Wanted: Someone to take over the AGS AWARDS/AGS ACADEMY

[m0ds]

Bah! It's coming! Like a young lady riding her Italian Stallion.

m0ds

[DGMacphee]

I should explain something.

Yahtzee isn't the main and major reason why I'm giving this away.

However, his comments were the straws that broke my back.

But to explain the main reason in a very simple way: I no longer have the time nor energy.


As for Kandyman's relation with Yahtzee, I doubt that makes a significant difference.

Yahtzee has expressed his desire to not be a part of this community.

If he releases the odd AGS game, I'm sure it will go through the same process as all other games do.

I trust Kandyman's judgement and have complete faith in him.

However, I think it would also help to have a second person on board to lighten the workload.

If Mods wants to share the work, I'm all for it.

After all, his suggestion on AGDzine inspired me to start the awards.

I think it's fitting he should be a large part of it.


All I can say, guys, is make it grow.

[Andail]

Usually, I would gladly administer a project like this one, being a natural born project worker, but since I intend to win all the next AGS-awards it would be a bit awkward.

Kandyman will surely manage fine

[DGMacphee]

I wrote in the General forum that the AGS Dictionary is yours Andail, seeing as how it is more you project than mine.

Develop it and make it grow too.

[Matt Brown]

oh..haha...I forgot all about those AGS dictionary thingees I wrote a little while ago. I'll add on to them a bit more and show them to you Andail if you are interested...

[jannar85]

So Daniel...
The reason for giving it away, is among Yahtzee's comment?
Geez... Don't listen to him. You're doing a great job with it.

Congrats anyway K!

DGMacPhee:  "Mods, I'm sorry, you just don't fit all the requirements."

Mods: "Why?  What was I lacking?"

DGMacPhee: "You're just not, well, not what we're looking for.  It takes a kind of persona..."

Mods:  "You must tell me!  How could I change?"

DGMacPhee: "You're just not drunk enough... there, I said it... Are you happy?" <DGMacPhee runs crying from the room>

Mods:  (now screaming)  "I can change!  I can drink!"

Lol!

[DGMacphee]

No, it wasn't mainly Yahtzee.

He was just the final small step in making me give it away.

There's other things -- Personal things in real life.

Looking back, I'll just say that if it wasn't Yahtzee's comments, something else would have made me give it up.

He's not a completely bad person.

I think he just needs to be a bit more thoughtful when he writes.

It's sad to see such talent go to waste.

[Barcik]

Right... sorry to bump this old thing up, but with the end of the year coming closer and Kandy becoming a very scrace sight, I'm just wondering whether there will be no unexpected problems when the Awards arrive.

[Evil]

That reminds me, I need to make a game so I can win something. I WONT LEAVE YOU TIL I WIN SOMETHING!!1 So, should we start a list of awards now just in case?

[taryuu]

i second nellies suggestion.  i miss the zine.

and what comments did yahtzee make?

[SSH]

I'm just wondering whether there will be no unexpected problems when the Awards arrive.

I don't expect there to be any unexpected problems, otherthan organising the spontaneous applause  

[DGMacphee]

Yes, I have noticed this, and I haven't even sent out any site info to KANDY or M0ds.

Bugger it.

I'll do the bloody awards again -- but don't expect any mention on it until December.

M0ds, you can help me organise it if you want.

P.S. I'm not pissed at Yahtzee -- My attitude at the time was "He's won an award, why couldn't he just be humble about it, instead of sneaking a jab or two?" and now I couldn't care less. Besides, he still makes a good game.

Cheers!

[Evil]

I'll be willing to take over it next year if nobody else does. Hopefully by then people will trust me enough doing it.

[GarageGothic]

Maybe this is the wrong time and place, but what do people think of the current award categories? I haven't been present for either of the past awards, but reading the lists of winners and nominees, I see some great injustices.

Most important, I really think we should distinguish between short and long games, the same way that the Oscars have separate categories for feature films, short subjects, animation and documentaries (in the early days they used to have separate awards for dramas and comedies, but I wouldn't go that far). It's much easier to come up with three innovative puzzles than 50 ("6 Day Assassin" anyone?) in the same way that it's easier to draw five superb backgrounds than 30 or 40.

Also, seeing the huge amount of fan games in progress, I think there should be some modifications in the writing categories for games "adapted from other material" - I'd really hate to see Tierra win a "best story" award for QFG2 VGA (I do however respect KQ2VGA for the vast improvement) or a best character award going to the FOY team for Indiana Jones.

Just my two cents.

[MrColossal]

sheesh i get it, you don't like 6DA

and if a short game is chosen to win those categories over longer games then is it the system's fault for not seperating or the people's choice?

just asking, not fussin' and a feuding

[Barcik]

GG, this has already been discussed and dismissed before the previous awards...

[Andail_unplugged]

I'm glad to hear DG will arrange it this year too...

About the categories, yeah I see some problems with them too, but it's more or less a product of the people - if people are more easily impressed by short and fancy-looking games than long games with not so appealing art or puzzles etc, then there's nothing to do about it really.

When it comes to 6 day:s assassin...well, it was even nominated for best plot, which I think is more or less absurd...but if it's the people's choice, than sure...
Now I do believe 6DA won some graphics and puzzles award instead, which I have no problems with at all

LEt's all remember it's all for the fun of it, and we don't win any money anyway

[SSH]

I think there should be awards in the following categories:

Best game-as-a-present-for-someone
Most cute game
Best non-use of walkcycles
Best opening sequence featuring scrolling star-wars style text

in which case, I might win some!

[DGMacphee]

Great injustices??

It's not flippin' apartheid -- It's a game awards ceremony!

As for long and short categories, I've stated this before -- It's impossible and time-consuming (We've already tried).

Firstly, how do you define the different between a long game and a short game?

Granted, I know there's a difference between KQVGA remake and Red Flagg, but what about the games closer to the mark?

Do we define a long game as over a certain amount of rooms, say 20? What if a 1 room game has more hours of play than a 20 room game (and this is possible)?

Conversely, do we define a game by playing time? If so, how do we measure it exactly?

What about puzzles? Number of characters? Objects? How exactly do you distinguish long and short?

Here lies the problem.

There are two options I can take:

1. Divide the categories into long and short, based upon number of rooms, characters, objects, and puzzles -- But this would lead to complaints from people that make one aspect (say, puzzles) larger than another aspect (say, rooms).

2. Include them all into the same categories -- I think this is a better option because adventure games are still a means of artistic expression, despite size, and also they do not have a definitive measurement, like the time length of films.

(Also, as a side point, I don't ever remember the Oscars having seperate categories for comedies and drama, except in music scoring about 6-7 years ago (However, this category only lasted for a few years -- they've scrapped it about 2-3 years ago) -- You're thinking of the Golden Globes, which still have seperate Comedy and Drama categories) (BTW, spot the Oscar nut )

As for saying you KQ2VGA doesn't deserve the award for best story, I disagree -- The story was revamped by Tierra and a lot of the elements were more closely integrated (And face facts: The story in the original KQ2 was crap).

Tierra's version improved upon the original in so many ways that it is now a new game.

However, I am mindful of plagiarism, and detest it greatly, which is why I will add a resolution to disqualify anyone using story stolen from someone else.

(BTW, did you notice that KQ1VGA wasn't nominated for story?)

As for Indy winning for FOY in the possible future, why the hell not? -- Indy's acting in it and if Indy does a good job that the Community likes then he deserves his award.

Remember, the character awards are awarded to the characters -- even though I send the award to the game developers, I ask them to "pass the award to the proper recipient"

As a final point on such "injustices": as Eric said, it's the people's choice -- Although I may seem a little dictorial when it comes to the categories, ultimately it is up to the COMMUNITY to decide what games should win best games, etc -- As far as I can see, the Community has voted very well.

I hope this has been cleared up, so no one thinks there are any more great "injustices".

P.S. Even though 6DA's story was short, I felt it was a very strong and tense story for such a short game -- I'm guessing a lot of people felt this way, judging by their votes.

[GarageGothic]

Jeez, this was apparently a sensitive subject. I'd love to say that we shouldn't take it so seriously. As Andail said: "it's all for the fun of it, and we don't win any money anyway". But still, it is the one time of the year when we collectively show our appreciation for the truly excellent games, and I think it deserves the respect of a solid discussion.

First of all, I apologize to those I offended - MrColossal in particular, I wasn't attacking his game, but rather questioning the system. I wasn't aware that this had been discussed before. It was just some thoughts that came up when I looked through the lists of previous years.

Great injustices?? It's not flippin' apartheid -- It's a game awards ceremony!

Ok, wrong choice of words, so I'm a drama queen. I merely meant that in my opinion, some of the awards (as well as nominations) were unfair.

I don't ever remember the Oscars having seperate categories for comedies and drama, except in music scoring about 6-7 years ago

I did say "in the early days", so I don't suppose you WOULD remember it, unless you are VERY old I was thinking of the first Academy Awards ceremony back in 1929, when they had separate "Best Director, Comedy Picture" and "Best Director, Dramatic Picture" awards.

sheesh i get it, you don't like 6DA

I have nothing against 6 Day Assassin. It's a nice little game without pretention, and it has a killer premise (no pun intended). It's not the game's fault, nor MrColossal's, that it's become one of the most over-hyped AGS games. I'm happy for you that it got on a magazine cover-cd, and I hope it'll bring more attention to AGS. But I do think it's a problem, if people play it, thinking it's the ultimate AGS game, realize it's shorter than most demos and say "screw AGS!" It's the gap between the expectations and the actual game that bothers me, not the game itself, which I'd really like to see a sequel to.

and if a short game is chosen to win those categories over longer games then is it the system's fault for not seperating or the people's choice?

You REALLY don't want to get me started about democracy, trust me Of course you are right, people's choices are their own, and you can't keep anyone for voting for their friends (or themselves), or voting for the same game in all categories, just because they liked the gameplay.
But I do think it could be made clearer what the awards are given for. I'm not even sure what Dialogue Scripting covers. Is it just the writing quality of the lines, or does it include the structure, the choices and as such "scripting" in the programming as well as the screenplay sense?

It's very difficult to compare short and long games. What is it we're looking for? Does a long game with five excellent and twenty average puzzles rate lower than a short game with three excellent puzzles? Should graphics be judged without taking the amount or the work put in it into consideration? In that case, we could reduce the backgrounds category to a "best single screenshot" award.
I could easily see myself voting Conspiracy of Songo for best background art. It's certainly not perfect, and it nearly put me off the game. If it had been a single or two-room game, I would never have taken it into consideration. But with the amount of rooms and consistency of style, it's one of the most professional looking games of the year. But there's little chance it would happen with games like Apprentice out there.

Unless we make some proper definitions of what to take into consideration, everyone will just make up their own. This isn't just the case with length, but also with different techniques and styles. If some people are voting for "prettiest art" while others are voting "artwork most fitting to the atmosphere of the story" (Norman Cooks could easily win for both, so no complaints there), things are getting confused. Clear categories and definitions would solve a lot of my personal issues with the current award system.

Back to the matter of size (don't let them tell you that size doesn't matter ), I've realized the main problem - distiguishing between short and long games is bound to create the idea that one is better than the other. If only because the more important awards are given at the end of the ceremony. And that's not the purpose. The idea is to let the games be judged on their own terms. This goes for all the short games, which would never be able to compete against the monster-size titles of Tierra.

What I suggest is that we look at the way animation is handled at the Oscars. They have a separate category, BUT the can be nominated for the regular awards, if they are good enough.

It would mean the addition of a "Best short game" category, which would allow the best titles of that format to be acknowledged. Defining long and short games could be solved easily by letting the designers choose which category the game belongs to themselves. There would be little to be gained from putting a longish game in the short category (only more work). And a short game nominated in the long category would obviously have some difficulties competing, unless it truly was among the best.

Short games would still be able to compete in all other categories, but they would have to be judged taking the length of the game into consideration (a game like Apprentice could easily win in the animation category despite it's length, after all, it has as much of it as most longer games, and of a very high quality).

As for saying you KQ2VGA doesn't deserve the award for best story, I disagree

I DIDN'T SAY THAT! I said that "I'd really hate to see Tierra win a "best story" award for QFG2 VGA" (which is plotwise, according to themselves, more or less unchanged from the original), adding - to prevent any misunderstandings, but apparently I wasn't clear enough - "I do however respect KQ2VGA for the vast improvement" (meaning that I respect their awards).

As for Indy winning for FOY in the possible future, why the hell not? -- Indy's acting in it and if Indy does a good job that the Community likes then he deserves his award. Remember, the character awards are awarded to the characters -- even though I send the award to the game developers, I ask them to "pass the award to the proper recipient"

Ok, point taken. I wasn't aware of this distinction. I figured the "Story and character" awards were all writing awards.

BTW, did you notice that KQ1VGA wasn't nominated for story?

I just figured that was because KQ1 has a crappy story

All this said, I'd like to suggest one change to the awards, which I think is very valid. And that is to add a "Best Speech Pack" award (or just "Best Voice Acting", as some games include the speech in the main download). Aside from making the sound category more equal between speech and non-speech games, it would also bring more attention to the actual sound effects and ambient sounds, a truly underrated part of amateur games.

Edit: When was the English translation for Mourir en Mer done? I'm curious because the game had no nominations in the 2002 awards which is quite puzzling. If the translation was released in 2003, could the game be nominated again for this year's awards?