MAGS 2009-June: Sellout (Winner Announced)

[Tijne]

I never meant you actually did anything wrong there.  I thought your post was really constructive and helpful for everyone; I was saying all that just in general since Prog brought up the anonymous voting.  It's kind of sad, but even if you're polite and wonderfully helpful, I know a person or two who would take major offense to saying they did -anything- wrong publically .  Or even if they wouldn't take offense, they would feel humilated or what not.  I'd like to hope that if they're participating in MAGS that they want to improve, but just to be safe I give my comments in private! ^^;

EDIT: And that doesn't apply to me, so don't worry at all!

Dual,.... ....Maybe an extra box during voting for comments that can be read afterwards?

That's an awesome idea!
Just make sure you could comment on the losers as well as the winners, if you implement it Dual. ^_~

My issue with this was that I lost it just by looking at it in my inventory (a bug?). One moment it's there, look at it and you get the message you've lost it. When you go to the hints, you see that you need to go the the place you last saw it. Well... I didn't move so.. where should it be. Unfortunately (for me) I was standing next to the piano when this happened and since there's a box on the side that said: LAYDED, I was convinced I was in the right place. It never crossed my mind to go where it finally got found. But I have my sneaky, cheating ways of discovering so... I got there in the end. But still it all seemed very odd to me.

[Spoiler Alert ]
You lose the ring as soon as you get the mirror fragment.  You just don't -notice- it until you interact with the ring in some way (trying to use it on some object, look at it, etc..).
The problem with the hints system was that I had to determine what type of hint to give at what time.  Like, should I hint the person towards getting the spoon, or putting the bear to sleep first?, even though whatever order you do it doesn't really matter at that point.  You could lose the ring at anytime after getting the mirror shard, but it wasn't really -important- to get back until after you woke the chef.  And you may not even notice it was gone until you actually woke him up!  So, I saved the hint for the ring to appear till after he was awake since it would be the 'next thing to do' there.  The hint you were reading was probably for something else >.< sorry for the confusion meh.
The hint for the ring is suppose to be:
"Maybe you should stop.  Think.  And ask yourself where you lost the ring.".
If you talk to your reflection, he gives you a pretty big hint for where and how you lost your ring.

I was kind of iffy about putting the hint where it was.  I thought about putting it at the very top and saying it as soon as you lose the ring and I don't know why I decided not to do that. o.O.  I will now though, for the future... heh.  Sorry about that again!
[End Spoilers]

If this was your intention, then I missed the whole point. Sorry for that. I never thought of the LAYED brand as the one you were trying to promote. My bad...

Not at all.  If it failed to catch your attention then I failed to promote it well enough, as you said; I tried, yet failed. xD

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Leon: of course the voting is anonymous.  The only person that could find out what a person voted without them publicly saying so is Klaus by checking the ip's/accounts of each voter, which would be a pain anyway.  

Anyway, regardless of Gilb0t's/Leon's views I stand by what I said.  I prefer to protect the potential feelings of developers over a driving need to criticize their work.  I am always with the developer on this issue, at least with regards to freeware titles.  People who sell products open themselves up to criticism because you have purchased their work and have a right to satisfaction.


I don't think the MAGS site needs comments.  The voting is simple, straightforward, and people know whether they win or lose without fanfare.  This 'competition' is actually just an activity to have fun like all the other activities in this forum, and our goal should be to enhance the fun had by entrants and players rather than diminish it.  

That's all.

[Gilbert]

Well, I don't have time to read all the posts yet, so if there's something that's already mentioned or settled on please tell me.

While I agree also on the fact that harsh criticism can scare people away or affect others' impression I don't see why we should prohibit constructive feedback.

If it's an extreme or inappropriate comment like "This game sucks! You don't even have a chance!" I'm sure mods would have a fair judgement and provide appropriate actions and just let only the fair ones remain.

When you post something in public other people would like to give feedback anyway, and to prevent threads spammed with comments and negative feelings as a consequent we sometimes do account for the problem. That's why criticisms are in general prohibited in the GIP and Completed Game forums, so the game authors could ask for feedbacks in the C&C forum only if they really want. However, as we allow comments in the Games page, unless a game author never posts his/her game there (which we really don't prefer as we do want the Games page to be as exhausive as possible regarding released AGS games) you cannot prevent the game from getting any kind of feedbacks anyway, not to mention that we already have a official "secret" rating panel who rate all the games on that page (and it's not uncommon that game authors get disappointed with the reviews, but I don't think that's preventable as long as you post something in the public, and in fact people should understand that constructive criticisms can help them improve in the future).

Now, back to this case, which is a competition. As I mentioned before, you're expecting your work to be compared already. And for the other activities here (especially those which involve voting) people give lots of comments anyway. Granted, that MAGS games are made in a rush and the authors may not be able to make their games exactly as what they originally planned, but I don't think there are enough reasons to prohibit all comments. These feedbacks, in fact, can help people to improve their future games, or if they want to refine their entry to a better product to be released later.

As I never follow things really closely I could not account for the original reasons for separating the voting process. Anonymous voting to prevent personal criticisms might be a reason, but I think one main reason is to automate the process (other than tedious hand-counting in the other activities, as we expect the total number of votes for MAGS would be higher than the other activities) and to prevent excessive spams of the thread with votes.

[Leon]

Alright, I think the initial focus is getting a bit lost. My initial post was just a comparison of the two games, not to criticise at all. If the game maker (or anyone else) sees it as that, fine, or sorry. It was never intended.

But then tell me, ProgZ, how do you come to a dicision which game to vote for? Don't you use the same process as I described in my initial post?  The only thing is that you don't want anyone to know how you got to your decision?

I agree with all that if you want to give critique to the game on how to improve (but then just one game in particular), there are other locations and means to do so. Since it's a competition, there's not much to change about the game anyway so there's not much use the give these comments on how to improve (or do differently) at that time.

But I still fail to see why the voting and the motivation behind it has to be anonymous.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

I try very hard not to compare freeware games but weigh them on their own merits.  I completely fail to see the point in offering criticism that wasn't asked for, and that's the point I'm making here.  Just because someone enters an activity doesn't mean they're exposed to scrutiny, particularly not when they are making a game for free for you to enjoy (or not enjoy).  This is why I respect that my opinions may not be welcome and I do not comment actively on a game unless the developer solicits feedback, and even then I'm usually reticent because I'd hate to see someone discouraged because I personally don't like their game.  Ultimately, I see no problem with critique when it's asked for; when it's not it seems gratuitous.  I figure that if a person wants to learn from their players they will ask for feedback and if not then they aren't really that interested in opinions good or bad, so why offer one -- unless you just want to be heard regardless?

Anyway, I've said what I have to say so my activity in this thread is done.

[Leon]

We'll leave the discussion at that. We will keep our different views here. In my view MAGS is a bit more than an activity. It's a competition. And in competitions you need to compare and give opinions. In activities everyone is free to do as he/she pleases and you won't have a winner (or everyone is).

[Dualnames]

To quote Klaus instruction mail...

Keep
the "Type of voting system" invisible. There are different
styles that show the results while and after voting but
these were not too successful in the past - so I kept
it always invisible in the end.

That's a way not to affect the vote while it's on the process.
Not a way to disallow critique in any way. At least that's how I see it.

Dual,.... ....Maybe an extra box during voting for comments that can be read afterwards?
That's an awesome idea!
Just make sure you could comment on the losers as well as the winners, if you implement it Dual. ^_~

Will do.


I say Leon, just said his opinion on the games, praising them both and not choosing one of them at any point thus affecting the vote.

I say if a critique is posted well, it should be posted here. That's what I say, if one has any problems with the critique, he should tell us so. If one feels offended by my opinion on the matter tell me. I understand both sides. Though I can't be neutral.


Anyway..

The winner and the man to choose the theme

Tijne with his entry Proposal..

Congrats to you and jerakeen.
I've sent you a PM Tijne so you have two days to pick a competition theme and tell me about it..

So much controversy in my first month as a host..

[jerakeen]

Congratulations Tijne it was a pretty good game.

[Leon]

The winner and the man to choose the theme

Tijne with his entry Proposal..

Congratulations Tijne, well done!

Just to prove my point.  (I never win any lottery ;-).

So much controversy in my first month as a host..

Sorry... I'll keep quiet(er) next time 

[Tijne]

:o  I won?  Aww!  I was hoping to play next month. x_x, can I forfeit or give up the prize to jerakeen or something?...  :x
or am I still able to play if I make up the guidelines? [That wouldn't sound very fair..]

So much controversy in my first month as a host..

We're testing you to make sure you're worthy. ?

[Leon]

or am I still able to play if I make up the guidelines? [That wouldn't sound very fair..]

You can always enter. You can only start working after you've posted the quidelines and the content has to be original. Other than that, you can enter your own game. Mayve you want to try to beat Wretched who won three times in a row.

So much controversy in my first month as a host..

We're testing you to make sure you're worthy. ?

Shhh.... you were to keep quiet on this!   

[OneDollar]

Congratulations to both of you, the games were really well made and I enjoyed playing both of them (what is it about advertising that makes you think of death?). I was a little worried there wouldn't be any entries after the MAGS special last month, so it's great to get some competition. Good luck with the next theme Tijne!

[Dualnames]

The only one not viable to enter is me. For obvious reasons.

Also Leon can't enter because he didn;t keep his mouth SHUT!!