Adventure Game Studio

AGS Support => Beginners' Technical Questions => Topic started by: Necro on Wed 02/07/2003 12:18:29

Title: Colour Gradients in 16-bit - Am I Retarded?
Post by: Necro on Wed 02/07/2003 12:18:29
OK heres a 300x200 , 256 colour background , Hi-res pallette

(http://www.amazing-ebooks.co.uk/images/temp/temp3.gif)

and here it is in game

(http://www.amazing-ebooks.co.uk/images/temp/temp4.gif)

Now why have the colours decided to do that??


[edit]
"OK heres a 300x200 , 256 colour background , Hi-res pallette"

I mean Hi-colour pallette in game instead of Hi-res pallette

[/edit]

Title: Re:Am I Retarded?
Post by: SSH on Wed 02/07/2003 12:26:16
What do you mean by "hi-res palette" by the way?

Not all colours in the palette are allocated to backgrounds: some are used for characters that need to be in multiple rooms (i.e. the main character). You can change how many by setting the "room dependent" switch on the palette entry. So you need to decide on the balance between backgrounds and characters and draw them accordingly.

by the way, the window makes the walls look paper-thin, and you can see the colour gradient from the lightbulb affecting the sky outside, too (which it wouldn't)
Title: Re:Am I Retarded?
Post by: Necro on Wed 02/07/2003 12:46:39
I'm Sorry I meant to say Hi-Colour pallete , the backrounds 256 colour but the Game isnt , so that should show my background and sprites properly shouldn't it?

[edited fist image in detail but not colour depth]
Title: Re:Am I Retarded?
Post by: Ben on Wed 02/07/2003 15:39:23
Those weird colors are from converting a true-color image to high-color. Try converting the image to high-color in your graphics program using dithering.
Title: Re:Am I Retarded?
Post by: TerranRich on Thu 03/07/2003 04:00:00
What Ben said. Also, I hope you didn't intend for US to C&C that image? :P You know better. ;)

It might look messy, but believe me, using dithering when converting down to 32K colors is the only way. I have to do it too with my game.
Title: Re:Am I Retarded?
Post by: scotch on Thu 03/07/2003 04:06:22
Hmm, I do high res high colour.. and I've never noticed the effect.. It's showing up because you have large areas of smooth subtle gradients.. and I don't ._.

You'll have to do that dithering I suppose.
Title: Re:Am I Retarded?
Post by: Necro on Thu 03/07/2003 11:33:26
NO NO NO ! !  :o

It is not a true colour image, It has already been dithered down from that to 256 colours!! Its exactly the same as that gif which of course cannot be higher than 256 colours anyway!!
Title: Re:Am I Retarded?
Post by: SSH on Thu 03/07/2003 11:43:57
But those 256 colours are still 8 bits per RGB value. 16 bit colour has 5 bits per RGB value, and so the values will be quantised and you get this effect. Does anyone know how to get PSP or Photoshop to have 5 bits per colour, or a better converter? I suppose you could try reloading the screenshot after AGS has nessed it up a bit and using a smudge tool on the nasty edges.
Title: Re:Am I Retarded?
Post by: Necro on Thu 03/07/2003 12:14:13
Well that sounds about right, Im using photoshop and I must say I cant see how to convert bit depth lower than 8! I shall have a look , If anyone finds it or know of a good program for this let me know.
Title: Re:Am I Retarded?
Post by: Mennuz on Thu 03/07/2003 21:32:39
Humz *looks interesting, to pimp chicks*
Why does the first picture have a mousehole?
Maybe the imported picture isn't converted back
It's just a hunch
Title: Re:Am I Retarded?
Post by: Gilbert on Fri 04/07/2003 04:34:52
SSH under 256 colour modes, the base VGA palette can use 6 bit per RGB channel, bot 8. But right, in some sense 256 colour pictures can have smoother gradient than hicolour does.
Title: Re:Am I Retarded?
Post by: Necro on Fri 04/07/2003 11:03:37
the 1st piccy has amouse hole because the image is also being used in another forum thread, but still 256 colour and would still look like the picture below if loaded into AGS.

I still havn't found anything to help :'(
Title: Re:Am I Retarded?
Post by: SSH on Fri 04/07/2003 11:11:24
If you try rubbing the smudge tool around those places where you have colour gradients, it softens the edges and makes this kind of effect less visible. I use it all the time, because it also hides the rubbishness of my drawing.

Ahah! Found a program to do the trick: it has two kinds of colour quantization: median cut and population. Try both and see which you prefer. Set the RGB depth to 555 (which colour has the 6 bits in AGS btw????).

http://www.t3i.nl/t3i/imgart.html

Actually, boyd's comment below is also probably true: 16-bit colour backrounds work best when the haven't had their colour count reduced.
Title: Re:Am I Retarded?
Post by: BOYD1981 on Fri 04/07/2003 12:13:52
if the game itself isn't 256 colours then try not using a 256 colour background, see if it helps any...
Title: Re:Am I Retarded?
Post by: Necro on Tue 08/07/2003 11:56:09
Wow thanks SSH , that seems to do the job , although I suppose its all to do with smoother gradients anyway. I'll add another reply to this thread with a screenie once I've fiddled with it a bit...

Title: Re:Am I Retarded?
Post by: Scummbuddy on Tue 08/07/2003 19:17:31
Am I Retarded?


Hmm, yes, you didn't use a correct subject title for your thread. ;)
Title: Re:Am I Retarded?
Post by: Necro on Mon 14/07/2003 14:58:48
now look , using one of igors Lurrrvly pics as an example as he probably has the same set up, here is another 256 colour image with lots of nice dithered shading like I want...

(http://maniac.adventuredevelopers.com/img/Ignac2.jpg)

Does he use magic? well maybe, but when that pic is imported in ags it looks EXACTLY the same, how it should :)  ..... however my images come out all blood gay! no matter what filter, colour reducer, bit-reducing tool i find!

(p.s. I know that pic is 640x400 while mine is 320x200 but regardless of this I get same problems.)
Title: Re:Colour Gradients in 16-bit - Am I Retarded?
Post by: Hollister Man on Mon 14/07/2003 23:25:18
I use photoshop too, and it doesn't use the same "bits per pixel" setup like PSP7.  Save the file as a BMP, and click the "settings" button.  Choose "16 bit color (a1 r5 g5 b5)" and save.  That should dither right.  I'll double check when I'm on my other PC.
Title: Re:Colour Gradients in 16-bit - Am I Retarded?
Post by: Necro on Mon 14/07/2003 23:46:37
ok thanks, also out of interest which version of Photoshop you use.
Title: Re:Colour Gradients in 16-bit - Am I Retarded?
Post by: scotch on Tue 15/07/2003 04:31:25
I use 7, and it's like that in that version.. and earlier if I remember correctly.
If people don't have 7 they should get it anyway ;)  I love the brush engine.
Title: Re:Colour Gradients in 16-bit - Am I Retarded?
Post by: Necro on Tue 15/07/2003 17:18:59
@ scotch - yeah brush engine rocks....

@ holisterman & other ps7 users...

(http://www.amazing-ebooks.co.uk/images/temp/pswin.gif)

Unfortunatly the A1 R5 G5 B5 is not available to me , and the others dont come out right.

Any ideas??
Title: Re:Colour Gradients in 16-bit - Am I Retarded?
Post by: Hollister Man on Tue 15/07/2003 20:59:09
Well, there are a few sugestions I have.  First, have you flattened the image?  Try this, save  (if you can), then undo the flattening.

Second, Photoshop is designed to work on very high color photos where bit loss will be noticible.  I would suggest downloading Paint Shop Pro 7 demo, import the pic, reduce the color depth, and save.  You can also try to find a download of PSP4.  This version has no time limit, and it will still do what is needed.  For such a high end program, Photoshop has left out some major features.
Title: Re:Colour Gradients in 16-bit - Am I Retarded?
Post by: Necro on Wed 16/07/2003 00:48:29
Well all this was stressin' me out so I went down the shop to buy a drink n stuff and lo and behold PSP 5 is being given away free on a mag , plus a demo of PSP 8 ...

Loaded it up , Converted my pic , all is well. I dont think i'll have much more troubles, its remarkable how powerfull PS is yet it lack some of what you would think basic tools.

I grew up on PSP and it hasnt changed too much over time, But i think I will still be develoing my pics in PS, then touching up & converting for ags in PSP.

Thanks for all your help people in this thread i thought it was my technique or I was doing something silly.
Title: Re:Colour Gradients in 16-bit - Am I Retarded?
Post by: Hollister Man on Wed 16/07/2003 00:54:24
Yes, I am positive now that it was a neglected option in photoshop.  I looked EVERYWHERE, and the 15 bit option is nowhere to be seen.  I assume that since Photoshop is made for high end photo and editing for print, where low color depth is apparent.  But on screen, even 256 colors can look as good as high color.  :)  I love PSP 7, but there are good traits in Photoshop too.

Title: Re:Colour Gradients in 16-bit - Am I Retarded?
Post by: TerranRich on Wed 16/07/2003 05:04:52
Stupid me. This entire thread wasn't even a technical question. Oh well, I'll let this one go. ;)
Title: Re:Colour Gradients in 16-bit - Am I Retarded?
Post by: Necro on Wed 16/07/2003 09:25:36
It was kinda, well it was technically a technical question about importing into AGS so :P
Title: Re:Colour Gradients in 16-bit - Am I Retarded?
Post by: TerranRich on Wed 16/07/2003 15:43:08
You have a point there. ;)