What do you want to see in an AGS game?

[CodeJunkie]

I don't know if anybody else is in the same position, but I've spent a long long time now sketching out little rooms and concepts, trying to think of a plot that will hold and good puzzles, and it just isn't working.  After some consideration, I thought maybe it's best to ask what you want to play for some inspiration.  What I'm looking for is just some idea of what sort of adventure game you like.  Lots of people liked the DeFoe quadrilogy - what scares you about horror games?  If you like fantasy or medieval or anything, why?  What do you hope to gain when you download an AGS game?  Any help is greatly appreciated, my ideas really are running dry.

[ManicMatt]

I would like you to make something that YOU wanted to make, not I.

What do you want to see in an AGS game? Don't worry if it's all been done before. My current WIP isnt anything new, and it doesn't pretend to be.

[Kweepa]

I want to see a story about a troupe of juggling wolves set in the System Shock universe.

It seems to me that if your ideas are running dry, perhaps you shouldn't make a game.
Or perhaps you should team up with someone who has ideas but no implementor skills.
Maybe you could start us off with a summary of the game you have so far?

[CodeJunkie]

I can come up with some ideas and scenes, but I can't flesh it out into a proper story.  For example, one game I wanted to make was a horror game set in the future where a virus infects computers very rapidly.  Since much of the environment is made of machinery, the virus causes havoc, and the machinery starts killing everything in its path.  It all seemed fine to me so far, but after sketching out several scenes in a research building, where the game starts, I couldn't find much to build on.  The basic plot was to get out of the building and stop the virus from corrupting every machine in the country, but I couldn't think of what the player can actually do besides the boring 'escape from building' and 'sneak into building and beat bad guy' routine with generic obstacle puzzles in the middle.  Sorry if what I'm asking sounds really vague, maybe you're right about finding someone else with ideas.

[Vince Twelve]

I would like you to make something that YOU wanted to make, not I.

Agreed.

I can come up with some ideas and scenes, but I can't flesh it out into a proper story.

Start with something small.  Make a one room game.  Look at some of the past entries into the OROW competition and see how they fit a small concept, a small story, and a few challenges into a short, easy to produce, and, in some cases, quality game.

Otherwise, using whatever other talents like art and coding to help someone else bring their game idea to life can help you learn about writing your own game.  Writing good adventure stories and designs takes just as much practice as graphics and code.  Good luck.

[Tartalo]

What I'm looking for is just some idea of what sort of adventure game you like.

I just posted the magical recipe in another thread:
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=30771.0

But if you ask me, I look for are adventures that:
- Are not for children. For example, you know this Emily Enough puzzle where you help one to make a dress? I love these politically incorrect details in amateur adventures.
- Are visually appealing. We are in 2007! If you are not good at painting a trick is to use photos like in Soviet Unterzögersdorf.
- Have an intriguing story behind. I usually explain to people that don't play adventures that it's like an interactive comic. You need this "need to know" to keep playing when you are stuck, otherwise it can get very boring in these moments. You achieve a lot of this with good writing, see Trilby's Notes for example. In this sense, if you are really out of ideas I would recommend you to (re-)read Edgar Alan Poe's short stories. He always leaves the best for the end and you can't stop reading.

Edited to add:
If you look for inspiration somewhere (books, other adventures...) you don't need to copy the story exactly, a good story will still work well if you change the context. For example, investigator's stories are usually about discovering a murder, but you could adapt the story and make one about somebody whose partner is cheating her/him and needs to know the truth. That would make it new and different.

[Radiant]

Well...

I look for keyboard support. In fact I categorically refuse to play games that lack this. It's really easy to put in, so there's really not an excuse for not doing so.

I like humor. By which I mean the kind which is actually funny, but of course that is a matter of taste. However, I held a poll once about which kind of humor adventure games liked best, and among a list of e.g. the Coles and Al Lowe, the obvious winner was Ron Gilbert, of Monkey Island fame.

To hold my interest, I'd like a game to have either an intriguing story, or good puzzle design. Preferably both, of course, but I'm not that picky   Big perks include (1) multiple story paths or different endings; (2) puzzles with multiple solutions; and (3) non-linearity.

[Vince Twelve]

To hold my interest, I'd like a game to have either an intriguing story, or good puzzle design. Preferably both, of course, but I'm not that picky   Big perks include (1) multiple story paths or different endings; (2) puzzles with multiple solutions; and (3) non-linearity.

The problem with (1) and (3) is that they often result in a weakened plot.  Usually the writer has one idea for the story, and different branches added onto that for various ending or non-linearity are usually just lame.  But the game gets to add two attractive-looking bullet points to the features list so the developer is happy. 

Major points goes to the game designer who manages to weave non-linearity and multiple story paths into a game that don't compromise the integrity of the strong story.  I don't think that I've seen it adequately done, nor do I profess to know how to do it, but I'd love to play that game.

[Radiant]

The problem with (1) and (3) is that they often result in a weakened plot. 

Hey, I never said it was going to be easy

[Tartalo]

Big perks include (1) multiple story paths or different endings; (2) puzzles with multiple solutions; and (3) non-linearity.

I haven't played yet an adventure with multiple endings and feel that as an added value. I usually end with the sensation that I missed something important but playing the whole adventure again to look for the alternative endings gets very boring for me. Matter of taste.

Big YES to multiple solutions. It's essential when it's of common sense, if you need to reach something high and the steel bar will work but not the umbrella and the answer you get is a plain "It won't work" it's disappointing. I also like when you have different paths without changing the big story, when you have alternative small puzzles you can solve to advance in a bigger puzzle, this is really an added value because sometimes you simply don't get what was in the author's mind.

Another big YES to non-linearity, but try to do it without spoiling the story. In some cases discovering things in the "incorrect" order will advance facts and hints that make the game less interesting. Is Monkey Island a good example of non-linearity? If I remember well you permanently have 3 big problems to solve simultaneously that are almost independent.

[Ghost]

Hm, while it is true that you should make the games you'd like to make, I can't say collecting some tips will hurt, so here's my few cents:

I really like puzzles that are not inventory based. Puzzles that require thought and not just using the magnet on the glove and on the ruler to make a tool for fishing a key out of something. A great resource for those kind of puzzles are old text adventures- where you could only read an inscription on a red/green amulet by reading it though a bottle of white wine, or were you had to figure out ways to navigate a castle in knight moves. Or something like that, it's all there.
Which brings me to interfaces- I actually like to have my inventory on-screen all the time, and I can bear with more than look/use/talk buttons. Offering additional actions is a plus to me.

I value story over puzzles, and interesting, fleshed out characters slightly over the plot. Humour is a good thing to have, but it shouldn't be inserted for the sake of it.

Aye, and whatever type of setting you use, always include a platypus. You'll increase your downloads by a factor of ten for just one platypus, as scientists around the globe will happily confirm. 

[Radiant]

Which brings me to interfaces- I actually like to have my inventory on-screen all the time, and I can bear with more than look/use/talk buttons. Offering additional actions is a plus to me.

(shameless plug) The MegaVerb GUI, the closest thing to a text parser that isn't actually a text parser. (/shameless plug)

[Ghost]

(shameless plug) The MegaVerb GUI, the closest thing to a text parser that isn't actually a text parser. (/shameless plug)

Aye, true. And a good plug it is, too.

[Tartalo]

always include a platypus. You'll increase your downloads by a factor of ten for just one platypus, as scientists around the globe will happily confirm. 

That's true only if the platypus is naked.

[blueskirt]

One thing that I like a whole lot more than a good plot is the universe where the events take place. May it be a dark, grim and gritty city, filled with crime and corruption like Pleurghburg, Gotham City or Basin City, or a weird and hilarious universe like the Galaxy of Fantabulous Wonderment, or an unique post apocalyptic setting like Superhero League of Hoboken or Full Throttle... I like it when the place itself is interesting, complex and manage to catch my attention and make my imagination run loose, imagining stories or making me regret even more when no sequels are released to expand on these universes. I'd like to see more of those.

Another thing I'd like to see is less adventure games that I define like "good boy scout adventure games", those adventure games that try to have great graphics, great music, great plot, and nothing more, similar to all these FPS/RTS that fell into oblivion because they didn't introduced anything new to the genre. The formula "LucasArts/Sierra quality graphics/music + amazing story = instant success" was something to hope for back in the days, but since 2005, I can say there is an insane amount of games that managed to reach the same or higher level of quality than adventure games released back in the golden age. What I'd personally like to see, in a not so distant future, is having this formula changed to "LucasArts/Sierra quality graphics/music + amazing story + something rarely seen/unseen in AGS/completly new = instant success". More games like Linus Bruckman or GFW, more games that include elements from other genres, like platformer or RPG...

I haven't played yet an adventure with multiple endings and feel that as an added value.

Err... not even Reactor 09?

I value story over puzzles, and interesting, fleshed out characters slightly over the plot.

While story is important, puzzles are important too. There is a thin line between a game and an interactive movie. Games where it is obvious that all the emphasis was put into the plot instead of the puzzles and where all I do is walking around, talking with people to trigger events and solve puzzles that require absolutly no thinking at all are not what I would call adventure games.

[Tartalo]

More games like Linus Bruckman or GFW, more games that include elements from other genres, like platformer or RPG...

I was playing Linus today (I thought I had completed it, and I had done just half of the puzzle he he). It's difficult to say where a genre ends and another one starts, but I would put Linus in the Logic games category, the best logic game I have played in ages.

When the limits of a genre are explored gems like this can appear, games where you can see which fountains they are drinking from but can't classify easily, and sometimes they mean the start a whole new category, a reference to describe the games that come afterwards: "It's like Rogue, Manic Miner, Maniac Mansion, Doom, Myst, Tomb Raider..."

But some other times the experiment is an uncooked mix of genres, and very few games have done it in a way that satisfies the fans of at least one of the reference genres.

I haven't played yet an adventure with multiple endings and feel that as an added value.

Err... not even Reactor 09?

Not even Maniac Mansion, I have the feeling that I have missed an important part of the authors work but if I replay an adventure before I have forgotten the solutions I get bored, It's like reading a book for second time, I will discover things I didn't see the first time, sure, but I need to forget the details to enjoy really the second reading. And I have seen only a few films two times in a row, films like Memento or Mulholand Drive were it's impossible to get it all with only one viewing. (Ah, and Sim City, because I was already in love with Frank Miller's comic). But don't feel bad about me, I can live with this.

[Vince Twelve]

I haven't played yet an adventure with multiple endings and feel that as an added value.

Err... not even Reactor 09?

This is interesting to me because I just played Reactor 09 all the way through for the first time yesterday.  Previously, I had played only a short bit, but I was told that the game that I'm currently designing has a few thematic similarities so I went through and finished it.  It was an excellent game with great art, story, and gameplay (and dialogue thanks to ProgZ's revisions!) but to answer your question even though it wasn't directed at me, no, I didn't feel that the multiple endings were an added value.

I saw three different endings in my attempts to get the best one (turns out I had to replay the whole game because I had said some wrong things near the beginning) and the first two didn't feel like true endings to the game.  If I had gotten either of those endings and not known from having been told that there are multiple endings I would have been very disappointed in the game.   However, after seeing the true ending, I was quite satisfied.

So for multiple endings to really impress me or add "value" to the game, each one would have to be something that I could walk away from satisfied.  That would give the true feeling of me, as a player, having an effect on the outcome of a story.  If and ending is "Oh no, the bad guy gets away and all hope is lost because you didn't pick up that inventory item a few hours ago"  I don't feel like the game is over.  Instead, I have to go back and repeat the challenge.

If only one ending is a true ending or what I would describe as a "satisfying" ending, then the other endings aren't really endings, they have more in common with death scenes.  "You've failed, hope you saved!  Try again to get the real one!"

If a game had multiple satisfying endings, where I could make meaningful non-arbitrary choices during the game that would end the game in a way that rewarded me for my play style, that would be of added value to me as a player.

Oh, and thanks for the Linus shout out!  (Which had multiple endings but only one true ending...    But then again, as Tartalo mentioned, it's more of a logic/puzzle game at heart!)

[blueskirt]

I easily found 2 endings (other than the good ending) that were filled with emotions and were worth being seen in Reactor 09. But yes, for multiple endings to succeed, more than one must be satisfying to see, and more importantly, while the normal ending might not be the best ending, it must at least satisfy you enough to make you say "Phew, I finished that game.".

Not even Maniac Mansion, I have the feeling that I have missed an important part of the authors work but if I replay an adventure before I have forgotten the solutions I get bored, It's like reading a book for second time, I will discover things I didn't see the first time, sure, but I need to forget the details to enjoy really the second reading. And I have seen only a few films two times in a row, films like Memento or Mulholand Drive were it's impossible to get it all with only one viewing. (Ah, and Sim City, because I was already in love with Frank Miller's comic). But don't feel bad about me, I can live with this.

No judging. It's a matter of taste I guess. While I can't watch a movie twice in a row, for games I prefer to search for the multiple endings and not miss an important part of the authors work while I'm still in the zone and while the story is still fresh in my mind so I can skip long dialogues and go straight to the point.

Oh, and thanks for the Linus shout out!  (Which had multiple endings but only one true ending... But then again, as Tartalo mentioned, it's more of a logic/puzzle game at heart!)

Still, it had this "something rarely seen/unseen in AGS/completly new" element that I'd like to see more often. It's like the gravity gun of HL2 or the bullet time of Max Payne. Remove both of these elements to their respective games and what you get? Just another first/third person shooter.

But some other times the experiment is an uncooked mix of genres, and very few games have done it in a way that satisfies the fans of at least one of the reference genres.

I'd rather see someone fails miserably at implementing something new than someone releasing dozens of games with interchangable graphics, stories, characters and puzzles. You can always say that at least they tried.

[Tartalo]

I'd rather see someone fails miserably at implementing something new than someone releasing dozens of games with interchangable graphics, stories, characters and puzzles. You can always say that at least they tried.

You are right. I should have said something like "but it's not easy" instead.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

If only one ending is a true ending or what I would describe as a "satisfying" ending, then the other endings aren't really endings, they have more in common with death scenes.  "You've failed, hope you saved!  Try again to get the real one!"

I don't really agree with this, Vince, for a couple of reasons:

1.  The game author decides how the story will pan out out, not the player.  By giving the player a few different options that will impact the result the author is in effect saying 'here, you can alter the game'.  It's more of a gift than anything.

2.  Negative endings should have just as much impact as positive ones if handled properly.  It's like with movies, every once in awhile you'll see one that will have a depressing ending to it (the hero dies, etc) and some people will be disappointed.  Others will walk away from it being affected by the result and it will make them think.  That, in my opinion, is a great reason to include sweet and sour endings in a game. 

I'm not sure whether you played Mind's Eye or got both endings but I put considerable effort into making both make sense for the level of information you were able to get up to that point, so whether or not you got the happy ending you at least got a result based on what you were supposed to have learned. 

For example:

Spoiler

If you just walk blindly through solving the few physical puzzles you never have the opportunity to learn who you really are, and at the end the evidence leads you to think Dr. Knox murdered Dr. Mitchell - when in fact you are Dr. Mitchell.  The ending is a bit of a downer, granted, but it's really impossible to make a negative ending fully satisfying.  The trick is just to go with what is logical and makes sense.

[close]

There have been a few games I've played with predominantly negative endings that I thought were good.  A recent one I played with such an ending was called Missing, and it's a first person adventure game that you can find free if you look.  I walked away a bit disturbed at the end, and I think that's a good thing!