Considering those 2 very similar scenes, which one do you like most, and why?
(my question is very vague on purpose)
It's not about the GUI, it's really about the background.
(http://www.abandonia.com/files/games/232/Lost%20Files%20of%20Sherlock%20Holmes%20-%20The%20Case%20of%20Serrated%20Scalpel_1.png)
(http://www.abandonia.com/files/games/285/Cruise%20for%20a%20Corpse_6.png)
The second one is much cleaner, but the first one gives the impression that it could be better if seen at better resolution, so the promise IS THERE!
The first one.
It has less sharp detail, giving it more character, and it has a more pleasant perspective.
That's why I asked. For me, the first one is ugly (lame contrast and detail level). But I knew people might see all that with a different eye.
I love the second one for his grayish (but not dull) tones. Pastel, should I say?
Even when Sherlock Holmes (first screen) was released I thought: wow, that's blurry.
Looking at it makes me feel like having an eye cataract :P
On the other hand, the second one suffers from a bad colour choice and black outline. So if I had to choose between these two, I'd go with number one.
But I'm afraid I'm still a scumm fanboy :)
--edit: I've just seen that you've already written some words about the colours as well. Maybe I add a note:
I don't like the colours, because it looks like the artist had trouble with the 8-bit colour limitations.. eg the gramophone's funnel could look way better.
Oh, I didn't mention why I don't like the second:
It looks like the colours have been chiseled or something, and the shading(or lack of) makes it look very confined, unlike the depth in the first given by liberal shading and higher perspective.
It's funny because, once again, it's really the colors I like in the second one.
- In the first one, they have more colors, but they are too bright, and, IMHO, it's horrible taste.
- However, in the second one, there are less colors, but they are closer to those subtle colors you used to find in Amiga graphics, for example. Maybe it was historically for technical limitations (64 colors), but in the end I creates something more powerful, artistically speaking.
What I call "Amiga colors" :
(http://inlinethumb35.webshots.com/45538/2753363410095088590S425x425Q85.jpg)
No I believe that the lack of colour-variety in the second gives a blank and uninviting view to the player.
The first is, as you said, brighter, making it quite delicious to my eye, with various pieces of furniture glowing in the firelight, and no harsh lines to distract the viewer from the beauty of the scene.
Quote from: wonkyth on Thu 24/06/2010 11:25:28
the lack of colour-variety in the second gives a blank and uninviting view to the player.
Shit, that's the way I paint. :) My friends probably never told me that I was doing crap! :D :D :D ;)
Yay friends! :P
Since I can draw for toffy, I tend to be a very headstrong critic, so go ahead and only give me a little notice. ;)
Wait, that's not what I meant. I didn't paint THAT one, so no offense. I was just suddenly wondering how my conception of what's "pretty" influences my tastes in video games, and vice versa.
Actually I can like both styles (I am a man of broad... tastes), but in my opinion first one does not match the game genre. It associates with something cosy and makes me think about kind fairy tales. While second style - with these sharp edges and strict colours - causes slight uneasiness.
By the way, main character with the less colors EVER in the history of video games, comparatively to the number of colours in the game itself :D
Game = 64 or 256 colors
Main Character = 2 colors (skin + brown) + black+white.
If the second one didn't have those black outlines I would have gone for it I guess. I think the first one looks too pompous.
I can't say which is better. They are both decent in their own way.
However, the first one has an evidently chosen color palette for a specific effect, the second - doesn't seem so.
The problem with the second one is that there's really nothing identifying or unique about it. For instance, if you didn't know you were on a cruise ship you'd never know by that room. The first picture, if you know Holmes, has several giveaway items that this is the very interesting and eye candy filled sitting room at Baker Street. The violin, the periodic table and chemistry 'lab', the Victorian furniture all point to a very specific thing so you feel right at home from the beginning of the game. Many of Cruise For A Corpse's backgrounds aren't terribly good at that, so aside from the outfits on the character closeups and an item here or there (like the gramophone), many of the set pieces seem pretty arbitrary and the rooms without real personalities.
Also, I'd specifically question the garish color choices on a cruise ship of all places as well as the heavily-enclosed nature of the room and the lack of viewports to the ocean. Every decent photo I've found of activity/smoking/relaxation rooms on cruise liners have windows looking out onto the ocean, and why not? You're taking a cruise for a reason. Here's just one example of a smoking room aboard a cruise liner that gives us a better sense of grandeur without being pompous:
http://www.ssuganda.co.uk/educ/smoking%20room%20empty.jpg
My point is really that many of the CFAC interiors didn't look tailored to a cruise ship design and could easily have been substituted for someone's bedroom or whatever, which isn't really good design.
Quote from: Ascovel on Thu 24/06/2010 15:09:38
the first one has an evidently chosen color palette for a specific effect
What do you mean? What effect?
I've understood what I don't like about the first one :
Every object in the scene uses ONE tone of color (let's say: a chair will be brown), but then the shadowy parts of those objects use the exact same color tone - just made darker - and the lighter parts also use the exact same tone - just made lighter.
As if the artist had just moved a slider in Photoshop to get the full range of shading tones for the object.
IMHO it's a very bad choice. For better results, you're supposed to take in account that the tone might vary with the intensity of the lighting.
For example, still using the example of a brown chair, the darker tones might have a higher Red value, while the lighter tones might be more yellowish.
Quote from: ProgZmax on Thu 24/06/2010 16:13:32
The problem with the second one is that there's really nothing identifying or unique about it
(...)Here's just one example of a smoking room aboard a cruise liner that gives us a better sense of grandeur without being pompous: http://www.ssuganda.co.uk/educ/smoking%20room%20empty.jpg
Your post is interesting because it mostly questions the composition of the scene.
I'd be tempted to be partial on this one, because the cruise is actually on a medium-sized sailship of the late 19th century, not a liner, so in my opinion it actually makes sense: not much space for passengers, and rooms redecorated with 1950's-style.
I also prefer the Cruise for a Corpse background (though it's one of the least interesting rooms in the game), mainly because the Holmes one is so cluttered - it has no real focus, partly due to the limited tonal range, and a lot of the furniture seems redundant. Also, I remember thinking even at the time of release that the Holmes backgrounds seemed blurry. It worked quite well for the outdoor locations in foggy London, but not so much indoors.
I agree that the palette, perspective and composition of the first are quite poor. The high angle of the camera is a particularly bad choice for conjuring the atmosphere of 21b Baker Street.
As GG says, the second one is not the best screen from Cruise for a Corpse, but I certainly prefer it to the first. Far from finding the limited palette boring, I think the more carefully chosen colours are far more pleasing.
I think both are somewhat boring, and the second one more so. Too many straight vertical and horizontal lines. If you want to look at old low resolution 256 colour graphics done right, look at Discworld (http://www.mobygames.com/game/discworld/screenshots). Those backgrounds still look impressive despite the 320x200 resolution and the 256 colour limitation.
Quote from: Trumgottist on Thu 24/06/2010 21:18:19
If you want to look at old low resolution 256 colour graphics done right, look at Discworld (http://www.mobygames.com/game/discworld/screenshots).
Yes, yes, there are some much better graphics out there in the world. That's not the point. :-)
Someone commented the black outlines, and, indeed, I remember perfectly finding the backgrounds unhomogeneous. Some of them rely heavily on black outlines, while some don't have any (see below).
They probably had a production pipeline that involved several artists. Or maybe they lacked time to polish all the backgrounds.
(http://www.abandonia.com/files/games/285/Cruise%20for%20a%20Corpse_7.png)
That one looks better. :)
Yeeees, much better, except now the character fits like crap.
Quote from: wonkyth on Tue 29/06/2010 01:04:55
Yeeees, much better, except now the character fits like crap.
The character was vector-drawn. So it looked crap but the animation was smooth. Think "Flashback opening sequence" (same technology).
(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/8821/wherelight2.png)
(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/2527/crimson20002f.gif)
3D renders in Commodore 64 palette. (Yes, it is "Reverie", not "Riverie". A typo to be fixed). Crimm's Son is an actual game I am working on.
Only looking at these 2 images and none others from Cruise for a Corpse or Holmes I would say that the second image is much more intimate while the first is very detached and flat. The lowered camera angle provides the most towards this effect. It is like I am in the room and watching this happen.
While they are both in a doll house perspective I think the second image engages me more as an observer. Also the perspective is not perfectly flat like in the first image and the "camera" is zoomed in more which makes everything larger.
A quick search on google gives me this:
http://www.places-to-go.org.uk/Photos/sherlock_holmes_study.jpg
Which I feel would make a wonderful background properly lit and arted up for a game and does some similar [though more advanced] things with composition like Cruise for a Corpse.
I agree. The first image does not feel cozy. It's not engaging. I do prefer its color palette and its lighting effects, but that is all.
The second image has much better composition, although dull in color.