Hi there!
I made a game called Dada: Stagnation In Blue (it's a shortie):
http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~hooks/Dada.zip
Mirrors:
Dave Gilbert's Super-Cool mirror (http://www.davelgil.com/ags/Dada.zip)
Butt-ugly Tripod mirror (http://invis.free.anonymizer.com/http://dgmacphee.tripod.com/ags/Dada.zip)
It's currently at version 1.1.
A warning though -- do not play it if at work, school or you get depressed easily, because this game is very unsettling in parts.
And don't let children play it either.
Thank you.
veryweirdguy -- the mirror you posted now doesn't work for some reason. :-\
Interesting, quite a depressing tale of events, but with the world these days, it's hard to be offended.
I don't know whether I even liked it or not but I can see the inspirations from the art.
It does make you think a for a while after playing it though, it's still churning in my mind.
I managed to download it without any problems...
It's indeed not a game to be played when you're feeling down. As said before, it's... odd. I just stopped playing for a moment, but it's still in me head.
Arrgh. :)
I'll try to provide a mirror...
Get it here (http://us.f1f.yahoofs.com/users/47d92d7d/bc/games/DG%27s+game.zip?bfyEUH_AHuRQdEp6)
Dear God, I hope it works...
You can call me stupid, you can call me ignorant but I don't get it. This is what I think about it.
Spoiler
Why are you helping people kill themselves? Shouldn't you be helping them in a world full of hate and pain by supporting them instead of trying to help them to die? Why do you help the wife beater? If I had seen someone doing this right infront of me I would kill him where he stands. I am not an evil person but if people like hurting others either physically or mentally I have no problem with them being put into a great deal of pain, (as the Bible says "An eye for an eye"). Though the game kind of reminded me about what has been happening here resently (sp) with the hate threads and people leaving.
Could someone explain this as I have no knowledge about art as some of my thoughts about what was happening in the game may be wrong.
Thanks,
Peaceman:
Spoiler
I think you've actually got it without realising it -- In many ways, the game is meant to challenge your perception.
However, I'm not going into any deep analysis for you because I think it means something different for everyone.
I would like to hear what others think it all means.
Social criticsm is a nutshell!
I enjoyed this game, especially the atmosphere. I loved the abstract art, which fit perfectly with the mood of the game.
Spoiler
My take on things:
The game begins with a moody person asking for a knife, and ends with him killing himself. In between the player gets to see the raw 'evil'. Non of this cosmetic, favoured, 'evils' we see on the news, but things as they are: Depression due to looks (of a very pretty girl), supported wife-beating, war. The art only makes these scenes twice as strong. In the end, that person, after seeing the 'evils' of our world face to face ends his life. As for the fetus, I am still wondering about it.
hmmm. This game has issues
I'm stuck:
Spoiler
I have diamonds, water, tears, have been to four locations. what next?
Spoiler
Call out to the boatkeeper across the river
Thanks, finished it. Must say, "dada" is the right word.... maybe 80 years too late for that though. Also, as far as the adventury elements go, it was hard to figure out what to do next in many places; the hotspots were not reallly clear (under the bridge for example). The intro was very nice, though.
Interesting game - more of the same please.
=A=
rookworm: It's a shame they didn't have computers 80 years ago.
And yes a lot of the stuff was hard to figure out -- then again, I think the whole game is a series of arbitrary links.
aurynnz: Glad you liked it, but it might be a while before I do another Dada game.
What about a Mama game?
But seriosly folks....good job DG. It was interesting. Can't say I have any real interesting ideas about it...but it makes you think. If it, at least, does that, even if you don't reach a conclusion, than I feel it's a success.
-MillsJROSS
great atmosphere in your game DG!!!!
I enjoyed it a lot!
great. :D
Interesting idea DGM! I won't say i loved the game, but i certainly appreciate the experiment.
If you don't mind some critics: i understand this is an artistic game... but as with 80%-90% of modern art, i have a feeling the "art" is just a word used by people to cover up the fact they actually don't have much to say. True, you opened up some interesting topics and there are some wonderfully executed scenes (the first one and the one with abused wife for example)... but in whole, i think it's not developed enough. It doesn't really explore the advantages of interactivity and it feels a bit rushed. Instead of pulling you into the atmophere&hidden messages, puzzles seem forced and only alienate the player from the action on screen (to the point, i didn't feel anything while playing the game).
Anyway, hope you don't mind the critic. It's interesting as it is... i just feel it could be even better. I know you tried to keep spontaneousness of, let's say, painting an abstract picture- but i think games (or movies) are different medium and they need to be more thought out (and as a result take more time to make) if you wish them to be effective.
I appreciated your criticism greatly, Igor.
I can understand why you didn't like the game -- I never really made the game with the intention of anyone liking it, so it was expected.
As for the "game" and "puzzles" (and I use both words very loosely as you probably would too), I agree they do seem rushed -- but I didn't do that because of lack of time.
I think the game provided a catharsis for a moment of depression I had -- The Uni holidays are almost over and my accomplishments during the time are zero, which left me feeling a little saddened (expecially when I compared to my previous Uni holiday, where I accomplished a great deal).
Hence the title, "Stagnation in Blue".
I could have spent another day working on the exact specifics of interactions so that other people would enjoy the "game" -- but that would just labour how I feel and thus ruin my own satisfaction.
You're right -- I didn't really have anything to say in the "game", cause I didn't intend to.
It was interesting to read people's interpretations of it though.
However, I do want to make another Dada game (one prehaps a little more user-friendly and game-like) and your comments are very helpful in developing the next project.
Still got to finish Dark Hero first, though.
Glad to hear about Dark Hero! I was playing the demo and loved it :)
About Dada- It's not that i didn't like the game... i just didn't really care about what's going on. I figured the whole game was more of a personal search. However, in my opinion, such experiments translates much better in paintings, music or poetry than in games where the audience isn't just a passive observer, but they need to interact too (and so they need to be stimulated in some way to play their part). Also the process of making a game is much less personal and direct than with painting a picture. For a game, you need to first create graphics, then put them in AGS and then script it, etc.... while for a painting you just need some colors and canvas to directly "pour" your temporary feelings in picture.
Not that i don't think it's possible to create a good abstract game- quite contrary (some scenes in Dada, for example, were great)... but in my opinion, it shouldn't mimic already established rules of classic "art", but create some completely new mechanics, that would make an advantage of interactions.
I disagree with that.
There was an article in an ST Format magazine years and years go (obviously, as it was an Atari ST magazine), and it quoted Godard with the following:
"Photography is the truth. Cinema is twenty four truths a second."
Then it cam back with:
"Multimedia is the truth at 12Mhz."
My point in using this quote is not to argue the point of truth (whether it's absolute or not), but to demonstrate the old McLuhan adage "The medium is the message."
Like other mediums (such as painting, photography, cinema, books, etc), multimedia is a form of relating a particular "truth", especially personal truths.
The reason why multimedia hasn't expanded greatly into "artistic" areas is because gamers are more used to conventional games.
The same thing happened to the film industry.
During the 20s, people would often go see fairly standard and conventional Hollywood films.
During this periomd, Salvador Dali wrote a film called Un chien andalou with Luis Bunuel in 1929.
People hated it -- And understandably, as a 1920s public would detest scenes of a eye being slit open, severed hands, rotting donkeys, etc.
Bunuel even brought stones with him to throw at the critics during the premiere.
However, flashforward to the 40s and you have Dali working in conjunction with Hitchcock on Spellbound -- although I'm not a Hitchcock fan I appreciate his ability to bend the "rules" of cinema, if not break them.
Spellbound was quite a success, partially due to Hitchcock, and paritallly because films of the 40s started to embrace psycho-analytical theories into stories.
Flashforward to the 60s and you have more great directors who really challenged the rules of cinema: Kubrick, Godard, Fellini, Norman Jewison, and John Schlesinger (who died yesterday :( ).
These directrors (Hitchcock, Kubrick, Godard, Fellini) influenced a new breed of filmmaker in the 70s -- one who went all out in experimentation and artistic development, and people would go to see their films -- such directors include Dennis Hopper (Easy Rider), Robert Altman (MASH), Francis Ford Coppola (Apocalypse Now, The Conversation, The Godfather), Martin Scorsese (Mean Streets, Taxi Driver), Peter Bogdanovich (The Last Picture Show), William Friedkin (The French Connection), Woody Allen (Annie Hall), and my favourite Hal Ashby (The Last Detail, Harold and Maude, Shampoo, Coming Home).
These 70s directors broke the "rules" of cinema, only because their predecessors broke and bent some "rules" before them.
However, go back to Dali who used the surrealistic artistic movement he was famous for as part of his 17 minute film in 1929, and not many liked it.
It was because they weren't realy for it -- they prefered the conventional styles of cinema.
It's only when critics look back and see what a masterpiece it was and how ahead of its time it was -- even though people didn't appreciate it then.
However, I'm no Dali -- far from it.
But I believe the same thing is happening is the gaming industry: gamers today prefer conventional styles of games and don't jump at more personal "arty" games -- But, who knows what will happen in the future?
I also disagree that games shouldn't have influence from artistic styles -- there have been some successful commercial projects that include great amounts of artistic influnce.
For example, Grim Fandango wouldn't be the same game without influence from Incan and Mayan art styles.
Also, look up interactive projects from musicians such as Peter Gabriel -- His Xplora project from 1994 was very successful, won several awards, was very well designed and informative, and yet it was very personal and artistic too.
That is why I believe AGS creates a type of canvas for the artist to "pour" their heart/soul/feelings/message/truth/etc and it's much the same as any medium.
Artists are never limited by the tools they use -- they're only limited by themselves.
As a side point of interest, I was interested to read this:
QuoteGlad to hear about Dark Hero! I was playing the demo and loved it
To be fairly honest, the demo (and game) is fairly conventional in terms of AGS's usage.
However, you also state this about Dada:
Quotebut in my opinion, it shouldn't mimic already established rules of classic "art", but create some completely new mechanics, that would make an advantage of interactions.
It struck me as odd that you'd praise a fairly conventional game like Dark Hero, and yet say that a "game" like Dada should make better use of AGS's interactive environment, despite the fact it was an attempt as something unconventional.
I'm not too sure if you have too high of an expectation of Dada, but I'm interested to know why you'd praise something conventional and then say something unconventional should make better use of AGS's environment.
It seems like a contradiction.
I bring this up not as a smartarse point to criticise you, but I am keenly interested in why you make such a contradiction of expectation in an interactive environment.
To me it's similar to saying: "I don't drink Skim Milk because it contains fat, but I drink Full Cream Milk because I enjoy the taste."
I would sincerely like to hear an elaboration on this distinction and contradiction -- maybe you can explain it better to me (and this could also add to the whole Game Theory discussion in the Gen forum).
Speak to you soon.
I think, it's not about game being "conventional" or "unconventional". It's about how well it does what it does. Simple as that. Dark Hero is great, because it captures player's interest and it gives you a reason to play on. Dada on the other hand is trying to be "art" just for the sake of being "art" and it also means more to author than to audience. Game-play wise, it's actually just as conventional as Dark Hero, except the puzzles are not as thought out and it feels rushed.
About games as art- it's certainly possible. You exposed Grim Fandango as an example of an "artistic" game and i agree (ICO could be also mentioned here), i'm also familiar with Peter Gabriel's project. But you see, they all took advantage of interactivity&multimedia and there was a lot of thought put into designing them. Even if they borrowed something, they did so, to make the game even better experience. That's my only grip with Dada- it doesn't have any developed concept (except, obviously, for Dada-style art) and it tries to be too similar to classic (static) abstract art: music is there, but it doesn't bring much to the atmosphere... puzzles are there, but again, they don't bring to the atmosphere. Trying to capture *temporary* mood with games, only means project will be rushed, instead of actually being designed with thought and trying to evoke some feelings in player (and that's the only way to keep them playing- after all, that's the essence of games). Such way of "development" may work in paintings, but i don't think it translates well in game.
Again, i don't think movies should be compared to games too much. Sure, they use similar mechanics at some points, but interactivity is what separate them appart so much. In other words- what work in movies won't necessarily work in games and vice versa.
Btw, i'll be away for a week or two, so it may take a while before my next reply :)
QuoteIt's about how well it does what it does. Simple as that.
Not really that simple and objective as you state -- there are some games that don't do interactivity well and still manage to be enjoyable (I found Seasons of the Sakura to be a very enjoyable game despite the low amount of interaction).
Meanwhile, there are some games I've played which provide amazing interactivity and still manage to be crap (Such as Escape from Monkey Island).
QuoteDada on the other hand is trying to be "art" just for the sake of being "art" and it also means more to author than to audience.
I disagree with the first half of this sentence -- I never made it for the sake of being art.
And I also disagree with the second part -- Although I made it with the express purpose of a being a personal catharsis, it doesn't actually mean much to me on a conscious level (In a way, it's like when you sleep and have a dream).
Once again, I think you're expecting too much of Dada.
I think you are trying to find a life-affirming ideal (concept is the word you use later) in this game that simply doesn't exist and shouldn't exist, because I never would have made it in such circumstances as formulating a ideal or concept. (more on why later in this post)
QuoteThat's my only grip with Dada- it doesn't have any developed concept (except, obviously, for Dada-style art) and it tries to be too similar to classic (static) abstract art: music is there, but it doesn't bring much to the atmosphere
Which is ironic because I choose the songs that reminded me of death and depression -- I had more but they simply would have been overkill.
You make some other points about atmosphere, but I can't really say much else of the same topic as I believe atmosphere is something subjective.
As for rushing the project, I admit to that, but I've already explained why I rushed it -- It's was a project based upon how I felt at the time, and labouring for an extra day on the finer points of plot, structure, and narrative would only lose the sense of how I'd feel about the project -- Thus, I'd become distanced from it and it wouldn't be as interesting to me.
In fact, if I laboured upon it I probably would have ended up deleting it.
In a sense, I look at it in the same way human beings think -- in uncomplete thoughts and most of the them scattered around our brain.
If I turned it into a completely structured and deeply interactive project, it wouldn't feel as human and simple as it is.
I could have put the degree of deep thought into the project as you would have liked, but at the time I wasn't thinking that way -- It's hard to think in a fully structured fashion when you go through a bout of depression.
QuoteAgain, I don't think movies should be compared to games too much. Sure, they use similar mechanics at some points, but interactivity is what separate them appart so much. In other words- what work in movies won't necessarily work in games and vice versa.
You misunderstand my point here -- I'm using the film industry as a parallel to the gaming industry to show how sometimes people are not ready to accept a certain creative enterprise.
But I also disagree with the statement.
But if interactivity is the only thing that separates films and games, then the usage of narrative structures (and the deconstruction of such) can transpose between both mediums.
And narrative structure is important in adventure games, because (like your example of interaction separating games from film) narrative structure separates adventures (and not a lessor extent RPGs) from other games -- an adventure game needs a plot whereas other games do not (Space Invaders? Doom? Command and Conquer? You don't really need a plot for these games!)
And thus is why I think we can make many comparisions between films and games -- because they share similar techniques in narrative.
This was the theory I divised some time ago:
An adventure game needs two main things to be an adventure:
1. Interactivity
2. Narrative
Everything else is secondary (character, atmosphere, etc) to these two things -- though they do make the game more enjoyable.
Taking interativity from film is useless because they have no interactivity, as you demonstrate.
However, taking gaming narrative from film narrative techniques is useful, as is borrowing from books and plays.
Therefore, what will work in movies will work in an adventure game.
That's my theory.
And I can provide several examples of possible film to game narrative adaptations if you like (And they range from Pulp Ficition, Fargo, Memento, Gosford Park, etc).
Here's a question for you regarding film to game theories:
Play Grim Fandango and ask whether you shouldn't compare games to films even though:
a) The game is divided into a four-act structure like most Hollywood films (and contains similar plot points as most Hollywood films)
b) It borrows the basic archetypes of films (the hero, the villian, the sidekick, and the love interest)
c) It also uses film noir techniques in the mise-en-scene of certain scenes.
d) And it manages to spoof several films such as Casablanca, On The Waterfront, and Touch of Evil to name a few?
Sure, the only thing separating games and film is interactivity -- but if you remove the interactiviy from an adventure game, you have a film remaining.
Thus, games and film are very comparable.
This will all be in the adventure game story tutorial I'm writing. ;D
P.S. I hope you come back soon -- I find this discussion very interesting (In fact, I haven't enjoyed a discussion on adventure games this much for a long time).
I just played Dada an hour or so ago, and it inspired me immensely. I didn't have too much trouble with the puzzles, except "The Boatman's Call" (sorry, just had to make that Nick Cave reference), but I think it would work better without them, logical thinking seems to be the exact opposite of what the game is about. Although I see interesting perspectives in puzzles of association - solving puzzles by letting your mind wander, the monkey wrench puzzle of MI2 taken to it's extreme.
Anyhow, I'm not sure that I'm ready to add my two cents yet. I really just wanted to quote, and link to, Tristan Tzara's Dada manifesto. I think these paragraphs capture the game really well:
"Dada is a state of mind. That is why it transforms itself according to races and events. Dada applies itself to everything, and yet it is nothing, it is the point where the yes and the no and all the opposites meet, not solemnly in the castles of human philosophies, but very simply at street corners, like dogs and grasshoppers.
Like everything in life, Dada is useless.
Dada is without pretension, as life should be."
You can find the whole manifesto at http://www.english.upenn.edu/~jenglish/English104/tzara.html
GG: Interesting you mention logical thinking puzzles -- Maybe I was trying to rationalise something admidst everything.
Then again, maybe my mind's just a mess. ;D
Next Dada game, I might just make the puzzles completely arbitrary.
But I'm glad you posted that paragraph -- In hindsight, that is kinda the state of the game!
Quote from: DGMacphee on Mon 28/07/2003 07:25:52
Which is ironic because I choose the songs that reminded me of death and depression -- I had more but they simply would have been overkill.
Ironic to be sure! The selection of those well-known pieces in itself, much like "Best of Classical", "Great Composers' Greatest Hits", "Classical Favourites", etc., is quite depressing, mainly because it trivializes great works of art and turns them into easy-listening.
Also, I think the main problem with the game is not its originality, but its lack thereof. It's easy to make a piece of crap and call it "dada art", but without the historical context, the label does not really apply, as I hinted earlier. "Art" is not an excuse for something poorly made! Pretension does not replace content.
For the benefit of Igor http://www.sylpher.com/novomestro/blargh.htm
Hee hee. I love games like this.
well, now your posts really get me to think. After this game, and all that you said, I, and i think others, look at you under a different light. Now you revealed yourself more as a person with deeper thoughts, wider thoughts about adventure game borders, and now i see you more as the man on your current avatar, than the man on the previous avatar.
Now i see that if you put a smiley, i will somehow not see it.
I noticed the: Goodbye! I'm leaving until i achieve something!
well, does that have anything to do with the posts on the gen forum?
After i read this i wanted to say something similar like you about games now and movies before, but a mind freeze happened to me. Dont you ever get a feeling that you want to say something, but you actually dont have the words for it, so you would just think about it in silence, but when you actually tried to think you couldnt, and you would stay on one thought for a half an our...
Aah. I better write this in the morning, i'm obvously not ready for typing now.
I just wanted to say to you DG, that the thinggs, the points you just made are one of the most interesting i ever heard about games and movies and art. Well you should write a book, and i should go to sleep.
I'll probably delte this post after i wake up, and realize what i wrote.
Quote from: rookworm3 on Mon 28/07/2003 23:32:48
Quote from: DGMacphee on Mon 28/07/2003 07:25:52
Which is ironic because I choose the songs that reminded me of death and depression -- I had more but they simply would have been overkill.
Ironic to be sure! The selection of those well-known pieces in itself, much like "Best of Classical", "Great Composers' Greatest Hits", "Classical Favourites", etc., is quite depressing, mainly because it trivializes great works of art and turns them into easy-listening.
I never set out to trivialise anything -- I was only inspired by a great art movement that I've studied before, and great classical music, which I've also studied before too.
And even great poetry too -- How come you never said anything about the trivialisation of Anne Sexton's poetry in my game?
I hope you concede to my use of the art, music, and poetry knowing that I've at least read widely on these subjects and written about them (and been paid for writing some of those articles too).
QuoteAlso, I think the main problem with the game is not its originality, but its lack thereof. It's easy to make a piece of crap and call it "dada art", but without the historical context, the label does not really apply, as I hinted earlier. "Art" is not an excuse for something poorly made! Pretension does not replace content.
I can't help the fact that you think the game is crap, poorly made and without historical context -- as I said, I never made the game for the purpose of people liking it and thus your opinion here is fine.
However, I am BITTERLY opposed to you reducing a moment of my depression to the level of "pretension".
Las:
QuoteFor the benefit of Igor http://www.sylpher.com/novomestro/blargh.htm
I am going to reference you plenty of times in my tutorial, Las!
Czar:
Thanks for the comments.
THe avatar is actually a scene of Jack Nicholson from the film FIVE EASY PIECES (Hence the quote below him).
I would have used a pic of him from THE LAST DETAIL but I lent my copy to some else (Doh!).
As for the reference, many people have asked the same things, so I guess I can only reply: "Who knows?"
Quote from: DGMacphee on Tue 29/07/2003 02:53:16
I can't help the fact that you think the game is crap, poorly made and without historical context -- as I said, I never made the game for the purpose of people liking it and thus your opinion here is fine.
Actually, I don't think it is crap, I played through it, after all. I was just venting a little. In fact, I enjoyed many aspects of it, e.g. the idea of having a man in a trench-coat on a quest to get a knife for someone to kill himself.
Quote from: DGMacphee on Tue 29/07/2003 02:53:16
However, I am BITTERLY opposed to you reducing a moment of my depression to the level of "pretension".
Also, I can sympathize with your situation. Depression sucks big time, and it is an achievement to have made something like D:SIB while depressed. But why not call it therapy instead of "Art"?
Ah, now we find a happy medium!
I notice you use "art", as in with quotation marks.
You'll notice that when I also describe the game as "art", I also use quotation marks.
Read my previous replies to Igor and you'll see what I mean -- I use the word "art" in a very loose sense (and without pretention).
But I never made the "game" (more quotation marks) to be something more than it is -- as far as I can see, it's just a good conversation piece and without any great life-affirming insights.
But please, don't label it as pretentious -- I'm not trying to pimp the "new wave" of adventure games here.
Generally, I'm not sure this game is very dadaistic...dadaism mostly is about arbitrary non-sensical issues that are used to kind of give contrast to other, more important things. Dadaism is pretty non-pretentious, whereas this game has the pretentions of setting the player in a certain mood.
In the read-me file, it says DG is not responsible for any effects the game might have to the player, something which I doubt a dadaist would care to write.
As an expression for the creator's state of mind, it probably works pretty well, although I'd have to say it has a few too many overexplicit symbols...you could easily have created the same dull mood with less obvious effects. I hope you understand what I mean.
The game was interesting (I didn't really understand a few of the background scenes). I didn't like a lot of the dialog though; the main character and the wife beater seemed too happy. I think you used the exclamation point too much.
The thing is though, that since it's an artistic game it's hard to criticize because the fact that it's artistic is an excuse for all its shortcommings. There's no animation, minimal background interaction, inconsistent art style, and things like that. But I can think of several excuses for each one of these because it was an artistic choice (but that's just my assumption, and is why you can't really criticize it).
I don't think I got a lot out of this game though, besides a general atmosphere.
Quote from: DGMacphee on Mon 28/07/2003 12:45:03
Which is ironic because I choose the songs that reminded me of death and depression -- I had more but they simply would have been overkill.
You make some other points about atmosphere, but I can't really say much else of the same topic as I believe atmosphere is something subjective.
I find this curious because when I listen to Pachelbel's canon or Bach's air I definately don't think of death and depression. They're more uplifting than a lot of the music I've heard, but as you said, atmosphere is subjective. I just found it interesting.
QuoteDada on the other hand is trying to be "art" just for the sake of being "art"
Strange that that is the motto of MGM. "Ars gratia artis"
air on a G string always makes me sad.
It could be a EoE thing which DG shares, but I think it extended before that.
Andail:
I get what you mean, but I have some comments for reply.
I can safely say: the game is very arbitrary, with or without intention.
And to provide proof, it's actually just a collection of random google image searches.
I gathered the images, then made the game based on that.
I didn't have any set "mood" in mind -- it pretty much turned out the way it did based upon how I felt, I guess.
I doubt any human being can help this -- Even when a "true" Dadaist tries to separate himself from feeling, he still replicates that same alienated sense of emotion upon the canvas.
I had no pretentions as to player feeling, because I intented nothing for the "game".
QuoteIn the read-me file, it says DG is not responsible for any effects the game might have to the player, something which I doubt a dadaist would care to write.
I actually wrote that more for legal reasons.
The last thing I wanted was for some angsty 13 year-old to kill themselves after playing my game (which could have happened -- it's pretty fucking depressing game) and thus have their parents sue me.
Having said that, I'd still be very sad, with or without a warning, if anyone committed suicide over something I made.
It other words: just taking a precaution.
As for the symbology, I meant nothing by it -- partially why I'm asking for interpretations of it.
The game actually means nothing to me -- it was only a catharsis and I meant no actual point to it.
I mean, to go through all that and to end by talking to a dead foetus -- what the hell was a drinking when I came up with that? ;D
Sluggo:
QuoteThe game was interesting (I didn't really understand a few of the background scenes).
Don't worry, I didn't understand them either.
QuoteI don't think I got a lot out of this game though, besides a general atmosphere.
If that's what you got, then that's all that matters.
QuoteI find this curious because when I listen to Pachelbel's canon or Bach's air I definately don't think of death and depression. They're more uplifting than a lot of the music I've heard, but as you said, atmosphere is subjective. I just found it interesting.
and
Narangas:
Quoteair on a G string always makes me sad.
It could be a EoE thing which DG shares, but I think it extended before that.
Naranjas is right -- Part of it is an EoE thing, but it does extend beyond this.
When I was little, I first heard this song played at the funeral of a relative.
What the heck does EoE stand for?
End of Evangelion.
Actually, from memory the song was used in the Eva Death and Rebirth film, not EoE.
When I hear Air on the G-string, I think of LSL1VGA (you can play it on the jukebox at the bar). I get into that kind of mood where you're just too eager to make sophomoric jokes. *makes farting noises*
Hehehe, I remember that too! :D
Quote from: DGMacphee on Sun 10/08/2003 02:46:01
End of Evangelion.
Actually, from memory the song was used in the Eva Death and Rebirth film, not EoE.
Air was in EoE, during the Asuka/Eva-series fight; the canon was in Death and Rebirth during the credits sequence between the two segments (IIRC - it's been over a year since I saw D&R).
Personally I find that Pachelbel's Canon reminds me of the steps along an epic journey - such as someone's life - being remembered with nostalgia and regret (two emotions which aren't as contradictory to one another as it would first seem) as it all comes to an end; I can quite easily see how that would be equated with death.
The feelings I experience when listening to Air are harder to define, for me, however - it certainly contains the same kind of subtleties beyond it's mere beauty, but it's much more difficult to put my finger on what exactly they
are. I don't think it's just association with EoE (nor with Battle Royale or any other films which may have used it in a similar context), however - if you look at the sequence with the cherry-pop music playing while instrumentality is taking place, the emotional resonance comes from the juxtaposition between such a jovial - to the point of being rather trite - tune and the often horrific events taking place on screen (along with the less-than uplifting lyrics of the song itself) - listening to the song by itself, it is still almost rediculously upbeat, regardless of how many times it has affected me in a much different way during my numerous viewings of the film. Now look at the scene in which Air is employed; although there is a contrariety between the aforementioned beauty of the piece and the harsh, violent and loud nature of the fight itself, this does not account for the bulk of the emotional effect, which seems to me much more complex than that, and thus - as I said - much more difficult to put my finger on. It
is possible, however, that the subtleties of the music only became apparent once you had heard them in the context in which they are presented in the film, which certainly serves to make them more apparent.
http://diygames.com/news/index.php?mesid=770ime=1060575532&sid=43446.PfbnQmr (http://diygames.com/news/index.php?mesid=770ime=1060575532&sid=43446.PfbnQmr)
anyone see that?
the comment seems a little awkward but there you go DG
--edit-- removing offensive image
Whoa...
I should make fucked-up games more often!
Great game! Kinda different but excellent work. I like your style.
I'm a little stuck. I'm in the room with the wife beater, but I don't know what to do?
Then there's this http://diygames.com/index.php?p=450&more=1&page=9 (http://diygames.com/index.php?p=450&more=1&page=9).
Scroll down to "most controversial". Go DG.
The wife beater is complaining about his wife's lack of tears.
Ah, great game. It really made me think and it gave me a strange feeling. I think that the only minus of it was that the puzzles were kinda unaturally dumped into the game.Other than that it was a deep psychological adventure.The music and art were great. Although i think that those music tracks were ripped of from somewhere(i think i heard them earlier) but it was greatly chosen anyway.I just sit and keep listening... That's why i love AGS games so much.People do them from their own will and they are not ruined by commercialism.That way we get such excentric but great games like yours....... ::)
wow.
Very well done. Disappointed that it had to end. In a way, I agree with some of the other posters, saying that the puzzles took away from the game, but still...felt they were necessary.
nice job.