The annual AGS awards debate

Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens · Thu 09/10/2008 03:59:21

I don't agree, really, but that's the great thing about being individuals. I am 100% with LimpingFish that authors should submit their own games if they want recognition. I see no reason why the awards should be for someone who doesn't care whether their games are included or not and doesn't recognize the award, and no one has said anything so far to sufficiently explain why this is wrong or an otherwise bad idea for a community activity.

At any rate, I'm not going to pursue a circular discussion without any reasonable resolution, much like 90% of internet disagreements where everyone thinks they are absolutely right and everyone else is wrong...

TheJBurger · Thu 09/10/2008 04:37:19

Here's how I see it:

The AGS awards--while being a community activity--are here to acknowledge AGS games that have performed above and beyond the contenders, whether those games were made exclusively for the AGS community or not. The game's database just seems like a necessary requirement to catalog all the contenders and archive the entire process.

SSH · Thu 09/10/2008 10:50:23

Quote from: ProgZmax on Thu 09/10/2008 03:59:21
At any rate, I'm not going to pursue a circular discussion without any reasonable resolution, much like 90% of internet disagreements where everyone thinks they are absolutely right and everyone else is wrong...

Indeed, and in the end its only my opinion that matters

Ishmael · Thu 09/10/2008 10:54:18

I second ProgZmax and LimpingFish, that it's a community activity anyway, and should only cover this community. The AGS website is basically about the community too. If an author wants to take part, possibly win an award, they should at least show that little recognition to the community of adding their game themselves. After all, AGS boils down to a community effort. Though CJ's coding it by himself, without the community around him it wouldn't be what it is today, I dare guess.

SSH · Thu 09/10/2008 15:01:35

Anyone got an idea of how to TELL who put it in the DB? I think another level of nomination is unworkable unnecessary red tape. Its hard enough getting enough people to vote or nominate as it is. Lets see if we can get either into triple figures this year for the first time!

Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens · Thu 09/10/2008 15:46:16

I don't think any additional effort on your part is required beyond using the same 'for your consideration' thread you did before, except the authors of the games who want to be eligible should make a small post in that thread to indicate their interest in the awards rather than just anyone. This also spares you the effort of looking up all the 2008 games

.

SSH · Thu 09/10/2008 17:09:26

The database already knows the games from 2008. Trawling through a thread is more work than a database query. Also, what happens if someone else submits a game in the FYC thread?

Sorry, I don't actually want answers to these questions. I am doing it the same way as before. The AGS Awards are for all AGS games no matter how involved ppl are in the forums. I'm not going to exclude anyone just becuase they maybe didn't read the right forum threads or stopped coming to the forums or any number of reasons why they might not submit to FYC. It sounds like some people have a vendetta against some individuals who they guess are not going to enter their games. If their game is good enough to get the votes, it will win. Being part of the community will get more voters to vote for you, no doubt, so therefore community members already have an advantage.

LimpingFish · Fri 10/10/2008 23:03:33

Well then, pretty much a pointless thread, wasn't it? A heads up next year, so we don't waste our time, would be nice.

SSH · Sat 11/10/2008 23:15:49

Well, I never asked if it would be a good idea to add a further layer of complexity to the voting process. I did ask about categories and there's been a useful discussion there. I've taken on board a number of points, and probably will skip the remake/parody section, now, for example. Similarly the IRC ceremony. Because I didn't like your suggestions doesn't mean the whole thread was a waste of time.

LimpingFish · Sat 11/10/2008 23:50:21

Quote from: SSH on Thu 02/10/2008 11:43:38
1. Is the nomination system OK?

I thought that meant it was open for debate. But, regardless of the debate, you seemed to have made up your mind from the outset and announced the discussion closed.

Quote from: SSH
Sorry, I don't actually want answers to these questions. I am doing it the same way as before.

So in the end, it was a pointless question. I wouldn't have bothered offering my suggestions if they were already considered void.

And I realize this makes me look argumentative and petty, which is the real reason I'm annoyed. Bah.

I never said I wanted to exclude anybody, just put a little more responsibility on potential nominees, from inside or outside the community. I still don't see how this could be considered a bad thing.

Talk of vendettas or some form of elitism is a bit much. I only used Yahtzee's award record vs his total lack of involvement in the process to illustrate my point. I couldn't give a fiddler's fug about his personal reasons for doing so.

SSH · Sun 12/10/2008 18:18:45

hmmm, i see what you mean. I havent ignored your arguments in the issue, but they're not compelling for me. I hadnt decided to keep it the same at the start of this thread, but I wasnt convinced by anyone's ideas for changing the process.

And Yahtzee did send me his Trilby .CHA file for the awards ceremony this year, so he's not entirely disinterested.

LimpingFish · Sun 12/10/2008 18:20:28

Fair enough.

Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens · Sun 12/10/2008 21:01:48

I want to know more about this fiddler's fug.

SSH · Mon 20/10/2008 17:41:58

I'd appreciate comment on this mockup of a nominations page. Please comment on the page practicality, etc. rather than "I thought you were going to do category X", and so on, since ITS A MOCKUP.

cat · Mon 20/10/2008 17:57:24

Huh, wow, on first view it looks quite confusing.

How are the games determined which are available for nomination and thus will have their own row on this page?

SSH · Mon 20/10/2008 18:00:37

Quote from: cat on Mon 20/10/2008 17:57:24
How are the games determined which are available for nomination and thus will have their own row on this page?

*sigh* read the thread...

Games which appear in this page will be eligible. i.e. any game submitted to the AGS Games DB between 1 Jan 2008 and 31 Dec 2008.

cat · Mon 20/10/2008 18:04:42

Ok, I was confused because there are quite a lot games released in a year. So I thought this would be too much for your layout and that there would be some filtering before. Sorry.

SSH · Mon 20/10/2008 18:19:01

So far there are 12 demo games, roughly 10 non-adventures and the rest are 50/50 short/long. So given 100-odd games in 10 months, we should expect 120-130 in 12 months. Which makes about 50 max rows in one table. I think that will be OK.

Hopefully we can order the rows Randomly for each voter so no game has an advantage by being first or last or in the middle.

MRollins · Mon 20/10/2008 18:46:04

I like it. I think it's pretty simple once you look at it and it's all on one page.

Makeout Patrol · Mon 20/10/2008 18:50:05

I think it works well, but I think it could easily get out of hand with 50 rows in a table. I think that you should repeat the list of categories every 5 - 10 rows just to make it a bit easier to read. It might also be prudent to put each table on a separate page, but I'm not sure how important that would be without looking at the whole gigantic list.