You are a young muslim woman who is attempting to escape the country. Both your family and husband want you dead because you have caused the unforgivable sin of falling in love with another man. If found, you will be stoned or beaten to death.
Your lover is a foreigner from the west, who is waiting to leave with you at the airport. You must find a way to find yourself there without being discovered.
(http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh147/pixelia/muslim01.png)
What do you think?
I think it's highly original, but it's a politically/morally/religiously delicate subject.
When undertaking something like this, a lot of factors would need to be taken into account. If you feel you have something to say about such a serious subject, or have an insight into a similar situation, then...why not?
On the other hand, if you simply wish to exploit such political/moral/religious views, then I would advise against it.
I just needed to say that I agree with limpfish really.
I understand completely where you're coming from, just don't know how some people may take it. Who knows, maybe palistians may shut down AGS forums, as they did with youtube ;D
No, honestly, this IS a delicate matter and unless you can make your opinion clear and you have a reason for making the game, just making it because you have some puzzles, or you want to exploit the circumstances (as fish says), it seems a bad idea really.
I actually do have something to say on the matter and I can't seem to keep the subject off my mind these days. I'm aware that it's a very delicate subject...
I mean to tell a tale of a young woman who struggles against her religion and traditions, she has dreams of a better future. She finds this in a foreigner who is gentle, kind, patient and treats her as an equal.
This video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoreYr3MsAw) somewhat inspired me...
I think you should make the game if you believe enough in the subject matter and are familiar enough with it. People will play the game if it is compelling, but if the story amounts to little more than propaganda you'll probably have a lot of people panning it. If you are inspired by something, I say go with it!
I think it's a lovely idea if treated right. I think you can emphasise her character: that under the veil is a real person with hopes and dreams. And to avoid turning it into a stereotype of the rebellious teen, you can show that she actually believes in her religion and traditions, except that she takes a more moderate view. Similarly, the foreigner doesn't have to be a dashing blond American waiting to whisk her off to New York, but possibly a European (Turkish? :P ) with some understanding of her culture.
I'm saying this from the point of view of someone who lives among many Muslims who are quite different from the extremes showed in Western media. I'd like to see something that shows the range of what Islam is: the extreme conservatives as represented by her family, and the more "modern" moderates as possibly represented by herself.
Of course, then, in order to do this right you will have to do some in-depth research of Islam. You can include this in your game, and then it could serve an educational purpose as well as creating awareness.
You have some good points, Auriond.
I've been waiting to be inspired in order to begin my first game and I think I am now.
An in-depth research will be my next step. Many thanks.
I'd be very intrigued to see this game, if it's done well.
It doesn't sound a bit original, in fact it sounds very stereotypical.
Original would be something that we westerners totally didn't expect. Not just that we're great and they're crazy, over there.
You haven't even really settled for a country, you just mentioned she's muslim, but whatever, all muslim countries are the same, right?
Since she (the main character) is the one the crazies are after, but ALSO a "crazy" herself, you're assesment seems inaccurate. Not to be a jerk, but pixelia seems to be open to doing more research in order to flesh out a deeper story, invloving more factual points on the religion beyond "they're crazy", or so they posted just ahead of yourself. But I think this does a great job of illustrating why it's so important to handle this game delicately. Many will go into this waiting for a biggotted (even slightly) point of view, and miss whatever character story you tell.
I'd also like to point out that none of the statements actually made by andail were in the first post, they just weren't preemptively addressed. I AM curious about them though...what say you, Pixelia? Have you really gotten into which country? Is she in fact, a crazy?
I think I've stated this twice already, but just to emphisize...not being an ass. :P
And to answer the actual question here...Yes, IF the characters were believeable, and NOT action movie muslim fanatics.
I like the graphics.
Quote from: Andail on Thu 28/02/2008 08:48:04
It doesn't sound a bit original, in fact it sounds very stereotypical.
Original would be something that we westerners totally didn't expect. Not just that we're great and they're crazy, over there.
You haven't even really settled for a country, you just mentioned she's muslim, but whatever, all muslim countries are the same, right?
From the screenshots, I think it's pretty safe to say this isn't Indonesia or Malaysia. A Middle Eastern country, then, but she may not have decided which one yet. It would depend on her storyline and what her research turns up, or at least that's how I would do it if I were her.
Also, the "we're great and they're crazy" bit - that's why I said not to make the foreigner an obvious Caucasian. It would be much more meaningful, in fact, if the lover himself was Muslim. Possibly from Malaysia or Indonesia, for that matter.
And Pixelia has already indicated that she is open to treating this sensitive issue in a nuanced matter, so I hope that will turn out well.
For what it's worth, I'm approaching this from what I think my Muslim friends would want. If you want, Pixelia, I can put you in touch with some of them to tell you more about their religion. But theirs would be the Southeast Asian perspective, and they practise Islam very differently from how they do it in the Middle East.
Certainly keep going if you feel you have an important message to deliver. So long as it is well-informed and insightful. I'd be interested to see how it turns out.
Quote from: Andail on Thu 28/02/2008 08:48:04
It doesn't sound a bit original, in fact it sounds very stereotypical.
Original would be something that we westerners totally didn't expect. Not just that we're great and they're crazy, over there.
You haven't even really settled for a country, you just mentioned she's muslim, but whatever, all muslim countries are the same, right?
I actually agree with Andail, it does seem stereotypical, like, look at the background for instance, why desert? why stoned to death? (why iraqi laws?) sounds like that movie 'Osama' to me...
There ARE muslims in China, Austrailia, Canada, heck we're everywhere! I should know, my family is muslim (I'm athiest, but my parents either don't know that or won't admit).
Brunei is a muslim country and most (a lot) of people don't even know it exists. There isn't a game set in Brunei (I plan to make one, one of these days).
Why not make a game where it shows how the 'muslim woman' isn't so different from the 'westerner'. In fact make the westerner a Wiccan (and the ACTUAL nature respecing wiccan, not that harry potter stuff).
A muslim woman who works as a realtor falls in love with this wiccan construction worker and her family disapproves of his religion. (There are cases where two people marry each other regardless of religion you know). And the game would be how this woman tries to persuade the few members of her family to let her marry him. That sounds like a fun game.
I wouldn't play it, cause it seems so unrealistic. Aren't all muslims suicide bombers and terrorists?
It mustn't be too hard for her to escape her country, as she seems to be wearing a full body whatsit. Are muslims able to tell the difference between each other when they wear that?
evil bad guy: Look it's her!!! Lets stone her to death!!!
Evil bad guy no 2.: are you sure? She looks kinda different.... I dunno, maybe it's the eyes...
evil bad guy no 1: Damn our stupid laws which dictate women must cover their bodys and faces fully!! Damn them to hell!!!
Kaboom. Their suicide bombs accidently go off and they die and the heroine escapes.
The end.
See, it writes itself!!!
I don't care about the Muslim thing... it just sounds kinda boring in general.
You'd need something more involving happening at the same time. Like, maybe while she's trying to escape, marines are sieging the city and raping people and blowing up schools and stuff...
I would play it and recommend you to go for it as long as there is something you want to express.
The ingringement of women rights in some Muslim countries is a serious problem (and unfortunately, my own country, Turkey, gradually turns into one of those theocratic nations.).
I say go for it and be brave.
Well, it looks pretty good, and the storyline isn't too bad. Providing there's some action I think it could work well. How about...
(http://www.screen7.co.uk/junc/anothermuslimworld.gif)
;)
Mark!!! You got it totally wrong!
This is what you need to make it more exciting and actiony..
(http://www.sausagepocket.co.uk/dump/muslim01.png)
Quote from: Andail on Thu 28/02/2008 08:48:04
It doesn't sound a bit original, in fact it sounds very stereotypical.
Original would be something that we westerners totally didn't expect. Not just that we're great and they're crazy, over there.
You haven't even really settled for a country, you just mentioned she's muslim, but whatever, all muslim countries are the same, right?
Original in that the number of games based in Muslim countries, that don't involve nightvision and cries of "Private, take cover! Those eye-racky's are flanking your ass!", are relatively few. The fact that this
may be another negative view of the Islamic faith, notwithstanding.
The fact that we in the west only hear about events in these countries when someone
is stoned to death, or detonates a bomb on a school bus, doesn't mean that these subjects, negative or otherwise, can't be explored.
I mentioned in my first post about various factors being taken into account. Those include: Extensive knowledge of the subject, first-hand or otherwise, and a conscious will to explore the subject beyond "Muslims bad!"
If Pixelia is a teenage boy from Newark, whose knowledge of the subject
doesn't go beyond Fox News, and who thinks this is a good way to get his game talked about, then this is a extremely bad idea.
EDIT: Perhaps a story about a Islamic man/woman, living in the west, and the possible close-mindedness they may experience in a culture that doesn't (is unwilling to?) understand their faith, might also be worth exploring.
The "hiding from muslim authorities" part reminds me more of:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/EmeraldFool/SplinterCell.jpg)
I would play this game. I just wouldn't dare creating it! If you do it, you're a braver person than I am.
If you are prepared to do a lot of research and offer some not-so-well-known details about the country in question, avoid the stereotypes and the black-or-white (ie evil or benign) characters, I think you may be on to something here.
I wouldn't call it too stereotypical, as I would call it interesting and appealing. I immediately thought if Khalied Hossein's book, released early this year, about two wives that escape from their husband. It happened in Afganistan. By the time Talibans took over instead of communists, all men had to wear a beard, women and children couldn't walk outside alone and women had to cover their faces. Plus when someone does somethign new, they shouldn't be accused of trying to create stereotypes. All the games I've played have a certain stereotype in them. A muslim woman as a stereotype is just as interesting and acceptable in my opinion.
Seriously though, is this meant to be a stealth game?
I don't know if it would work very well as a standard adventure game. AG protagonists tend to all have one thing in common - they're outgoing, and good with people. It's rare that you have an adventure game hero who responds to a 'talk to' command with "Nah, I'm too shy to just walk right up to him and start talking."
But the thing is, I doubt many muslim women on-the-run would fall into the "exhaust all conversation topics" kind of person that standard AGs tend to require. It would just come off as contrived if she's as chatty as April Ryan or George Stobbart. But, if she isn't like that, it could mean a very boring and lonely game (which, maybe, would express the feeling of being a fugitive...)
I apologize if my first pic was stereotypical, I had this vague idea floating in my mind and I wasn't certain how I would express it into an adventure game. I like the idea of a deeper look into moderate Islam versus the more extremist side. I want to be able to touch certain taboo aspects while being watchful of what I express into this game.
The game dialogue and puzzles will be hard to figure out. I'm thinking that the character is able to talk with other people but what she says and whom she says it to will decide if the game ends or not.
I might play this game for the beautiful, stark, minimalist artwork, but I have a few reservations about the basic plot:
* If this woman knows that she could be stoned to death for adultery, then there needs to be a very compelling reason for her to take that risk. "She found true love!" is not a sufficient reason by itself. Maybe she was very young and immature and didn't take the consequences seriously. Maybe she assumed her family was wealthy or well-connected enough to help her out if she got caught. Or maybe she committed adultery before her country was taken over by Muslim extremists, and the truth is just now coming out. (This could work in Afghanistan, depending on how old she is and when the game takes place.)
(EDIT: I guess I was a bit harsh on this point. After all, everything could be against her, but she ends up doing what she wants because she's willing to accept the consequences.)
* Deadly consequences aside, does she have any moral qualms about what she did? If she was raised in a society that says adultery is a grave sin, why does she rebel?
* What repercussions, other than the threat of capital punishment, come about because of her decisions? Can she really just fly away with her lover and escape all her problems? Does she have children? Does she have an illegitimate child? Is she pregnant?
* How did she manage to sneak off with her boyfriend in the first place? In some extremist countries, women cannot go out in public without a male family member. So she's either really good at sneaking, or someone in her family helped her meet up with her boyfriend.
* Is this game supposed to make a feminist statement? If so, then why does our female protagonist have a man swoop in and save her?
As long as you keep everything credible, do plenty of research, and avoid making characters completely good and completely evil, you'll be in good shape. Good luck!
I find it really, really strange that in a thread where people are warning Pixelia against stereotypes, they start making stereotypical jokes themselves. I know it's supposed to be ironic or something, but it's just strange.
Look, I live in Singapore. We have a multicultural society. You don't have to look any farther than my circle of friends. One of them is in love with a Muslim woman. He is a Chinese, Buddhist I think. She is Malay Muslim. Despite 50 years of government propaganda telling us to be tolerant and accepting of one another's differences, both their families don't approve.
Stoning? Full body black veils? These are all so far removed from the reality of our lives here that yes, we do view the Middle East much as the West does, as a distant land alien to our own cultures (blame it on the media). Yet the basic premise is the same: my friend has gotten into such terrible quarrels with his father over the relationship that the father has threatened to throw him out/disown him. Once the father even came to the workplace after such a quarrel, intending to have it out with his son in public. Which is a very strong taboo here - airing private affairs in public.
On the lady's side, she does not wear the tudung because she doesn't feel like she can be fully true to her faith as long as she is going out with a non-Muslim. And it's putting such a strain on their relationship. She is always afraid that he's not sincere. Why? Because he won't convert to Islam. He can't, out of a sense of filial piety for his father.
Their dream is to fly away together, somewhere where all of this won't matter.
I don't mean that you should do the story of my friend, Pixelia, but I want to show that situations like this happen in real life, and it doesn't have to involve adultery and stoning. Yes, you can believe in your faith but still fall in love without any intention to rebel. Yes, you will struggle with it morally. No, it doesn't always have to be about feminism, or suicide bombing or terrorism.
And all this doesn't even have issues of extreme conservatism to muddy up the waters.
Pixelia, you have some beautiful graphics and you have inspiration and a story to tell. Tell it. But I repeat: do your research.
Yeah, the new image is great.
About the stereotypes... Well.. I blame the media. In most western countries, the media is so inundated with the negativities of the muslim religion, and I was making a political statement against these stereotypes in the form of humour. The type of humour that most muslims would get offended by (and possibly condemn me to death for :p ).
I don't reserve my anti-religious feelings to those I don't understand. I studied theology in high school. I know alot more about the various religions than the average pleb. Ask disco about my anti-catholic view.
I have been so dissillusioned by religions. I'm a Roman Catholic. I choose not to have religious beliefs. I accept there may be a God, I accept there may not be. Religious extremism is a foreign concept to me, because I cannot fathom a rational, concious human being could believe in something without any evidence of it's existance.
On that note, lets not get into a religious argument. There are about 20 other old thread that could be resurfaced to do that in.
All I gotta say, if you believe strongly in this game, make it. If its the kinda game you wanna make, make it. If its the kinda game you would wanna play, make it.
You are what counts.
And on that note, more paintovers :P !!!!!
Auriond has perfectly expressed my point about first-hand knowledge or experience. :)
The issue I want to mainly address in this game: Honour Killings.
The story revolves around Nasrin who flies overseas from Iran to study in England. She spends four years there, makes friends and slowly forgets about the taboos and don'ts of her culture. She starts partying like her friends and dates guys. Spending so much time away from her family, she had forgotten the fact that she had to come back eventually. Her father calls her on the phone and announces he has found her the perfect man to wed. Nasrin has long lost her virginity and with mounting dread as the date to return home approaches, she is torn between her easy-going modern life here and her loving family and her duties as a Muslim woman in her country.
She loves her boyfriend, Josh but at the same time she has her Islamic way of life and family members waiting for her.
Nasrin listens to her parents and marries the man her father has chosen. Nasrin world then turns upside down. Her husband is outraged to find that there is no blood on the sheets after their first night together. The in-laws want her head and her father says he will kill her with his bear hands. The family she had thought would always be there for her changes into vengeful blood-thirsty monsters over-night.
Nasrin must decide if she will be killed at the hands of her family or if she attempts to escape to another country and go into hiding.
To her surprise, there is still hope and she finds an ally where she least expects it.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/EggHeadCheesyBird/custersjihad.png)
Custer's Revenge sprite. That is funny.
Sorry my post is off-topic
Hooray for silly paintovers :)
Pixelia, with that last post you immediately deprived me of what little hope I had left that this would be an original plot.
You have managed to high-light exactly the aspects of the Islamist culture that we're already over-fed with. Is it real? Yes, in many cases. But it's not original, it's been written and filmed and talked about for ages. You're just feeding western egos.
My girlfriend since 2 years is from Iran, her family and relatives back in Iran are very modern, and have nothing but positive things to say about me and our relationship. I talk with her aunts and uncles on the phone, they send me gifts, cards, etc. They study, marry whom they prefer and can go abroad. Sure, they're oppressed by a fanatic regime, but they're not stone-age themselves.
Why not portray what a modern, urban Persian family is like?
Here's something original for you:
The blond modern young British protagonist suddenly gets depressed by the hypocracy of his warfaring government, the crap food culture and the perpetual rain. He decides he wants to pursue spirituality, healthy food and a nice climate. He begins his journey to the orient.
Or:
The young girl, who happens to live in one of those backward rural communities that still treat women the way you describe, fallls in love with a young Tibetanian monk.
Ty for all your help. I'm off to make my game now.
What about a docu-drama-sci-fi-sit-com about welders, and welding?
Quote from: Jack Sheehan on Sat 01/03/2008 14:21:08
What about a docu-drama-sci-fi-sit-com about welders, and welding?
"Honey, my welder parents are coming over to our starship at 0800 hours to criticise your welding in a comical manner... Just thought you should know."
"Just leave me alone you bitch! I'm gay!"
Seriously though, the game sounds quite original for an adventure game. There's nothing really like it around (nothing significant, anyway).
The part I don't like is the freakshow sentiment of the game. It seems like it's more about how fucked up Muslim people are (y'know, he might
seem like a loving father, but as soon as there's the slightest drama, he whips out his Kalashnikov) than about the real world.
It seems like any real message present in the game would be drowned out by all the bullshit stereotypes...
Still, it's up to Pixelia what game he/she/it wants to make. It might turn out to be brilliant, regardless of the "America! Fuck yeah!" idealism...
(Apologies for the lang-goo-wige. I just felt like cursing unnecessarily today...)
Nothing is set in stone yet. What about...
Nasrin weds the man her father has chosen for her, she's back in her country and is happy, etc... She becomes an emergency-room nurse in a nearby hospital. Her sister-in-law is married to a cruel man, she comes to confide to her that her husband suspects her seeing another man and has warned her that he was going to kill her. Nasrin is helpless and can only comfort her friend and send her back home. The next day, Nasrin has no news of her sis-in-law, so she decides to go visit her on her way back from the hospital. She finds her in her home bloodied and weeping, her in-law says that her husband had tried to kill her and her children, and that in self-defence she killed him instead and hid the body. If she is discovered she will be executed, she is only fourteen. What is Nasrin to do? Will she compromise her own safety and future to help her friend?
Perhaps, Nasrin's own husband helps?
I like that idea a lot better, actually. It's not quite as stereotypical, it's equally (if not more) dramatic, and it seems a lot less boring.
QuoteI like that idea a lot better, actually.
Ty Emerald, me too. :)
Are we aiming for originality in games? Cause I rarely find it...
Why is it wrong to put something down that's been said before, to stress it?
Quote from: Nikolas on Sat 01/03/2008 17:50:26
Are we aiming for originality in games? Cause I rarely find it...
Why is it wrong to put something down that's been said before, to stress it?
It's boring.
Lemme explain it like this: You're from Britain, right? You get those 'don't drink & drive' and 'don't give in to peer pressure' shock-ads, right? Notice how the general message remains the same, but the
way they show it changes. Sometimes the ads are preachy ('you could run over little kids'), sometimes they try to appeal to the everyman, and sometimes they just show a gory mess and say 'this could be you'. The point is, the message stays the same (don't drink and drive), but it stays fresh because the way it is presented is fresh.
It's the same with anything else, really. Unless you're fresh and original, you probably wont get much attention. (Take, for another example, all those Monkey Island rip-offs)
I personally think it'd be great to play a game like this and come away having learned something about a new (to me at least) religion. Not in that statment of fact, the-way-your-teacher-would-say-it kind of way, but because the info was intelligently wound into the story.
Emerald. To the danger of getting told to suck your balls (again), I will reply! ;D
I live in London, but I'm Greek! surprise, surprise! So I don't actually have the mentality of the brittish (fully). Nor their spelling abilities! ;D
What you say about the "THINK!" ads is what I'm also saying. You're actually agreeing with me without understanding it probably.
The message, or story, doesn't need to be original always, because presentation can also save the project! Te ads of "THINK!" for me are pieces of art, and look great! The message is as unoriginal as always, but I like them for what they are.
Same with pixelia game. What if it's not original? (not that I've seen many games that deal with such an issue). In the end it might be a good game because pixelia will make it so!
Originality is dead long ago. Tell me 5 games that are original. And I'll hand it to you!
___________
Andail is talking about something else, however, and it is my fault for mixing up things. Feeding common misconceptions is rather bad and not nice. Pairing up with all the western media, and producing something which does seem, to the few who know, somewhat unfair, not because it doesn't happen, but because the % are small, in the end, is exactly that: unfair to those who care about such issues!
QuotePairing up with all the western media, and producing something which does seem, to the few who know, somewhat unfair, not because it doesn't happen, but because the % are small, in the end, is exactly that: unfair to those who care about such issues!
I'm not sure what you mean by "the % is small"...
Here I quote: "Over 5000 women and girls are killed every year by family members in so-called 'honour killings', according to the UN. These crimes occur where cultures believe that a woman's unsanctioned sexual behaviour brings such shame on the family that any female accused or suspected must be murdered. Reasons for these murders can be as trivial as talking to a man, or as innocent as suffering rape."
Should the issue not be raised and talked about because it "may" bruise egos?
http://www.stophonourkillings.com/?name=News
and
http://www.stophonourkillings.com/?name=Stories_Archive
The numbers seem pretty high to me, and...
"Islamist culture that we're already over-fed with."
"You're just feeding western egos."
"It seems like it's more about how fucked up Muslim people are..."
"...stereotypical..."
all seem like reasons not to avert the problem altogether. (quote: "It's talked, filmed, written about for ages.") Does that mean we have to forget all about it? Leave it alone and let the activists do their jobs? Even if you plaster "unoriginal" all over my game, it's still rings true, it's real and can happen to any Muslim woman/girl out there. It happens everywhere and whenever someone brings up the issue in public, it becomes "stereotypical" and "feeding western egos". Do you think it rubs my ego to see the pictures of young girls and women who were brutally murdered? No, it does not.
There's a man who was killed because he has made a short video about an issue like this. His name is Theo Van Gogh (http://theo%20van%20gogh)and he made a movie named "Submission" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH9-gSbVeRs) that's viewable on youtube. There's another man who's currently making another short movie and already he's received death threats.
I don't think my game is unoriginal, and I don't think it's a "small" issue.
I'm well aware of the problem. As I wrote in my previous post, my life partner since 2 years is from Iran, so I've got pretty good insight.
As much as there is a problem, there are other aspects of the culture you wish to portray that I would enjoy to see, just for once, featured in a book, film or game, because it be awesomely original, whereas high-lighting once again that muslims are woman-murderers and backward and extremists and fundamentalists and all that, is not original, not any way you slice it, not by any stretch of the imagination.
Nobody's forgetting about these issues! We know who Theo Van Gogh is, we know these problems exist!
You watched a youtube clip and now you feel you have to tell the world, well it's all fine and dandy, just don't expect that people will go "holy shit is it true!?".
You asked if the game will be original and fun to play, and my answer is that it won't be original and I doubt the gameplay will work for you (what's it gonna be like, a young girl chased by bearded evil-doers throwing stones after her?). But good luck anyway.
Quote from: Pixelia on Sat 01/03/2008 21:55:02
I'm not sure what you mean by "the % is small"...
Here I quote: "Over 5000 women and girls are killed every year by family members in so-called 'honour killings'
Mathematically speaking, 5000 is a very small number compared to the 500 million people living in the middle east. That's what... 0.001% (bleh, I spent too long trying to figure that out, and I still don't think I got it)
Mathematically speaking, it pales in comparison to the 200,000 suspected gun-related civilian deaths (homicides, suicides, accidents) that happen somewhere in the world every year.
But few people do games or books about
that, because
that message just isn't juicy/controversial enough... (ehh, it's midnight, and my cognitive processes are failing... sorry if anything's incoherent)
The point is, if you're doing this because you think honour killings would make a good story, that's fair enough, but if you're doing it because of some sort of moral imperative, making an adventure game probably isn't going to be very effective for spreading the enlightenment...
Hi to all,
Pixelia, do your game if you want to. The subject is controversial as you can see what this thread turned out to be. Any form of art (even a adventure game) is due to criticism so you made the questions and you got the answers.
Say what you want to say with your game, your only expressing yourself after all.
Good luck, and I think that the Key of the game is: TOLERANCE
Pixelia, your latest modified storyline (where she gets help from her husband) reminded me of this case: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/23/magazine/23wwln-syria-t.html
For those who don't want to click on the link, it's the story of Zahra who was killed by her brother because she had lost her virginity out of wedlock. Her widower, Fawwaz, is now filing a civil lawsuit against the brother and the family. I haven't watched the video you posted, so I don't know if it's the same story, but just wanted to highlight the similarity: help from the husband.
Nothing's really original these days, it's all happened before. But it's all in the execution (bad choice of words, but you see what I mean).
I admit that I'm also quite disappointed by the focus on honour killings, since as I said before that's really very far removed from many Muslims' lives. It's like always focussing on starving children in Africa, as if the whole continent is full of them.
But well, at the end of the day these are important issues, and they're also more likely to stir people's hearts... in this case, to stir a gamemaker's heart to making a game. I guess this is something we'll just have to accept. I just hope that the game will include some nuance and not have the whole family immediately turn into bloodthirsty monsters.
Quote from: Nikolas on Sat 01/03/2008 20:06:58Tell me 5 games that are original. And I'll hand it to you!
I don't know about you, but I can think of ONE... ;)
hey, I just want to apologize for being a pain in the ass.
@Pixelia: A pain in the ass? I don't think so. You are just asking our opinions about something that was never done before (I don't know if such an adventure game existed before).
If you are afraid of what this game could bring, then just hide your name. It would be hard for the fanatics to find the house address of someone whose nickname is Pixelia. (Maybe they would threaten the owners of the AGS website for holding this game inside the Games database and the game would be removed?)
I still advise you to be brave and do whatever you want. Violation of women rights in these countries is a serious issue.
Raising controversy, no matter with what medium, is always fun. Must one respect everyone else's feelings? Well.. no. Putting up the finger to something you believe is wrong is never wrong by itself. But you see, both you and Andail has a valid point:
1: honor murders is a fact. Heck, there's a new way of killing them off here in Sweden, where actual murder is hard to prove as the girls are forced to jump to their death from balconies. Sly fu**ers indeed.
2: honor murders are an act most muslim leaders, both political and religious, disdaine. To portray a "backwater" community where women are stoned by western arab stereotypes is racist and not helping the cause.
So who or what are you going to attack? The fundamentalists? The law of the Koran? The abusing husbands and fathers? Remember too, that you (judging how you portrayed modern contemporary western life) are as brainwashed as any of us. We grow up with the dogmas of 60's humanism and hypocrisy, where religion is reserved for nutters in sects.
But isn't murder wrong? Isn't this an act of evil if there ever was one?
In our eyes, yes, but in theirs? Here's the punchline. They do not perceive the act as evil or wrong - but as salvation from sin and shunned honor. I'm certain a father loves his daughter no matter what religious faith, so think about this: You are completely convinced that to live as a pure muslim and accordance with Allah, you must murder your own child. Abraham did that too, but his sacrifice was hindered. These one's aren't.
Make the game. Raise hell. But think about WHO and WHAT you want to attack.
Grim Fandango was original, I dont think you can argue with that.
Grim Fandango, the film noiresque story of a guy travelling across many lands to find a girl? The one with the Art Deco elements and the traditional mythical personification of Death as a character?
Aye, that's original. :P
I'd like to ask Pixelia if they belong to an Islamic faith, or live within a largely Muslim community? When I first saw this thread, I had hoped that was the case, and the game would reflect this, allowing us an untainted representation of Islam as a whole, while highlighting an extreme situation within. The more this thread goes on, the less I am inclined to believe that this is the case.
For the most part, I'd agree with Andail's last point. Another outsider's view will struggle to be relevant. And seeing as the heroine is desperate to escape, it seems that Islam has already been condemned, before the story has even been told.
But then, honour killings aren't part and parcel of Islamic culture, so the Muslim world has been slighted from the offset.
To simply say that these are bad Muslims, and therefore shouldn't be taken as a representation of Muslim culture, isn't good enough, as it's just picking and choosing how you want to portray that world.
Any controversy caused by this game will be empty sensationalism, because in the end it will leave us with a limited understanding of the subject, with little or no room for debate.
Fishy's right. I think you should do a decent amount of research (actually talk to some people who lived there, read blogs, etc. - don't just go off of a wiki article or something)
and then present the subject in a mature, unbiased manner, leaving the audience to come to their own conclusions. I find it's far more effective if the writer/director doesn't force their opinions down people's throats.
Edit: You should look into the Iranian comedian Omid Djalili (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omid_Djalili). He's ingenious, hilarious and very insightful.