT: Seems we are back on topic and more peaceful, so I changed the Topic name. Hope noone minds.
I don't wanna disturb your praise, but I have a little technical correction:
Up to my knowledge, AGS does not support classes (or functions within structs) and their inheritance etc. yet. I can't wait to see that in AGS though. It would then be "real object-oriented"!
Apart from that you're right, AGS is teh king!!11!! :=
I think AGS does support functions in structs and inheritance, seen them mentioned in the tech forum, it just isn't documented anywhere, like all the best features!
And;
Quote
Its funny that at the time that SCRAMM and GLUMOL were being developed, that noone noticed or accepted AGS as an engine as powerful as SCRAMM or GLUMOL.
Yes they did! :P
SCRAMM and GLUMOL never, as you know, existed. What people saw in SCRAMM and GLUMOL was their windows based editing abilities, and that was what was seen to be superior about them. But I think you'll find everyone that was waiting for SCRAMM was still using AGS instead ;) Well - every sensible soul, at least!
Edit- As Petteri says it was quite funny waiting for both! I remember the whole thing with trying to get a screenshot out of Slaughter (SCRAMM's developer) but it never happened, and when it DID it was just a splash screen screenshot! LOL. Then the nice looking website died and so did the forum, and all that was left was the OLD SCRAMM board!! As for GLUMOL - lol, well they had some screenshots at least - but I remember quite a bit of flaming going on at their boards (but then that happened over at SCRAMM, too! :P) and then they "released" their engine, some strange 10mb corrupt zip file or something that 2 people in the world claimed they managed to open and do stuff with, or something. Such bull! :D Jocke Andersson was waiting on the release of GLUMOL to make FoY ;)
Haha, nice digging up that Scramm website! I remember waiting and waiting and visiting that site every now and then, waiting for the engine to be ready. I wasn't hardcore enough to use AGS back then.
I also have faint memories of Glumol website. I remember I was going to use it, too, in one point with my friend. We we're going to make the best adventure game ever! Oh, how silly we were...
Yeah, I remember waiting for SCRAMM. I liked the idea that the editor was in Windows. Your right MODS about that one. But I was still using AGS at the time. I was waiting for SCRAMM so that I can make my own Zak McKracken Sequel. It was also going to be a sequel to DOTT, in which all the characters would interact with eachother. Boy am I glad I never finished that project!
Mr. DiPerla, I think you just summed up 90% of the games people waiting for SCRAMM and GLUMOL were going to make...
In that respect, thank the holy hell they died!
I remember making such rediculous claims as "Well, I guess I'll play with AGS until SCRAMM or Glumol is released. I'm guilty of that.
But if it wasn't for the glumol board, I wouldn't have met my new friend m0ds, or learned what board-trolls were until later.
Then thank you GLUMOL for prosporous friendships with Scott's, but up yours GLUMOL for wasting half a year of my life! :P
Sometimes you dont know you have a good thing in front of you until all else fails.
Wait.. Did that make sense.
Man, I dont know why I even wrote that comparisson and review. I just felt that the accomplishments that AGS has made are far and beyond. And I thought this should be recognized. Just a few things missing like I said;
*3d Characters built in
*Flashlight function built in
*Paralax Scrolling built in
*Resolution up to 1024*768
*A port to my favorite Computer the amiga, To the program I play on my PS2 -Dos, and my favorite handheld- PocketPC. Heres hoping.
AGS, Chris, Your still great though!
Board troll? What? If you want to post a comment that'll be five pounds?
Let me google that...
Oh THOSE people!
Let me remind you all that AGS (back then as Adventuroso Creatori (AC) in made-up latin) used to be a primitive editor that could barely make Sierra-like adventures when there were things made about SCRAMM and GLUMOL. Then AGS (Adventuroso Gamus Studium) came along and SCRAMM and GLUMOL seemed to extinct. And that's how survival of the species works, my friends.
I did see a screenshot of the SCRAMM IDE, once... so it was actually being built. But, it was just way too ambitious, really. What Mr. Pumaman did right was that he incrementally updated the program. SCRAMM was supposed to do everything AGS does now straight "out of the box". Also, Serge only co-designed SCRAMM because he was working on SCUMMRev most of the time, or something. The real mastermind behind it was James "Rethguals" Slaughter.
I was a SCRAMM kid, that's where I met some guy called Francisco Gonzalez who lived in Florida. I wonder what ever happened to him...
I remember having stupid internet fights with that kid Mekilson or whatever his name was. He would then be all clever and call me CumBuddy... oh, the hilarity. It was that day that I was determined to be a mod, or something like that.
I think I always felt that Glumol would come. I even defended the makers in the forum when the non-believers started to fight. It was the lack of updates that drove the masses to chaos and the final break-down of the forums. What's that you say, current glumol page?
Vive Glumol!
Well, Vive Glumol, indeed.
Mekilson, King Super, Worldcreator [I think that was his name], I remember all of them having wonderful fights on the SCRAMM forums. Neole was there too...
King Super and someone else got in a terrific fight about who was a better artist and if Photoshop should have predefined user sets so that different people could use the same program and it would be set up differently... Man, what a useless forum...
But I did meet a guy named Mike [or Matt?] who went to my college and was on the SCRAMM boards... Small world.
Don't get your hopes up too high. AGS still has to compete with klick and play.
-MillsJROSS
Pfft! Klick n Play. I never liked their software.
I remember having some wars with the guys on the board too.
I remember an E-mail war with Slaughter and Serge. Its funny, I gave up on Glumol when the team never got back to me after sending them soooo many e-mails and ICQ messages. I looked at the screenshots and were able to re-create it in VB. After putting the evidence together, I realized it was hopeless. Glumol was a fake.
Thats why I stayed with SCRAMM. And if most of you remember me from way back when ( I was one of the first AGS EZboard members, even before MODS ! Thats old man) I never really participated on the boards except to give a billion suggestions. And I would e-mail Serge and Slaughter some suggestions. I remember at one point saying to them, why dont you just release what you have and then upgrade the program as you go along. BOY did they get mad. They started calling me all these names and really took it too far. At that point, AGS was the best just becouse the Creator, Chris Jones, never ever insulted me or anyone else like that.
Good ol Times.
Klik and play?
*Does another google search...*
That looks like it makes boring 2D action games?
QuotePfft! Klick n Play. I never liked their software.
QuoteThat looks like it makes boring 2D action games?
Klik'n Play is really old. Easily over ten years, I think. The recent Clickteam programs are actually quite good. I have several Multimedia Fusion projects going on, too. I'll use it for developing platformers and rpg games until AGS can do multiple copies of objects/characters.
Chrille's 'Urban Joe' game has been made with MMF (http://www.gaspop.com/download.htm#urbanjoe), so I guess it can't be all that bad. Of course, if you find 2d action games boring by default, then this probably doesn't matter to you.
I never heard about GLUMOL and SCRAMM, though. But I'm only 2 AGS years old, so I guess that's no surprise. Either way, go AGS! :=
Wow, I am still surprised you never heard of Glumol or SCRAMM.
Oh and regarding 2d games, such as Mario games etc... I was a big fan of them. But as I got older, they interested me less and less. For adventure games, Clik n Play just doesnt do it for me.
Well, boring except for the metal slug series, these days.
I've never heard of those two programs either.
I learnt of AGS through this ill-fated magazine called "Gamemaker" which had AGS included on the disc. At the time there was only an aging computer in the house, and when I bought the expensive magazine I was sad to realise the disc was a DVD-ROM and the ancient computer was CD_ROM only. Boo hoo!
So, one of the reasons for saving up and getting a pc this year was AGS!
Joseph Di Perla, I have been here for years, and you always pop up and give lists and lists of suggestions to what CJ should implement in AGS next. Yet, as far as I can tell, you've never made a game or demo or something in AGS, correct? I might be wrong, please link me so I can play your games and see where all these suggestions you've been giving for years would go to. Even in this thread, after the beginning long-winded AGS vs. SCRAMM vs. GLUMOL vs. AGHAST... thing, you basically still posted to tell CJ what you're hoping to see in AGS.
Quote*3d Characters built in
*Flashlight function built in
*Paralax Scrolling built in
*Resolution up to 1024*768
*A port to my favorite Computer the amiga, To the program I play on my PS2 -Dos, and my favorite handheld- PocketPC. Heres hoping.
Joseph, show me your 3d character mesh that you intend to bring into the 3d-supporting ags of the future. Show me your backgrounds that require built in paralax scrolling. Show me a background you've made at 1024x768 that benefits from the res.
Nobody has thought about SCRAMM or GLUMOL in years. That competition never existed. AGHAST, WM and SLUDGE are the only viable alternatives for people that want to make adventure games in premade engines, and they all have their own different things going for them.
I bet he's just really excited about what AGS has become and just wants to take it to the next level. There's no real harm in that.
Joseph DiPerlahas been very kind to work very hard on his Simpsons Games and free templates for others to use. I even helped him quite a lot awhile ago.
I mean, just be glad he's not demanding the updates or acting like a complete jerk.
-----------
Joseph DiPerla- You mentioned getting into fights on Glumol... yeah, just yesterday when i was browsing the dead forums, I see the F--- You Joseph DiPerla thread... I forgot all about that.... stupid kids back then.
Hey Helm, I dont normally respond this way, but to be quite honest, I dont like your tone. Even if it is text that I am reading, you really sounded accusing. So to address your comments here are my following replies. Whether you believe me or not or agree with what I am about to say, unless you have something positive to contribute to this thread, please do not continue to post replies. Thank you. Here are my replies.
Regarding you having been here for years... Yeah its true, you have been here for years. And not wanting to turn this into a debate of who has been here longer, I think Mods and CJ can both confirm that I have been here in this community longer than you have. If this answer does not satisfy you, goto archive.org and do a search over the years.
And your right, for as many years as I have been here I have always given lists and lists and lists of suggestions. In fact, if you read the previous replies in this thread, I said that. But I would prefer for you to do a search on when the last time I posted a list of suggestions was. The last few months(Years maybe) I have given smaller and smaller suggestions. And even if I had given tons of suggestions, you still have no right to demand to see my work. If CJ wishes to question my suggestion, its his, and only his decision and right to do so. In fact, I improved so much that CJ even granted me priviliges to moderate the Bug Tracker. As far what I stated in this thread, they were not suggestions. It was more of a wishlist. Suggestions are something for CJ to work towards. Wishlist is something I would like but have to realize that we may never see. So please dont accuse me of suggesting something to Chris in this thread.
QuoteJoseph, show me your 3d character mesh that you intend to bring into the 3d-supporting ags of the future. Show me your backgrounds that require built in paralax scrolling. Show me a background you've made at 1024x768 that benefits from the res.
Like I said, I dont have to show you anything. But since I dont want you to reply in a rude way again, Look at my icons under my screenname. You will notice I offer some basic help with characters done in 3d. So yes, I do 3d art. Which means I would have 3d characters. Also, I was working on a 3d transformers game and TFQ, so yeah I do a little 3d, not really impressive, but I still do it.
As far as the res, when I scan images, thats the size it comes out in. And everytime I resize a scan to be smaller, it turns out to be like crap. On top of that, I dont have any paralax scrolling images, fine you got me there. But sometimes I really would like you to understand my giving suggestions too. Sometimes its not just for me. I know that people have told me that if AGS supported so and so feature, they would use it. So in a sense, more features also help others to be encouraged to make games. Plus if you notice some of the suggestions that I made the past have been implemented, and tons of people have used the features to make their games. For one instance, the plugins feature was a request I made a while ago. And from what I remember it started a good thread which eventually lead CJ to implement it. And people used it.
QuoteYet, as far as I can tell, you've never made a game or demo or something in AGS, correct?
You were correct when you stated you might be wrong. Here have been the following things I have worked on in AGS:
*I had the second official Zak McKracken Sequel going on. I did try and make the game. I had a demo which I never released. It had only two rooms with some concept art as backgrounds and a 1 frame Zak character. I had dropped this becouse other projects were advancing further than I was.
*I was involved in "The new adventures of Zak McKracken".
*I was also involved in the Sam N Max Sequel "The Gilbert Case" in which the game had a demo. But the project leader had lost contact with me.
*I was involved in the "Big Project" a few of us were working on a few years ago. This got dissolved becouse of a lack of interest. I always wanted to get this started again, but figured nobody cared.
*I was involved in "Demo Quest" a few years ago. Of course, becouse of time restraints and other real life issues, I had dissappeared from the project. This was my fault, and I had felt bad for letting the team down.
*A few years back, I also had some tutorials on how to make your own GUI's in the style of LEC games. These tutorials became obsolete with the new scripting engine and other features which made making those GUI's easier.
*And here is my big project that I have been working on for years: http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/games.php?action=detail&id=546
It is a game template, but you can consider it a demo as well. There are like 40 rooms and 9 characters in that template as well as a complete custom GUI. A lot of work. There are certain features I would like in the game, so in order to complete the game the way I had in mind, I had to (And probably still will) suggest features to Chris.
Now Helm, I think (in this thread anyway) we got off to the wrong foot, me and you. As per Forum rules and respect to CJ, the mods and others, lets try and be peaceable. You know, I was planning on asking you to work on a game with you. I always felt you were talented as far as art goes and adventure games in general. If you are still interested, please PM me and we can talk.
But to the rest of you, CJ, the mods... Sorry if I seemed rude in my reply. Please, lets continue to stick to the topic of discussion here.
--------------BACK TO TOPIC-----------------
Yeah, I am surprised noone has heard of those two projects. They were like legend, even without a release.
To Scummbuddy: Thanks for the defense, but for future, just so the moderators dont need to be deleting and modifying posts, just PM the user any thoughts you may have. But thanks for your defense. And yes, you have helped in the Simpsons game and I am very grateful for thats. I would like to publicly thank you for that.
And yeah, I do remember that thread. In fact, I think the same person did the same thing to me here. CJ did a comparison of IP's and I cant remember exactly the name of the guy who posted that. I think it was Jeremy something...
Like I said before, good ol' times.
In saying I have been here for a long time I was meaning that I've watched what you've posted for said time, not implying that I'm an older user and therefore my opinion carries extra weight. I think the latter insinuation would be distracting and absurd. And it's interesting that you've misunderstood my intention, and turned it around and thrown it back at me with equal absurdity and distraction from the point. You've been here longer than me. Big deal.
Here's points, then:
*learn to use your scanner, the levels and sharpen tools in Photoshop. That'll help you more than ags having 1024 support. Not that 1024 support is bad per se, but this is the thing, this illustrates your attitude completely: If CJ adds higher res support, it will be for people who will use this to do things they wouldn't otherwise be able to do. Like very detailed rooms, where the extra clarity is needed, or what have you. CJ will not add it so people who do not know how to use their scanner/photoshop will have an additional way to make their games bloated.
*If there's a plugin that does what you want it to do, all the time, no troubles, stable, like say, the flashlight plugin, then use this plugin and get on with your project. Why do you need it to be built-in?
*Yes, you are right, you don't have to show me anything. I didn't want you to show me anything severily, although if you had it would be nice. I asked you to show me so as to carry a point home: that your endless lists of suggestions do not go to practical uses. They never have. And it's not everybody that's doing this, it's you, for as long as I remember! I've suggested two things to CJ in all my years as an ags user: the text dump ( for spelling and translations ) and a complicated animation editor in ags. The former was useful, and was implemented. The latter was judged to be too much work for too little, and bloated, and never was made. On both cases, I felt guilty for having asked CJ to "OMG MAEK MY FEATUR!" and I've made my share of ags games. Bottom line, from your impressive list of things undone, I mainly see a simpsons demo that has materialized. Do you understand the difference from say, when Chrille or Grundislav post a list ( note that they've never or scarcely done this, though ) of things they'd appreciate to have and use in ags, and when a person that hasn't released much of anything does the same? I have no problem with people who haven't made games. But these people don't ask CJ to implement their stuff, and it's pretty clear why. That was my whole point. I found it depressing to see one more 'wishlist' by you YET AGAIN on this forum.
Helm, I Am sorry to have to say this, but to RESPECT CJ, Darth and other Mods and the community. I really want to keep this to PM so that the topic stays in topic. I would kindly ask the mods not to delete or lock this thread as I think this can become an interesting discussion. I am going to keep my issues with Helm in PM from now on.
To the rest of you reading this, I apologize if I did say anything stupid or offensive, or if I did give the wrong idea to most of you. That was not my intention, nor was it my intention to seem or be rude to or even twist Helms words around. I really hope me and Helm can get our issues straightened out in private messaging.
Thank you all for the patience you are having with us.
Please continue on topic.
Helm, don't you think CJ is perfectly capable of deciding who's input to take to heart and who's not to?
Also, if you've never seen any of his art then why the long explination of levels and scanners and such? You say the only reason one should need higher res is for higher detail, if you don't know his art quality then how do you know he can't utilize a high resolution?
Also, Joseph isn't you, you felt guilty asking CJ for something, he doesn't, no reason to expect him to.
"I have no problem with people who haven't made games." I should hope not! That's half of our friends here!
But anyway. I should scan images from my first game I was planning to make with SCRAMM... God it would be embarrassing as hell but fun at the same time.
LOL, you still have those images? Would be curious to see them. What game were you planning on making in SCRAMM?
(Note: Once again for all who are defending my point of view... Lets not discuss this any further in this thread. Please either PM me or Helm regarding this situation. Also I would like to express that we are talking this out together in PM and just to make you all understand... Dont jump on Helms back, there were just some misunderstandings. Thank you all again.)
Move along people, nothing to see here....
Thats what they said about my Zak McKracken project ;)
Reaching far back I found this really bad website that I was planning on putting up someday. I'm so thankful that I hadn't. It's just like not releasing your first AGS game. It just makes sense.
Quote
I am now using Games Factory now that Click 'n Play crapped out on me.
I've tried using Adventure Game Studio, which showed more promise than other ones I've tried, but that one went weird too.
I hope to try and use Scramm once that's out, but I'll convert my game to that engine. I can't wait that long to play my game.
I'm so sorry I was a non-believer.
After searching my HD, I actually can't find any of my old art. Not that it was anything to look at, but I'm partially bummed that I can't find it, and partially happy, for what I will assume are known reasons.
And just be glad I can't show you the artwork I did for my Monkey Island game for the TI-83. I only got as far as in that game to just be able to sail to other islands and see one area, the MI dock, since the TI-83 can only hold 10 drawn frames. It was fun and it took my mind away from class.
AGS was just something to keep me occupied whilst waiting for SCRAMM to come out. I still believe that one day it will, and at that point I can finally stop developing AGS!
LOL, lets hope that never happens! Someone put out a gag Topic on how you were killed a while back. I really think my heart stopped for a second. I instantly became depressed. Then when I read the topic, I felt much anger.
I dont care what Agast, Sludge, Wintermute, or MAD has or what SCRAMM or GLUMOL promised, CJ, your still the King!!!! LEC and Sierra should have hired you.
Quote from: Joseph DiPerla on Fri 02/12/2005 17:29:17
You will notice I offer some basic help with characters done in 3d. So yes, I do 3d art. Which means I would have 3d characters. Also, I was working on a 3d transformers game and TFQ, so yeah I do a little 3d, not really impressive, but I still do it.
hehe. dont know how much help you can be if you use poser.
Poser really isn't that bad. I use Poser 6 now. Its really much simpler to use. You just download Hair and clothing. You can change colors and designs. You attach the stuff to the body.
You edit the face in almost every possible way until you get the desired look. You edit the hair style and length. You attach any other foreign objects.
You use the preset poses to simulate walking and other things and then BOOM! you extract it to JPG or BMP.
Simple, really.
that's just my point, poser does everything for you. It comes with prefabricated models. I was referring to people who wants to build their own characters from scratch. You won't be able to help them that much.
Well, that depends. Poser can do some amazing things. Plus it still is helpful, I mean, how many people own Poser?
in some circles poser is conscidered a sin ;D. You can't really call yourself a 3d artist or some such if you use premade models. Wouldn't it be sooooooo much more rewarding to model the character yourself. No offense or rudeness meant, just a healthy argument :)
No, its a good point. I never really called myself an 3d artist, even though I use Blender to do other artwork. But either way, easy or not, cheating or not, I can still provide some 3d characters ;D
I have to admit that when I saw that Joseph DiPerla had started a new thread, the first thing that struck me was "There's that guy who've come a few times a year since the dawn of ags to make request lists for new ags functions."
I don't wanna sound like I'm dumb-defending Helm or anything, or add fuel to a fire that has already died. I just find it a bit ironic that when it comes to this trend of showing almost complete absence apart from a sporadic wish-list every now and then, this thread doesn't constitute an exception.
No offense, it's just an observation, no criticism. Good luck with that simpson game, btw.
http://tin.nu/egor/
I remember waiting and waiting and waiting for that....
Ok, this is the ABSOLUTE LAST POST I will make in regards to this situation regarding my suggestions and Helm and Andails observation. Before we continue with this topic, I want everyone who gives a rats behind to please post here NOW and get it all out of your damn systems. You all have one day, after that, lets stay on THE TOPIC OF MY THREAD.
Helm, Andail, you can make your friggin observations, but from now on, keep them to yourself. I would also like to ask any AGSer who is in favor of me in this discussion to please keep calling the following people by this name: "Those guys who have to flame and stick their unimportant observations which tick people off." Here is that list:
Helm
Andail
And anyone else who contributes to this debate. Maybe CJ can make it a permanent Avatar to you people so that everyone could see.
By the way, Here are links that date back to March 2004, almost two years ago. These are all my threads which are CLOSE to being suggestions. You will notice that the title you are all giving me no longer fits. Here are my past suggestion posts, feel free to do your own search:
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=13784.msg167393;topicseen#msg167393
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=15818.msg196704;topicseen#msg196704
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=23192.msg286105;topicseen#msg286105
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=22406.msg274126;topicseen#msg274126
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=23494.msg290946;topicseen#msg290946
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=13491.msg162124;topicseen#msg162124
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=12251.msg146151;topicseen#msg146151
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=20426.msg249492;topicseen#msg249492
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=23107.msg285151;topicseen#msg285151
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=21531.msg263155;topicseen#msg263155
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=14143.msg172638;topicseen#msg172638
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=23091.msg284706;topicseen#msg284706
I am sorry to all those who have defended me, to CJ, to m0ds, and to all the others who have stuck on topic. But this is starting to piss me off. I did not start this damn friggin topic, just so that CJ can look at my wishlist. I really didn't even think CJ would care about this post. You know people, I wanted to have a good discussion on this, but I have a feeling this is heading towards a locked thread. And its sad becouse I took a lot of time to write the post and do my research on the projects(even if it is imperfect). And in reality, the post was made to Praise CJ for his hard and generous work.
But thats it! Everytime I post anything that is half-decent, I get harassed! You morons who keep thinking of me as only the guy who makes suggestions, should do a search on my posts. Then you will notice that that I dont only make suggestions.
Once again, I am sorry for any foul language used in this post, and for just being so pissed off at this moment, but some retards need to turn something good into something evil just becouse they all have no lives and nothing better to do. CJ, I am especially sorry to you for this. I dont want your boards to be a place of trouble. But I really had it now.
It's probably better not to post when you are angry.
Believe me when I say I am not jumping on the bandwagon (is there even one?) but I do remember you for two things:
1. Posting a lot of feature requests
2. Being really into star wars ( I remember you all dressed up in a star wars outfit)
I'm not saying it's bad, but thats what I associate you with, just like people associate being a sexy mother with me....right? right?
I thought this was cleared up in PMs (remember? the bit where you said "on a far more HUMAN level, I'd like to apologize" and I said "likewise, on a far more HUMAN level, I apologize too"? I guess we're back to being animals...) and you asking CJ to ban me. I'm gonna point out that I was called a moron and a retard in your last post, whereas I never called you any names. Even poor Andail who expressively said that is not supporting me got called those things. I have to tell you, Andail's pretty smart. I've met him, he's intelligent and polite and well-spoken. Hardly a retard. And still you don't see me running to any moderators to shut you up. I might have thicker skin than you, but you better start reconsidering your attitude. There are ways and ways to deal with what makes you mad, and this is hardly the best one.
Let me act as a moderator here (although I shouldn't and it's not really the case but...)
There are three members involved into this: Joseph, Helm and andail.
Try not to post here for a couple of days. Relax and see what happens.
I've got to say this. From the three of you I got a good impression only from Andail, who he knows how much I love/care about. Helm suddently came onto Joseph (for no apparent reason for me who am here only 6-7 months, but do have 600 posts (not bad at all!)) and Joseph politely, honestly politely answered. Then the whole thing backfired to Joseph and now I don't like the both of you.
And I had a couple of discussion with Helm privately, and I find him pretty mature, relaxed and certainly open minded. It is fair to say that a value his opinion.
Unfortunately I didn't have the chance to meet Joseph more, but from what it seems he must be also a great guy! And joseph, I would be pissed also, but then again, when I critisise something I do it with a good heart, open mind and a will to help. This is what you did (from what I can understand), in all your suggestions. Nothing wrong with that really! The only way Helms posts could bother you would be if you felt kinda guilty yourself. After all you, yourself hand picked 12 threads on which you came close to suggesting (or \ctually di suggest). Why is this wrong? Why is it bad?
I can't stand seeing a debate and not entering, honestly. Even if it is none of my buisness, it is that I feel that I can help, and budge in! hehe!
Anyway relax.
About the topic: I dont' care about SCRAMM or GLUMOL. The actuall games in AGS have proven that AGSs capabilities are close to endless. And for me who know nothing of coding or scripting still, but offer my help in other sectors (music) I find that it is not only the AGS engine that keeps us together but this wonderfull community. And btw if anyone wants to say thank you there is a thread in the gen gen.
Just when there was a whole thread with hugs and kisses ... Go figure... :(
Here is my first Quote I would like to point out:
QuoteHelm, I Am sorry to have to say this, but to RESPECT CJ, Darth and other Mods and the community. I really want to keep this to PM so that the topic stays in topic. I would kindly ask the mods not to delete or lock this thread as I think this can become an interesting discussion. I am going to keep my issues with Helm in PM from now on.
I asked here to stay in topic. The topic is: "A comparison between AGS the was supposed to be SCRAMM and GLUMOL". Criticizing me is not being in topic. You cant seem to follow that SIMPLE rule, therefore you must be a retard. Just like you Helm, I am just calling it as I see them.
Here is my second quote I would like to point out:
Quote(Note: Once again for all who are defending my point of view... Lets not discuss this any further in this thread. Please either PM me or Helm regarding this situation. Also I would like to express that we are talking this out together in PM and just to make you all understand... Dont jump on Helms back, there were just some misunderstandings. Thank you all again.)
LETS NOT DISCUSS THIS ANY FURTHER IN THIS THREAD. What dont you understand about that? I am sorry if I am taking personal offense, but now there are other people jumping on my back too for this. This is getting on my nerves. I mean this last quote was the last thing I said regarding this whole issue between me and Helm. Then there were about 9 posts which began getting in topic. Then out of nowhere Andail has to ressurect this topic again. As if he skipped all my requests, skipped all the other things that were said after, and completely went off-topic again. And I tried to stay as calm as possible both in PM and publicly Helm, And it was pretty obvious that your comment bothered me. So why bring it up again? In my opinion, its becouse you would have to be pretty retarded to do that. ONCE AGAIN, just like you Helm, I am calling it as I see it.
Now let me go to the rules of this particular board, since my friggin requests mean diddly squat!
QuoteIf you want some comments, constructive criticism or similar on elements of your game, like backgrounds, music or character art, please use the Critics lounge - no smoking!
Dont want comments or criticism regarding me, just the topic we are discussing. Although this is more for games, maybe we should apply it in general as well.
Quote- We don't want this place filled with general chat.
Criticizing me and bringing up what you think of me is considered general chat.
QuotePlease note, I won't tollerate strong language or abuse
I made a request to not criticize me any further regarding the suggestions matter, and I made it obvious how I felt that Helm brought it up as well. Yet the fact that some people cant seem to listen to this and continue to disregard my feelings on the matter, should be considered abuse.
Now to answer Squinky:
QuoteIt's probably better not to post when you are angry.
Believe me when I say I am not jumping on the bandwagon (is there even one?) but I do remember you for two things:
1. Posting a lot of feature requests
2. Being really into star wars ( I remember you all dressed up in a star wars outfit)
I'm not saying it's bad, but thats what I associate you with, just like people associate being a sexy mother with me....right? right?
Your right, its not a good idea to post when I am angry. But its like I had enough of this crap when it started with Helm. And it started trailing in the right direction, and then BOOM!, out of nowhere, someone has to start this back up again. Plus, take into consideration my defense. I might have other things on my mind, I dont need people demeaning me and bringing up old traits of mine.
YES YES YES YES, we have all established that, I post a lot of suggestions. FINE! I asked people who thought that to post it, and you did. Thank you. But again, look at the post prior to this one. DID YOU SEE HOW MANY REQUESTS I MADE IN THE LAST TWO YEARS?
AGAIN!, do a search on my profile and look at the numerous OTHER things I posted about. Stop picking out something that was outstanding years ago. Thats the whole point of this argument.
And yes, I am into Star Wars. But there are other things I am into far more than Star Wars. For instance, the transformers. I like the Transformers far more than Star Wars. Oh, and to point out that sometimes what people associate with me is wrong... I never owned any star wars costume, nor any clothing that looked similar to Star Wars clothing or creatures.I never owned a star wars mask and I never owned any replica's of weapons and items. On top of that, I never met any of you people here face-to-face, and I never ever posted a picture of myself on the internet. Therefore, you remembering me as wearing a Star Wars outfit is wrong. Now if you could be wrong about that (something you were pretty sure you remember me for), couldn't you all be wrong about me with the suggestions? I mean I have not posted a long list of suggestions in atleast TWO YEARS.
And no Squinky, there is nothing wrong with being associated with something, if its something good. Helm, in his initial post did not associate it with something good. I dont want to be associated with, "hey this is the guy who posts a bunch of suggestions, so lets jump on everything he does now."
Squinky, please dont take this as me being mad at you. I am just REALLY REALLY frustrated. I mean it took me several hours to make the post I made in this thread, and there are people who just decide to find the faults in it and bring it out, rather just let it be. Its kind of frustrating.
Now back to Helm.
QuoteI thought this was cleared up in PMs (remember? the bit where you said "on a far more HUMAN level, I'd like to apologize" and I said "likewise, on a far more HUMAN level, I apologize too"? I guess we're back to being animals...) and you asking CJ to ban me.
Uhm, number one, I didnt ask CJ to ban you. I just reported the situation to him and asked him to make the rules for the forums a bit more clear for a situation like this, so it wouldn't happen again. I said to him if he felt he should ban you, its his decision. And I recommended that you DIDNT REALLY DO ANYTHING THAT MERITS A BAN. Two, we really kind of left things in the air in PM's. Remember? I said lets just forget it becouse it seems like this will never be resolved. So I let it go. I made my last point and even asked you that if you want to make a last point, to go ahead. But we never cleared anything up. We just left it alone. The reason why I included your name before was becouse you were the one got all this started.
QuoteI'm gonna point out that I was called a moron and a retard in your last post, whereas I never called you any names. Even poor Andail who expressively said that is not supporting me got called those things.
Uhmm, again, the term Retards and Moron where generalized and not pointed towards you. And, like I said, if you cant see the changes I have made over the years in this (Regarding making fewer suggestions) and only keep associating me with my past, then yes, your moron. I'm sorry, thats the way it is. If you dont want to be a moron, its totally up to you, stop associating the "old me" with the "current me". And yes, if you have to continue to bring my, or other peoples, faults, then your a retard. And Helm, reread your PM's to me. You didn't call me any names, but I did feel you were insinuating some bad things, which is practically the same.
Regarding Andail not supporting you... even though he stated that, in what way was he not? Not supporting you would be just not saying anything at all. If he agreed with you, he supported you, even though he said he didn't. Its like Bill Clinton saying that he did not have sexual relations with ML, when in reality he did.
QuoteI have to tell you, Andail's pretty smart. I've met him, he's intelligent and polite and well-spoken. Hardly a retard.
No doubts here, but people are smart in certain things, retarded in others. And he might be a polite and well spoken person, but still, his last reply was not a smart post to make. Thats just the way it is.
QuoteAnd still you don't see me running to any moderators to shut you up.
Your right, but I didn't do anything wrong to begin with. You started it and others continued it. I felt like my topic was invaded by foreign material that shouldn't be here.
QuoteI might have thicker skin than you, but you better start reconsidering your attitude. There are ways and ways to deal with what makes you mad, and this is hardly the best one.
Helm, you want me to reconsider my attitude? How did I try to handle this issue initially? I really tried to be polite about it. Read a couple of posts back when some people starting jumping on your case. I defended you. So tell me Helm, what would have been the best way to deal with this? Just shut up, and have you and anyone else who felt like it go off topic? Disregard the work I put into writing the topic post? I really tried to be kind and patient. But then I felt attacked. How would you have handled this differently?
To Nikolas:
First off, I really appreciate the way you intervened in this off-topic debate. It was polite and not-insulting. On top of that, I really appreciate you trying to bring this back on topic. But to address some things you mentioned:
QuoteI've got to say this. From the three of you I got a good impression only from Andail, who he knows how much I love/care about. Helm suddently came onto Joseph (for no apparent reason for me who am here only 6-7 months, but do have 600 posts (not bad at all!)) and Joseph politely, honestly politely answered. Then the whole thing backfired to Joseph and now I don't like the both of you.
Most people know me as well for being a good guy. I mean ask the members who have been here a long time. Ask m0ds, ask CJ, ask Darth Mandarb, ask the majority of people. I am a pretty nice, mature person. I have been around 4 or 5 years, or longer (I really cant remember when CJ began his engine). CJ, in all that time, other than my annoying suggestions, have I ever been rude to anyone or caused trouble?
On top of that Nikolas, I am pretty nice guy when you come down and think about it. How much do you appreciate Insta-Game? A lot, correct? It was a nice thing to be done. Even CJ a while back had a freeware package of graphics he allowed us to use. That was nice too. I made a Simpsons Template, which even though means I RIPPED the graphics, it still took a lot of time to do. About 4 years. And I made the template available for everyone to use, so that people wouldn;t have to rip any graphics, or design their own GUI, or program how the rooms connect to eachother. Thats in ADDITION to the full length game I have been making for years. I did it so that everyone in this community could do such a thing.
And your right, it did backfire on me this whole situation. For the hard work I put in that template, all I get remembered for is something I did over 2 years ago. I am remembered as " The guy who made too many suggestions." I would rather be remembered for the contributions I made, "The guy who made the Simpsons Template." Or even "The Veteran who has been around for a long time." Others I wouldn't mind being remembered for : "The guy who made the GUI Tutorials", or "The guy who was always supportive of others games." or "The Italian Guy". Etc..., there are so many things I can be remembered for, why do people have to remember me for an imperfection I had years ago? Why couldn't Helm, or Andail, and even Squinky (Not that I am particularly mad at Squinky) just remember those things? Its like a selective memory.
QuoteUnfortunately I didn't have the chance to meet Joseph more, but from what it seems he must be also a great guy!
I appreciate you not being close-minded on me based on my stressful situation.
QuoteAnd joseph, I would be pissed also, but then again, when I critisise something I do it with a good heart, open mind and a will to help. This is what you did (from what I can understand), in all your suggestions. Nothing wrong with that really!
And I have also done that in other situations, but I should be grateful that your saying this much after my last explosion. But I appreciate it. Thanks.
QuoteThe only way Helms posts could bother you would be if you felt kinda guilty yourself. After all you, yourself hand picked 12 threads on which you came close to suggesting (or \ctually di suggest). Why is this wrong? Why is it bad?
I dont feel guilty, but remember what I just mentioned to you above? I dont want to be remembered for that when I did other good things. I dont want to be criticized by someone for doing something wrong when I did not do anything wrong? You catch my drift?
QuoteI can't stand seeing a debate and not entering, honestly. Even if it is none of my buisness, it is that I feel that I can help, and budge in! hehe!
Sometimes, its better not to start the debate at all. And, you should never feel that you should enter a debate. Reason: Why stopped the debate, then Andail started it up again, and now look what happened. Better to not enter a debate then.
QuoteTry not to post here for a couple of days. Relax and see what happens.
I understand what your trying to do, but, this was my topic that I started. And the criticism was directed at me. Just like you feel that when you see a debate, you should enter it, I feel that when I see someone saying something about me, I should defend it.
I feel that this Topic will not gather any interest anymore. Right now, I would appreciate CJ to make a reply about all this. I am sorry for being like this, but now I would like to see what he has to say about all this. He will most likely lock this as well, but at this point I lost all interest.
Good lord, leave poor CJ out of this. He makes an adventure game maker, which we all love, you can't expect him to pick sides in your weird little war you have going on here.
I am sorry I labeled you as a star trek guy, after all the years it's easy to mix people up.
One thing I felt I should mention is this: Just because you say in your thread that you don't want the topic of conversation to steer a certain way, dosen't mean people have to. This is the general discussion forum, a little slack is allowed here...You aren't the master of the thread, we all share it....
I hope you aren't angry at me for pointing this out, and I also hope that I don't join your "retard" club...
Enough.
Hm, Eric, I'd like to write some words in my own defense here. The forum won't collapse from some serious arguments once in a while. I do think that this can be talked out, and locking it before giving that a shot will create very strange vibes, I must say.
Joseph, I'm sorry that I caused you so much frustration. I wouldn't have posted if I had known how sensitive this was to you. So, my apologies for that.
Still you have to realise that some things can't be yelled away, or even argued for that matter. If people have a certain image of you, be it one you don't agree on, you can only begin to slowly and steadily work to achieve another image. I'm sorry if I have an image of you that you don't agree on, but the best thing you can to is to accept it, take some wisdom from it and carry on.
I was making an honest observation because I felt it could help you understand Helm's argument. I expressively said that I didn't side with Helm just to stand up for him; on the contrary, I think that he was being a bit rude and hostile.
Now, a few more things.
Firstly, threads develop. You were the one who started it, with a certain topic. It was also you who made a wishlist. So the current course of this thread isn't so much off-topic as threads generally get around here.
Secondly, I'm not retarded. I have worked with retarded people, and I don't appreciate the term being used in the careless and immature manner displayed in your posts.
You are eager, well desperate, not to fit a certain image. Just be careful with the image you're now portraying for future ags-members.
Anyhow, sorry again for the immense frustration my post caused you.
I believe that this thread can still live on without damaging the community spirit too much (even though it's soon christmas), and I hope that people who are allergic to arguments can perhaps look away. I for one believe I have made a pertinent and important reply.
If other moderators think it'd be better to put the lid on again, I will not re-open it.
Thank you and have a nice day.
The topic is a non-discussion, since
A. glumol and scramm were never made.
B. both projects died half a decade ago.
One could argue that one could make a hypothetical comparison, however others are then free say for instance hypothetically AGS could controll an ion canon in space.
Last, since this is the AGS board, a discussion of this matter (comparing AGS with other non-fictional programs) would be, sorry for using this word, biased.
Quote from: Joseph DiPerla on Sat 03/12/2005 20:40:59
I feel that this Topic will not gather any interest anymore. Right now, I would appreciate CJ to make a reply about all this. I am sorry for being like this, but now I would like to see what he has to say about all this. He will most likely lock this as well, but at this point I lost all interest.
Joseph, please stop taking things so seriously.
And Helm, please stop winding him up.
Now, let's all play some Christmas tunes and get on with life.
Okay, I won't wind Joseph diPerla up anymore, only if you promise to implement the following in the next version of ags:
*bloom lighting
*bump-mapping
*lens flare
*pressing the button C in-game will result to an audible cowbell sound-effect
*a Vic20 port
It's a deal!
Suggestions 4 and 5 are already possible, you bum. Get a 1337 artist and a decent coder! ;D
Spoiler
Joke, joke, let's not argue anymore.
Hey everyone. Remember me? The *original* Squinky? Probably not, unless you've been part of the adventure game development scene for a LONG time... or have played my world-famous 2002 hit, Cubert Badbone, P.I.
Anyway, I randomly decided to lurk over from the SLUDGE side, and found this thread. I was actually wondering what happened to all the SCRAMM people a little while ago (after watching Potter's Puppet Pals, and discovering that it was made by Trapezoid, who I remembered from the SCRAMM board... apparently he's some sort of Internet celebrity these days). It was I who posted the infamous splash screenshot of SCRAMM, which everyone thought was photoshopped or something, cementing the popular view that it was fake. (In reality, though, I was in close contact with James Slaughter at one point, and was supposed to be an alpha tester. I'm pretty sure SOME work was done in SCRAMM, but it never got anywhere near alpha mode, most likely because of the overly-ambitious features list...)
But yeah... I had some great times over at that board. I remember when MrColossal was called Brand X and signed his posts with "Long time reader, nth time poster." And there was that Outrageous Evan Courageous guy. And when everyone lost faith in SCRAMM because James Slaughter mysteriously disappeared, someone wrote a parable about people who waited for SCRAMM as opposed to people who started using engines like AGS instead, and it had to do with waiting for the Messiah or something like that. Good times.
I wasn't all that active on the GLUMOL side of things, mainly because by then I'd started tinkering with AGAST. I tried AGS, but it wasn't really my cup of tea. Mind you, this was back when it was completely DOS-based.
Years later, I'm quite impressed at how far AGS has gotten. I'll always be a happy SLUDGE user (seeing as I'm used to it, I have half a game finished in it, I like coding, and I paid for it ages ago), but if I'd gotten introduced to AGS in the state that it is now rather than five years ago, I'd have probably liked it enough to actually use it to make a game.
It's interesting to see that even though SCRAMM and GLUMOL were never made due to their ambitiousness, all the frequently-used adventure game engines of today (AGS, Wintermute, and dear ol' SLUDGE) have feature lists that rise above and beyond what SCRAMM and GLUMOL were supposed to be. There are times when I wish the technology we have today was available all those years ago, and yet, I'm quite certain that had I used my original Cubert Badbone art in a game, it would've scarred people's retinas more than Richard Longhurst and the Box that Ate Time did. (By the way, is Captain Mostly still around?)
Anyway, enough rambling. Back to lurking.
P.S. MrColossal, that guy you mentioned was named WorldMaker.
Old Skool Squinky!
How funny, this thread made me remember you and your disappearance then your come back and then disappearance again!
Of course I remember the "long time reader nth time poster" thing but I especially remember when someone asked me how I counted my posts, a few people responded with various ways that I do it like I have a program that does it for me or I wrote a program to do it for me and I responded "Um, I... Count... With my mind..."
It's good to hear that you're still a part of the adventure game community! I was also wondering "How curious, she made a game, struggled over it with MMF [that is what you used right?] and then never be heard from again." I just didn't feel like someone could wait years for SCRAMM and then disappear from the adventure making community all together. The Game that Takes Place on a Cruise Ship, eh? Rock on.
WorldMaker: He and I discussed the possibilities and problems with a MMO Adventure Game and I think he assumed I wanted to work on it and not just discuss it... I wonder where he is, RPG making forum maybe?
Also, wasn't there an engine called BOT that got renamed to roBOT or something? I briefly remember that appearing in my adventure game engine radar search and then disappearing again.
Eric
Hmm, a textual punch-up without me. It's just not the same. Better do something about this...
AGS, more like fAGS lol
glumol 4eva!!!1
and everyone on this forum is either a retard or a moron except for me. i crown myself "King Awesome!!!"
There. Now the universe feels complete.
Yup, I've always been a part of the adventure game development community. I just tend to have dry spells when it comes to forum posting, is all. These days, I can usually be found at Adventure Developers and the relative inactive SLUDGE forums, and quite rarely on the Adventure Gamers Underground forum. I haven't stopped by here all that much, mainly because I'm not an AGS user, but I do recognize a lot of faces from back in the old days.
Actually, I used SLUDGE for Cubert Badbone, and have been continuing to use it for TGTTPOACS and The Interview. I've never touched MMF in my life... well, actually, I think I may have tried it ONCE, in my search for an engine post-SCRAMM, but that was ages ago.
Yup, I remember BOT/RoBot. I also remember SAGE (which King Super was considering using) and Maker and IndyJava (which I actually tried at some point).
And speaking of WorldMaker, lookie what I found: http://www.2dadventure.com/abstarcia/
I remember touching Indyjava once... It burned me so...
So, how do you like SLUDGE?
Also, anyone else remember Mauve?
This big awkward website that was going to be a game that some people from SCRAMM were making and it made no sense and of course disappeared but it just popped into my head.
SLUDGE is teh awesome. Of course, I'm very very biased because it's the only adventure engine I've been using for the past... er... four years is it? But yeah, it's got everything I could possibly want and need in an adventure game engine. Tim Furnish is even coming out with a new version soon that features anti-aliased sprites, which I'm quite looking forward to.
Only downside is, our community's pretty sparse. We don't really attract all that many n00bs, mainly because most of us SLUDGE veterans are too busy working on our games to write tutorials. (Most people seem to flock to AGS because it's the easiest to use, anyway.) Plus, you gotta pay for the full version of SLUDGE, which ends up discouraging a lot of people from even trying it. (Come to think of it, that's the reason I never used the Opera web browser until it became free. The reason I bought SLUDGE in the first place was because I was a beta tester and got a discount, and because circa 2001, it was probably the most advanced adventure engine that existed.) Also, SLUDGE doesn't really have an IDE; you gotta code everything. Some people, myself included, see this as an advantage, but I can understand that a lot of people love their IDEs and would be a teensy bit scared of an all-coding interface.
Anyway... oh man, Mauve. Yeah, I remember that. And Stouth-Rief/The Lugubrious Game, or whatever it was called. Crazy.
Funny, I get these nursing home vibes when you people speak of the old days.
Remember Harold? Oh, what became of him? I think he joined the navy. And Ethel, do you remember the grand tea-parties she used to throw? Well, I heard she married a gardener. Etc.
EDIT
Here is Tommy Mayer's engine site" http://www.tomkatgames.com/SFCI1.htm
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Yeah I remember original Squinky, Trapezoid. Brings back a lot of memories. By the way, I loved Cubert Badbone!
But you should atleast try making a small 1 hour adventure in AGS. You obviously have what it takes to make a simple game like that. I guarantee that once you do it, you can never go back. I myself am planning on releasing one of my Simpsons games this month and an updated template. After the events in this thread, it made me think of me over the years and decided that, since I was always asking or saying "gimme gimme gimme", that its my turn to give a little more to the community. I apologize in advance if the game sucks, but I should atleast release something.
Here are some more engines to remember and some links:
Edpack: http://web.archive.org/web/20010201071000/http://edpack.pagina.de/
TROIACS: http://www.geocities.com/troiacs/whatis.html
Maker R2-- Do a search on Masterton.de on archive.org
RoBot: http://web.archive.org/web/20020718214748/robot.mixnmojo.com/
Then I remember some other engines from the creator of Sage Classic, I dont remember his name, Tommy Meyer I think. I am not sure.
I started looking at some of the old members of this board too. Man, whatever happened to Erica Mclane?
Yeah, I used IndyJava. Other than AGS, I think the only promising engines were Maker R2 and EdPack.
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On a side note... I wish to apologize for my Reactions. I guess I was just upset at the way people viewed me. Its not the way I wanted to be viewed. I am sorry for any trouble caused. As far as name calling... It was an emotional reaction of the moment. And I no way meant the Retard to be offensive to anyone outside or inside this community. Please find it in your hearts to forgive me for that. Helm, Andail, and everyone else, I wish to apologize and hope we can rebuild our relationship in this community. I really wish what happened in this thread will not allow anyone here to think negatively or immaturely of me. Thank you all for continuing this topic. And again, I am very sorry for the trouble. It was in now way my intention. I just have a lot going on in my personal life...
You people are making me feel like some sort of clone....
Quiet Squinky Mk. II!
I should never have created you! Inferior in every way!
You gave him an eye that doesn't work. What kind of creator are you? :)
Quote from: Joseph DiPerla on Thu 08/12/2005 00:13:02
I started looking at some of the old members of this board too. Man, whatever happened to Erica Mclane?
The first rule of AGS Forums is you don't talk about missing members!"
...cause it makes me sad. After like a year after her last disapearance, I bumped an oooold thread here, on her birthday, saying that we missed her, but it happened to be in a post that was entitled "I'm Back" by Erica McClane, from when she previously left and returned (years back) ... and then everyone thought she currently returned, and posted "welcome back messages" for someone that wasn't really here. Oooh, did I feel bad.
When I see missing members, or lack seeing them, I feel worried. Especially if they dont post a goodbye post. Makes me wonder if they are ok and still interested in some of us.
Erica was cool. I miss her contributions to this community.
Oh and Squinky II, dont worry, we appreciate you. We accept you as the official Squinky. Just not the original.
Anyone heard from Tommy mayer recently though?
Squinky is a pretty commom name/nickname. There's a third squinky who hangs out in the original #monkey-island IRC channel, or he used to. He is completely different from you two.
Keep in mind that on google search results for "squinky", mark II's website comes before Deirdra/sludge/squinky mark I's.
Our squinky (aka Squinky Mrk II: The Revenge) is the coolest! :=
Are you SURE about that, Edmundo? (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=squinky&btnG=Google+Search&meta=") (And I think I remember you... you used to be Netmonkey, right?)
Haha, I remember the #monkey-island Squinky. Yeah, it IS a pretty common nickname, which is why I don't always use it anymore. Then again, back in 1999 when I first started using the moniker "Squinky", it was somewhat more unique. Fit my personality quite well, after all.
I meant: http://sylpher.com/squinkyproductions/ But it turns out that it's 404'ed. Squinky Dos, check your site. (Edit: Weird, it seems that the link is gone. what did you do?!)
Yep, I am the artist formerly known as netmonkey himself. In fact, if you click on my profile, you'll see that my username is... netmonkey. I remember when Cubert used to be in color! Did you ever hang out on IRC?
Hah, Indy Java. I remember that, I was even going to learn to use it rather than AGS back in the days... I'm lucky I didn't. I remember there was a game that started in a house that was floating on the sky. The main character had pink skin (and I think the same guys who made that game made Otto Experiment or whatwasit). The game looked very nice though, and it inspired me to try IndyJava. Turned out I couldn't program at all, so eventually I moved to AGS.
I also remember roBOT, but I never really used it.
Yup, I was on IRC, albeit mostly in #scramm. That's one of the ways I got to speak to James Slaughter personally, after all.
I did poke my head into #monkey-island a fair bit, though. Mind you, I mostly came on during the time before the other Squinky showed up, which was why I could always secure the name "Squinky". And then one day, I visited #monkey-island after a LONG time, probably post-SCRAMM, only to discover that I couldn't use "Squinky" anymore, because someone had taken it...
Edmundo's got my back....
While I do realize that another squinky was here first (many years ago, at least 4) I have always used squinky as my nick. I have never used anything else, ever.
I got the name from Monkey Island when Guybrush is talking to the blind lighthouse operator, and one of the dialog options is "Hi my name is squinky" or something like that. I've always though that was funny, and have been using the name in various places on the internet since I was about sixteen, and since I am nearing my thirties in a couple years, it's been awhile.
Just so people know I didn't steal the name, it's just a crazy coincidence. I have actaully been contacted on msn a couple of times by some skater kid that always starts with "You stole my name dude!" since he, obviously has the same name.
Fair enough, doppelganger. I'm twenty and have been using the name since I was... *thinks* ...thirteen, meaning that if we consider all things outside Adventure Game Development Land, you predate me.
I got the name from the EXACT SAME PLACE, too. The actual dialogue option was "Call me Squinky." (which I know because I used the phrase as an e-mail address at some point) And then you could say "Actually, my name is Guybrush Threepwood." and then the lookout said something along the lines of "What a ridiculous name. It's the only one I've heard that's more ridiculous than Squinky." Oh, how I love you, Monkey Island!
Joseph: no worries
Squinky: I remember you, you were memorizing π and writing fun music. You called AGS ugly or something back in the day over msn was it? ICQ? Back then we might have been using ICQ.
That's right, Helm. I did call AGS ugly, but that was back when it WAS ugly. Now, it's not ugly at all. In fact, it's kind of pretty. :)
And yeah, we probably were talking on ICQ. Oh man, I haven't used that in ages. Everyone's either on MSN or AIM nowadays...
I use Trillian, which incorporates ICQ MSN and AIM.
Man CoveredinSludge, I wish you would consider porting one of your old games to the AGS engine. I find that you would really enjoy it.
And AGS is not kinda pretty. Its Freaking GORGEOUS!
[joke]Boy Joe, keep up the hero worship and CJ just might have to implement that 'Joseph Diperla is WINNAR' feature in the next AGS! You know, the feature that automatically makes an entire game AND provides you with hot cocoa and free sex?[/joke]
1. I looked at SLUDGE, liked the hardware acceleration support but didn't like something about it...I can't remember what.
2. I looked at AGS, liked the gui and ease of use but didn't like not having hardware acceleration and full directx support.
3. I gawped at rpgmaker 2000's inability to really do anything cool in the way of battles.
4. ...so I made my own engine with all the features I wanted and stopped development at 95%. Oh great, now I'm depressed. ;|
LOL Progz...
No, I am not worshiping AGS or CJ. Just gotta admit, for one guy, he did an amazing Job. And he never looks for glory or money. Something rare in people.
PS: I wont get offended anymore guys. You dont have to add [joke] [/joke] lines anymore. If you are joking, just add a smiley face and I will know. Sorry for scaring you guys like that.
[joke]Really?[/joke]
[joke]Are you serious[/joke]
lol ;D ;D
I can't help it... I'm sorry if I have offended anyone. ;D ;D ;D
moderators: Feel free to erase this stupid post!
No, thats ok ;D , It was just a joke :P
Hehe, I use Trillian too. I only use my MSN and AIM accounts on it, because like I said, everyone uses those anyway. I haven't signed into my ICQ account in a LONG time...
Joseph, would porting any of my existing games to AGS really make a difference? Feature-wise, SLUDGE and AGS are just about equal; I probably wouldn't end up adding anything extra except... footstep sounds, maybe? Also, I'd still be reaching the same audiences; both engines are made for Windows, of course, and AGS has a Linux engine while SLUDGE runs perfectly in WINE.
I conclude that Cubert Badbone would be too much effort, and TGTTPOACS would be even more so, considering that I'm not even done the SLUDGE version - which requires a lot of crazy scripting as it is. If I were to port something, it would probably be The Interview (TGTTPOACS's demo); however, I'm not a big fan of reinventing the wheel. If I ever have time to try out AGS, I'll make a whole 'nother game with it. And considering how long I take to do things and how much of a perfectionist I am, it would probably have to be a pretty darn short game.
ProgZMax, SLUDGE doesn't have hardware acceleration support (at least not that I know of). You might be thinking of WME or AGAST. However, despite that, SLUDGE does have a really fast, clean feel to it, which I've always liked.
Worth a shot ;D Trying to convert everyone to AGS is a goal of mine... Err... Not that there is anything wrong with the other engines.
Ah, so that's what I didn't like about SLUDGE, I knew there was something. AGAST was the one I was thinking about but the design aspect looked rather messy.
I tried Sludge. I just dont know why I cant get used to it. Even Wintermute. I couldn't get used to the interface or something.
The features both those engine have are nice, but I just never got a handle over them. AGS has always worked for me.