Eternally Us

[Igor Hardy]

No it's a bit of pop-psychology.

you can read about it here if youre curious http://changingminds.org/disciplines/change_management/kubler_ross/kubler_ross.htm

Thanks for the link.

So, the intended practical application of this theory is to identify when someone gets stuck at one of the stages (like in an adventure game!) and then help them move through the entire process in the correct order, consequently releasing them from their worry?

Or is it like that you simply are not capable of messing up the order of the stages, because you are programmed to behave in a certain way?

[GarageGothic]

The stages of grief model has also become a bit of a fiction trope. I remember first hearing about it in Bob Fosse's 'All That Jazz', but the last decade or so it's been popping up in TV shows time and time again. Sometimes for story structure within an episodes, or at times spread out over a season arch - I'm pretty sure 'House' used it at one point, 'Frasier' did for sure, Sopranos has an episode called 'Denial, Anger, Acceptance' etc.

Oh hey, look, a tvtropes.org entry for 'Five Stages of Grief, damn that was a pointless exercise in TV trivia then

[Anian]

Indeed, in that episode of House, Cameron is going through the stages instead of the patient, while House slowly crosses them out and makes jokes on her expense.
EDIT: just saw the same thing written on the tvtropes page

[Kweepa]

the PC chasing an epiphany that any half-way intelligent player will have worked out on the first screen

First screen? I'd worked it out just by looking at the colour of the top-left pixel.
Look at it:
It's so obviously the five stages of grief. It makes me mad that Ben and Calin forced me to look at the other 76799 pixels.

First screen? "Tick tock, Amber?" It's more like confusion than denial.

[discordance]

The tvtropes page even mentions Eternally Us.

[Calin Leafshade]

I think I was first exposed to the idea through frasier :p

As I've said before, it's not supposed to be a huge secret for the player.

The point was to feel empathy for Amber. Not everything is about 'solving the puzzle' or getting to the end.

[Snarky]

the PC chasing an epiphany that any half-way intelligent player will have worked out on the first screen

First screen? I'd worked it out just by looking at the colour of the top-left pixel.
Look at it:
It's so obviously the five stages of grief. It makes me mad that Ben and Calin forced me to look at the other 76799 pixels.

First screen? "Tick tock, Amber?" It's more like confusion than denial.

While I understood that we were moving through psychic landscapes reflecting Amber's emotional state, I didn't explicitly think of the Kübler-Ross model until the end. (For the first couple of screens I wondered whether maybe Amber had killed Fio, given the guilt and violence expressed.)

I was actually talking about the fact that Fio is dead, which I thought was made abundantly clear on the first screen. It's frustrating to have your player character fail to realize up until the end of the game what you've long worked out (especially when everything is so dragged out and moves so slowly). In that sense, Amber seems stuck in denial throughout. And it's harder to feel sympathy for characters when they annoy you.

To add to GarageGothic's examples, the Buffy episode "Bargaining" deals with her friends' reactions after her death. One of the reasons I don't like the five stages model is that it's so horribly overused.

Has anyone played Rosemary? It attempts a vaguely similar concept. While it's messier and feels a bit unfinished, I have to say I liked it better. Definitely worth playing for anyone who enjoyed (or didn't enjoy) Eternally Us.

[Anian]

Has anyone played Rosemary? It attempts a vaguely similar concept. While it's messier and feels a bit unfinished, I have to say I liked it better. Definitely worth playing for anyone who enjoyed (or didn't enjoy) Eternally Us.

Oh, that's a wintermute engine game, saw that but thought it was gonna be a commercial game. Thanks for the link.

Yes, maybe that part about you presuming she's dead was a tad annoying, but really ins't Eternally more of a atmosphere adn philosophical piece, than an "adventure" in a action sort of way. It's a journey, destiantion is less important and thus the ending (or knowing how it ends) is less important than the road you travelled.

[theo]

The atmosphere in this story was top notch! Lots of nice little mood animations in the backdrops too, I'm a sucker for those.

Also Impressed by the voice acting. How come it doesn't feel amateurish? it bothers me. hmm.

[straydogstrut]

I was aware of the different stages of grief - most likely from the stuff that pours out of the t.v. - but I didn't get the connection immediately. Yes, it's a well-worn plot device and obviously it's not original, but personally I didn't have a problem with it. It might be somewhat formulaic, but the delivery was superbly executed in my opinion. Everything in the game - from the characters to the backgrounds to the voice acting - just made it for me. I didn't mind that we knew Fio was dead before Amber had realised it. That's story development 101

I think you get out of it what you want to. It's an artsy game, yes, and won't appeal to everyone because of that, but I didn't feel it was forced. It's a truly beautiful game, and not just graphically. I'm not sure whether Calin and Ben were aiming for something that resonated on a deeply emotional level - probably not, lol - but for me personally the game was emotionally rewarding and for that i'm thankful.

Oh and McCarthy may have been a bit wordy but there's nothing wrong with that. I loved it

[Igor Hardy]

Not long ago I never heard about The 5 Stages of Grief. Now I see them everywhere. HELP ME!

A shmup about The 5 Stages of Grief: http://www.tigsource.com/2010/09/09/pax-2010-solace/

[Moogle]

ben can you tell me was there any thought to what happens to Fiona while you play as amber? or is she just dead?

[GarageGothic]

ben can you tell me was there any thought to what happens to Fiona while you play as amber? or is she just dead?

Spoiler

The way I understood it, Fiona was dead before the game started - Amber only imagines her sitting on the bench in the park because she hasn't come to terms with Fiona's death yet, and they used to come there together.

[close]

Edit: BTW, I didn't think about it earlier, but atmosphere wise Eternally Us reminded me a lot of Today I Die. Very different gameplay mechanics, but the changes in moods and overall structure are quite similar.

[Calin Leafshade]

Is it really possible to miss the point that completely?

Spoiler

Amber is not trying to rescue Fio.

Amber doesnt *go* anywhere and it is assumed Fio has been dead long before the game starts

[close]

[Calin Leafshade]

Edit: BTW, I didn't think about it earlier, but atmosphere wise Eternally Us reminded me a lot of Today I Die. Very different gameplay mechanics, but the changes in moods and overall structure are quite similar.

I just played that... it's awesome.

[Eeronaut]

I shed a manly tear.

[selmiak]

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was this featured on RPS or kotaku lately or something?

[Parafia]

Was wondering the same thing. Didnt find anything. Anyone?

[Mati256]

Calin said something about the game featuring in the main page of youtube.

Looks like PewDiePie did a let's play.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oCOuKk2H1Y

[Grim]

I was going to post here after noticing his LP of Eternally Us... but forgot completely;) It is kind of a big deal, really. Yes, he's a bit of a jerk and yes, his fanbase is really a mixed bag, but one thing is certain- once he's played your game the whole world suddenly takes notice. So well done, Calin/Ben, and to be honest your game is excellent and deserves to be in a spotlight. And it works well as a Let's Play video, too!;)

Now, where's that big commercial game you were supposed to be working on?;)Would you care to give us some news about it?