Biting off more than I can chew. Sound familiar?

[Nightfable]

Ok. Where do I start?

I've been working on and off on my first adventure game since 2004 (100+ backgrounds) and have only 2 and a half backgrounds and a couple of sprites to show for it - I know, it's horrible!! Most of you will say this is a fairly ambitious undertaking of someone who has never really dabbled in any real AGS scripting/programming before and I agree. I'm the kind of person who loves starting projects but never gets around to finishing them, I think too big and way too far ahead for my own good. I hardly have any time to myself with two young daughters to take care of at home, let alone time for my AGS game-making.

After reading quite a few threads about making games for a beginner, I understand that my game is too much for me to chew right now and that at the rate it's going - it'll take me well over fifty years to finish. I would need a team of to actually go somewhere with this game and right now I have nothing much to show for it. I must seem pretty lame to you guys, I feel ashamed for not being able to produce the great epic game I have in mind.

Alright, enough wallowing! So, I need to make a small game that I can actually FINISH for starters; that sounds great but it brings me to the drawing board once again. I need to go for something really simple but at the same time entertaining. Start with 5 rooms? Ok! I can do that!!

Now here goes...

I have two daughters at home, the oldest is 20 months old and the youngest just turned 3 months old. I love drawing cute characters with bright colorful and pastel tones. I also like the Gothic feel of games like Spooks or A Vampyre Story. What do you guys think of creating a small game about a fairy tale? Something I could entertain my girls with in a few years. Maybe an adventure with a main female character who has to overcome a couple of conflicts?

I really want to be able to finish a game, and maybe one day I can undertake Robots of Dawn.

Where do I start though? Do I start with plot, backgrounds, sprites, script, map, puzzles, GUI? It's all so overwhelming.

Thanks in advance.

[Radiant]

Wow, an Asimov game would be cool. But yes, a lot of work as well. And it's hard to stay focused on a big project...

Although there are many approaches, I think you should start with a plot outline, that tells where the game starts and ends, and what to do in between. This should include a map and short descriptions of the locations and characters, as well as the idea of most of the puzzles (you can always add more puzzles later if you get ideas in mid-progress).

From there, take whatever you like best. Good at backgrounds? Start with those. Good with sprites? Do that instead. Complete at least one fully, and then go to another, or another area if you prefer. Small chunks are best.

If you have at least one room complete, you can do some preliminary scripting. Draw in hot spots and walkable areas, and add some responses for clicking on those hot spots. If (like me) you're bad at art, use MS Paint to scribble in all the rooms and start with the scripting.

If you haven't used AGS before, I'd suggest using the standard Sierra'esque GUI that comes with it, and drawing over the graphics.

Once you have something to show, people on this forum can be found to help you with whatever you're stuck at.

[Nightfable]

Small chunks, eh? I can do that. I will try not to get too carried away this time and stick to my small game. 

Thank you so much for your reply Radiant - I really needed that!

See you guys in the Critic Lounge!

[LimpingFish]

We all want our first game to be epic, and we all usually start out planning it as such.

When you realize that you've set the bar way too high, it can be very depressing and really dampen any creative enthusiasm you might otherwise have had. It certainly happened to me.

I first dabbled with AGS in 2002 and it took me four years to release my first game, a game which be completed in under an hour(!).

Some people have been at it longer, and still haven't released a finished game.

I wouldn't be so hard on myself, especially as you have real world responsibilities to occupy your time and any free time you have is well-earned and valuble.

Definitely start with a short game, and something that appeals to you, not what you think other people will want to play, something you'll enjoy making.  A bit here, a bit there. No rush. You'll get there eventually.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

If you're going to go with a small project then for heaven's sake make something that excites you!.  Don't worry about other people, just focus on what you enjoy most about a game, what you enjoy most in a story, your favorite timeline, and just sit down and build a game from your favorite elements.  This will keep you interested for a longer period of time, especially when you're not worrying if people will like it or not.  Make it personal, and if you want to release it later go ahead.  Avoiding existing material will also help you because then there are no expectations you need to live up to aside from your own.  If making a free game isn't fun for you then there's absolutely no point in making one, remember that.  Just find an idea that excites you and design a game you can manage without having to spend a ridiculous amount of time on it.

[Grundislav]

Another thing you could consider doing is breaking your game up into a series of short episodes.  This way, you can make an epic story if you want, but only have to worry about doing one chapter each time, which makes development a lot easier.

As Progz said, focus on making your game something you would want to play if you hadn't been the designer.

[auriond]

Thirding what Prog and Grundislav have said. If you want to make a game, you've got to be at least a little narcissistic - you've got to be your own biggest fan, anyway.

That, and work on it whenever you have free time. Even if it's just 15 mins. It does help!

[Nightfable]

Oh wow, I'm speechless.  :o

Radiant,
LimpingFish,
ProgZmax,
Grundislav
Auriond...

Thank you all for the very helpful advice - especially from such professional game makers whom I look up to!!!

I know game making can take a very long time, I'm still waiting for the AGD Interactive remake of Quest for Glory: Trial by Fire to come out. It's been over six years hasn't it? I guess it takes as long as it needs to, I'm definitely going for a shorter game this time around.

[Sparky]

I do thoroughly approve of putting Robots of Dawn on hold, much as I liked seeing your progress. Those sprites are tops! But there's only so much one can do at once (unfortunately). I like your '5 rooms' idea. But I'd start smaller- do a thoroughly unintimidating one-room game with only one character, just for the sake of finishing something! Then when you're done it will be even easier to approach a 5 room adventure with confidence.

I just had to make a similar decision myself. It was painful to put my in-progress adventure on the shelf. But I'm back in school and I temporarily don't have the time...

[Play_Pretend]

Heh...unreachable epic games...I know *completely* where you're coming from.  "Henchman" was my first game project, and I spent a year obsessed with writing down plot ideas, working on the art and learning the programming language, until I was losing so much sleep and my legs almost felt like they were dying from lack of use.   Then, after a year of 8-9 hour nights of working on my wonderful epic game, my relationship with my girlfriend almost crashed, and bam, I abandoned it in favor of real life and love.

Ironically, halfway through all that time I got burnt out on it at one point, took a break and spent only one month making Chicken VS Road, which turned out to be a pretty nice hit with people...it's essentially a one room game with simple animations, but people liked the humor, I think.  So you really don't  have to make a huge, epic game for it to be popular or fun.  Look at how freakin' awesome "Gesundheit" is!

Now that another year has gone by, I've got about a dozen or so 1/3-finished epic or halfway-epic games on my computer, because I kept going, "Why?  Why kill myself to make this huge game for no profit?"  I'd lose interest every time and drop the project.  Then I read something online about making comics, and how even if you get famous, you'll never be rich doing it, so any time you create, it *has* to be a labor of love, making something you genuinely care about and excites you.  This finally made something click in my head, so I've picked up the ball on Henchman again (no further In Production threads until I'm damn close to the end, though, that's a lesson almost every AGSer needs to learn )  I love the idea of my game, so I know now I'm going to make it happen, and am even paying some good cash to help make it come true!.  So don't give up, kiddo, there's *always* a way to make a game you care about, even if it takes a long time.  A five room fairy tale game sounds wonderful, and since it's for little kids, you wouldn't even need complicated plots or puzzles, or really complex graphics.

Oh, and something to help you feel like you're making progress and have a plan - I like to write down a list of all my backgrounds, characters and necessary animations in Word.  Then as I complete each one, I highlight it in bold, so as time goes on I can see how much I've accomplished and how much further I have to go.  It really helps.

Good luck, and if you need a sounding board for ideas (I know fairy tales in and out! ) or help with scripting problems, I'd be happy to message with you anytime you need it.  Cheers!

[SSH]

Also note that it will probably be very easy for you to find someone to do the coding for you if you do the graphics. There are way more AGSers who can't draw but can program than vice versa. Plus as a female, male teenagers will happily do your bidding anyway.

[DeviantGent]

I know PRECISELY the feeling you describe, NF. And I have a course of action that may do you the world of good.

Ever heard of Reality-on-the-Norm? It's an open source ongoing series of AGS games that anyone can chip in to. Many of this community's veterans (Yahtzee, Grundislav, Creed Malay, Dave Gilbert) got their start by releasing a RON game (or several). And with a huge selection of already-drawn backgrounds, objects and characters, plus a rich backstory to tap into, it really is a fantastic place to start if you're looking to release a simple AGS game to get the feel for the whole process.

Check it out at http://ron.the-underdogs.info, I really think it's what you're looking for.

[The Ivy]

Hey Nightfable, glad you liked my game.

I think a short project might be just the right thing to get you started with AGS. When I started Spooks I set myself a five background maximum. Although the project ended up with about three times that many, I think starting small kept it on target.

I really like the idea of a gothic fairy tale (or something not quite so dark). I would recommend not setting any time deadlines for yourself, as you'll only feel frustrated if you don't make them. Just spend a few days doing sketches of characters and settings and whatnot and see what you come up with. I'm curious to see as well.