Just curious as to people's styles etc and how people do things. What I'd like to know:
Do you digitally draw in an art package like photoshop etc and if so are you hardcore and use the mouse, or a perfectionist and use a graphics tablet?
OR
Do you hand draw your stuff and then scan them in using the trusty flatbed?
What graphics software(s) do you use?
AND Finally, that good old favourite:
How long does it take you to finish a character/background?
I'm just curious. The only game I ever made was a small demo (not even sure if I released it on here), At the time I had no Graphics Tablet and no Scanner, so everything had to be done the hard way. From what I remember some of the backgrounds used dodgy photoshop filters/textures to save time, and the one character I did was a rip off paintover of a RON character out of the insta-kit.
Suffice to say it was shite.
Now however, even though I still have no artistic ability, I have a super duper all in one printer which has a scanner, so I can do things the old fashioned way. Also you seem to be able to get (albeit small) graphics tablets fairly cheap.
Just wondering since in a couple of months I'll have a bit more time on my hands, and if things don't go to plan (ie no job) a LOT of time on my hands so I may start AGS-ing again.
So Spill...... :)
I'm hardcore, I use Photoshop/ProMotion/Paint and I really can't give an answer to the "how-long-does-it-take" question as that not only depends on the individual piece but it's also really hard to tell when exactly I start and end working with my workflow.
For my current game I pencil backgrounds by hand, then scan the artwork and color it in Photoshop. There's a tutorial detailing my art style here (http://agsezine.wordpress.com/2007/07/22/do-it-garagegothic-style/). Once I have the composition worked out (which could take days) it takes about 5-8 hours to finish a background.
The characters are customized Poser models which are then rendered with flat shaders. I'm not proud of using Poser art, but I think I've achieved a style which doesn't trigger knee-jerk reactions from the anti-Poser crowd. For my next game, I'm going to use digitized actors. I dumpster dived a fully functioning treadmill, so now I just need to paint it chroma-key green and get a green backdrop and I'll be all set to go.
Quote from: Stee on Sun 26/04/2009 21:23:27
Do you digitally draw in an art package like photoshop etc and if so are you hardcore and use the mouse, or a perfectionist and use a graphics tablet?
Yes. Haha. I use both actually, mouse and graphics tablet. But I am leaning towards more graphics tablet, I just got one of my own after years of using the mouse.
Quote from: Stee on Sun 26/04/2009 21:23:27
Do you hand draw your stuff and then scan them in using the trusty flatbed?
What graphics software(s) do you use?
How long does it take you to finish a character/background?
And yes. Well...I use wide copic markers on vellum or denril, usually warm grays with some pens to lay in line work. I'll scan those in and then go digital from there.
I use Photoshop CS3, but I'm hardcore interested in getting CS4 just for the ability to spin the canvas. I tried it out a bit, it works so flawlessly and with the rocker buttons on the pen it just makes it almost too convenient. It's even easier than spinning REAL paper. =D I've tried Painter and as much fun as the realistic brushes can be, it just doesn't compare in quality or ease of use.
As for how long - it can be anywhere from an hour, to a day, to a month or two. Sometimes concept pieces or matte paintings can take as long as three or four months to complete just based on how much work goes into it. And how often you need to start over.... =/
I use Paint Shop Pro 9 and draw stuff one pixel at a time.
Takes as long as it takes.
PS and/or Graphics Gale. Pixels all the way, though I often draw a concept sketch to try out background composition.
I draw everything on big yellow legal pads. Then scan the pencils on a flatbed scanner and use Photoshop to turn it into a finished background.
If I'm doing a background that requires a lot of technical detail or a complicated character animation, then I draw them on plain white copy paper using my old drafting tools on my trusty drafting table.
For a really complicated cutscene (like the one at the end of The Forever Friday part 2), then I'll use a light box.
As for the time involved, on average, the pencils don't take long at all. Most of the Barn Runner backgrounds are drawn at work on my lunch break. The more complicated stuff takes as long as it takes.
- Ponch
I sketch the BGs out on plain white paper then scan them in.
After they are scanned I open up my trusty paint program that never lets me down (MSPaint) and change it to a monochrome BMP (gets rid of the fuzzies). I convert back to 24-bit BMP and change the pencil/pen lines to GREY.
From there I finalize the BG playing "connect the dots/lines", and continue with coloring.
All which is completed in MSPaint.
I do not use any other paint program unless I think the scene can benefit from it (ie; PSP7).
NOTE: The same is done for characters.
I simply draw far quicker and better using a trusty pencil. I tend to use a .3mm technical pencil for the roughs and use a 1mm for the big details. Sometimes I use regular pencils, but I like the cleaner look you get from a technical pencil. I will then scan the lineart into PS CS4 and if i'm pixelling the BG I will use a mouse, and if I'm painting I will use a tablet.
That said, I still like to experiment. I sometimes attempt to do a background in corel painter, although I've not perfected this technique. One thing I'd also like to try out is using Adobe Illustrator for tracing the lineart, then colour in photoshop. Hasn't happened yet, I just haven't had the time.
As for technique, if I'm being a good practicing artist, I will do a bunch of thumbnail sketches, use loads of reference and generally follow good practise. If I'm being lazy, I'll just see what the pencil creates. That said, I always have a solid idea of what I want and need from the background.
When it comes to characters, I will usually sprite the 4 views first. Then I will sketch the frames of the walkcycle (tablet) directly into layers, using a light blue 50% opacity (with variable opacity on the pen pressure)
As for timeframe, who knows. A sketch can take an hour or two, the colouring can take another 2 hours (pixel or wacom) It all depends on the details you put into the artwork.
So it really depends. I think the way that is most comfortable for most people to develop backgrounds is to pencil then scan then colour. Most people who learned to draw with a pencil and not a tablet that is.
The only advice I'd give to you is practice the fundamentals. Get a book called 'Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain'. GO through all the exercises. Check out some books and tutorials on drawing perspective. Photograph the hell out of the place you live, look particuarly for obscure details you can work into your drawings somehow. Its amazing what you can do with a lamp-post turned horizontally. It could be a detail for a building or a futuristic compound. Draw from life as much as possible.
Plan Plan Plan. Make sure you have a decent description of your sets. Make a list of things you need to include in a set and what you would like to include.
Thanks, I will definitely check that book out. I bought a book called "game drawing for beginners" or something and it was awful so I gave it to a mate of mine (he's one of those ex art college people). Essentially I'm just pondering whether to get a graphics tablet, but I suppose I should see how serious I get into drawing first.
Its an interesting divide we have (scanners/tablets/digital) Anyone else want to share?
Quote from: Layabout on Mon 27/04/2009 05:55:11
Get a book called 'Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain'.
I'm the black-sheep of drawing in my family, but I have heard nothing but good things about this book and how much it helps if you can't draw.
~Trent
PS-Also, when it comes to digital equipment, some people don't have the cash to get all the high-end stuff, and so just make do with free programs and such (which aren't necessarily worse).
Quote from: Trent R on Mon 27/04/2009 18:46:22
Quote from: Layabout on Mon 27/04/2009 05:55:11
Get a book called 'Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain'.
I'm the black-sheep of drawing in my family, but I have heard nothing but good things about this book and how much it helps if you can't draw.
I have this book...or well, I have the "New" version, and I really didn't like it much. Lots of weird science/psychological ideas and not enough about drawing. There were a couple chapters where you'd focus on drawing what you actually see, rather than just drawing what you think you're supposed to draw - like iconic versus reality. But if you want a book that explains that well, grab Understanding Comics by Scott McCloud from a library.
What I really can't live without, are the Gnomon videos. There's nothing quite like just watching someone else draw, it really flips on the light switch in a fast and lasting way. At least for me....to each his own. They're hella expensive though, but some libraries have them (if your library is awesome).
I do bacgrounds on paper, just the main lines, scan them, use mspaint to trace it, load the images into gimp, get rid of the garbage in a few clicks, and then I have a nice looking background to work with. =D
I sketch everything out in a cheapo sketchbook. I'm more confident with my character work so I solidify details on paper and scan in and clean up in Flash. Backgrounds I thumbnail then scan in and tinker away in Flash.
Characters are fast if I don't second guess a lot. maybe 1.5 hours from concept to finished cleanup(single pose). Backgrounds take me a workdays worth of hours if not more since I never really know what I'm gonna do until it's finished.
I use flash because I know it's in and outs better than any other program... and I kinda like the nice clean look I can get with it.
I'm drawing everything in vectors using Illustrator. Sometimes I make a sketch on paper and scan it, sometimes I use google images as references and sometimes I'm drawing out of my head without anything to look at / paint over.
I am going to learn to use photoshop some time though.
I forgot to mention that I always use a pencil to sketch. Dixon Ticonderoga are my prefered type - overall, not just for sketching - but doesn't matter really.
I then always finalize the sketches with my Pilot Precise V5 Extra Fine Rolling Ball pens (black) before scanning. Love those damn things. I also use them for writing down brainstorms. For some reason I can't think of anything if I use a pencil.
My bro has been to Japan a couple times over the last few years, and he's bought some pens that are specifically designed for writing kanji (the Japanese characters that are randomly printed on American t-shirts). My other bro, the artist prodigy, loved using them for inking.
You might want to check your local Asian market/supply store for something like that (though most merchandise at those stores are food and untensils)
~Trent
Speaking of Japan, I use millennium ink pens which is made in, ta da, Japan by Kuretake Co. for any kind of final works. Sketching I use Rose art mechanical pencils, and some times color pencils. When done I take it, scan it then bring it into gimp for touch up.
That alone is for my artwork, games is basically traced and retraced then taken into the gimp then pixelized.
Speaking of books and other art related learning I have a large stack of "how to..." manga series, one even about animation which is extemely helpful if one wants to learn about animation, and Draw Mag which is the biggest influence.
MSPaint for everything (http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/dualnames/video/x93xr4_makingthebgs_creation). I prefer BGs for a strange reason..
Here's how I did the art for Linus Bruckman: http://xiigames.com/2006/12/21/wlbswheac-post-mortem-part-two-art-production/
I draw all my maps and backgrounds like those technical architecture drawings, kinda like this:
(http://www.nidachalegre.com.br/imagens/planta-baixa.gif)
Then I plan the whole game using those rooms and whatever they have inside, so I take the plans and turn them into oldschool perspective drafts. Kinda like, wallcam perspective, something on the molds of
(http://www.caiman.us/freepix/823-1.jpg)
I make the models in Sketchup, and use them as they appear or do some editing, mainly I render them and apply photoshop effects. I'm currently working on a hybrid of Clay Render and Digital Colouring.
Alternatively, I ask for some people around the worl to take pictures of places I wish to use, then I edit them, add rendered things, details, atmosphere and everthing. 'Tis kinda hard, but works like a prim.
I'm not very fond of outdoor sceneries, so I make them the most... Indorish possible. The feeling of a person struggling through a closed space to free itself motivates the player, also, a large number of rooms, passages, cabinets, drawers, secret passages and corridors make the player want to explore more and more.
About characters, my games are mainly an lonelosome experience, with the story being told to the player through the eyes of the main character. I use dialogue scenes an such using photos of my friends and stuff like that.
I've got no human drawings ability (even though I can still concept and design), But making sprites an such is far away from what I can do.
To the deepest part of the character, my character are generally made like this:
First I think about the scenery: A ghost hospital in the middle of Europe (at least, some europe-looking place). The character arrives misteriously, after a 's'posed train crash.
Middle europe, Train, A not-hero character... Humm sounds plainly empty.
Then, we add the backstory:
The guy's grandpa was killed in the hospital 20 years ago. So the character must be at least 20.
Europe is cold, so he must wear europpean-fashioned winter clothing.
Europe is mainly white, people tend to let they'r hair long and wear glasses.
So we got a 20's white male dressed in winter clothing and glasses. He also wears a touque and it's kind overweight, to break completely the HERO look.
About his personality: He's an europpean young adult, the hospital was huge and expensive, so we can bet his family was rich enough to put his grandpa on it for years. But, ho! Hi's gramp's death was acause of money, so they aren't so rich anymore.
Thus, he got a lazy, dispretentious personality. He's kinda sour because of growing up in a decadent family with various judicial problems. He also is not fond of cold, then he is always sleepy.
We got a sour, dispretentious young male adult who likes sleeping, hate expensive stuff and it's introspective.
That's more or less how I create my scenery and charaters. Hope you guys enjoyed =D
I have the annoying problem of, as I get through a game, my art noticeably improves. Because I do a lot of what I do on the go, I've been making use of my tablet PC a lot (a Fujitsu Siemens laptop with a screen that swivels around, and a pen), and kind of come up with a formula.
I start with the absolute basic features of a room (where the walls are, and the vanishing point), work out where the doors and windows will be, and then go to the basic colouring. Fill in the walls/floor, detail the walls/floor (make them bumpy, make them textured), then go on to furniture. It looks crap to start with, but eventually the more detail that goes in, the better it gets, until you have a decent room.
Since I'm actually trying to get this game finished, I set myself to do one room an evening, and it takes me on average about 3 hours to do a decent, normal sized room. Not sure about characters, since I've only gotten one done, but they've always taken longer for me.
i draw with my laptop touch pad strait from microsoft paint, usually takes me 30 min to finish one of my crappy backgrounds 8)
Jebus Christ. A touchpad? You must really hate yourself. Go buy a mouse. I hear they are pretty cheap.
I'm not particularly good with it but I like to use MS Paint for backgrounds and inventory sprites. Easy to use and good quality. Haven't made any characters with it yet but I'm starting to try. As for time: You can't time yourself for a background. If you have an idea and what a rought background only seen once or twice then you might take 30 minutes. If you're a perfectionit who likes thigs done right then it could take an hour to a day. It depends on what you have going on in your personal life and how intricate the design of your room is.
But don't limit yourself with time. Most would prefer it takes you a year for your backgrounds to be done right thank play a game with bad backgrounds that are impossible to make out.
3D:
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/7971/zelinalokitolanuv4001.jpg
http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/1120/zelinalokitolanuv4002.jpg
Backgrounds, hmm. We usually Create the original sketch or concept, then move onto 3d max for the actual modeling and try to match it as closely as possible with he models and the original shape. Textures are done in photoshop.
(http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/6425/backgroundsjun.jpg)
Personally I think the concept looks far nicer than the 3d background. Mainly just the wood effect looks over done compared with the rest of the image. But jeez, that is looking really really lovely.
I'd have to agree that I like the concept much more than the 3d background. It has a warmer old school feel to it and much more welcoming in my eyes as an adventure game background. But the 3d final is also very very nice.
I really like your style, wouldn't mind playing a game made by you.
Quote from: Ryan Timothy on Mon 01/06/2009 02:40:50
I really like your style, wouldn't mind playing a game made by you.
Oooh you will soon, i can promise you that. I would direct you to the trailer and whatnot, but it's on this same forum, just another thread.
Actually I like the original better too. It's done by an amazing artist: Christoph Siemens. He's produced some mad backgrounds for the game. The problem is that to make the 3d characters blend well in that background we would either have to:
1- Use outline shaders or
2- Spend some more time (and moolah) achieving a more refined, outline free coloring of the lineart.
The problem is that the first approach makes our game more taxing on the pc, therefore, reducing the quantity of people that can play it, and the second one just costs more money to develop.
The 3d background has something else going for it. the fact that there is an actual plane as floor, serves well as base for the collision box/walkplane needed when doing this kind of thing.
Nice screenshots heribertovalle. I also like the 2D one better, but I'm a classic adventure gamer. I'm just curious what engine you are using. With it being 3D it certainly isn't AGS. Is it your own custom engine perhaps?
Nothing that fancy. Our engine is called Wintermute Engine. VERY good and solid, specially for 2.5D games.
:-X
I also like the concept much better. I just don't like 3D rendered backgrounds anyway.
Wintermute's a good engine too. Good Luck with the game heribertovalle! It's looking awesome so far.