RON: Au Naturel

[wavigravi]

Well its not helping RON's future if there not willing to except a gem such as this. RON games of decent quality are very rare over the past few years so they shouldnt nitpick on the point of a bit of nudity.

[LimpingFish]

Contemplation required...

[vertigoaddict]

Contemplation required...

funny how that video is not available anymore...

[LimpingFish]

Wow, that is weird. 

Basically the video contained the following points:

1. No overtly violent game will be awarded an "AO" (Adults Only) rating, providing is has no nudity or sexual content. From the list of the 25 games which have been rated "AO", 20 are pornographic titles. Of the five "mainstream" games that received the rating, one was canceled, and the others have since been re-classified "M", after minor alterations. In the cases of GTA: SA, and Indigo Prophecy, these cuts related to sexual content.

2. Sex in games is portrayed in such an immature manner, that a serious debate on the subject is currently impossible. The video doesn't condemn sexualized imagery in mainstream games; indeed, it more or less agrees that it's to be expected. But until developers, who wish to address sexuality as part and parcel of the stories they tell, depict it in such a tacky manner, we really won't see any change in how these games are perceived.

3. Games are still largely seen as the exclusive domain of children.

Violence in video games will always come second to sex/nudity in our current social climate. People are far more likely to be "offended" by perceived sexual content in video games, than mass gratuitous violence, and far more interested in "protecting" their children (themselves?) from exposure to such.

I think RON: Au Naturel has simply fallen foul of this double standard.

[bitby]

The video that Limpingfish was trying to link to has been re-posted
here.
Interesting stuff, I think.  Makes me wish I had made a video game with a mature representation of sexuality.

Oh well.  Maybe next time.

[The Suitor]

After some delay, I finally played and finished it! Laughed my ass off and guido's floppin' cod. Hilarious!

I might, make a RON game, myself... this one has inspired me 

[paolo]

I think it's ridiculous. If they allowed Davy Jones C'est Mort and Mika's Surreal Dream (which I seem to recall depicts a stick figure urinating) they should allow this...

There is more precedent. There is a RoN game that features the chef, Lucca, naked, but with his naughty bits pixellated out. (You'll have to play the game to see why, and it's such a long time since I played it, I don't remember which one it is, so you'll have to play them all to find out!*) Of course, that's all in fun rather than for titillation, so probably that's why they have an issue with bitby's game. But as has already been said, it's a sad double standard that people think there is something shocking about the naked human body that people need to be protected from (like they've never seen one before) whereas decapitations, dismemberments and disembowelments are just fine for us to watch.

* According to the RoN site, Lucca is in The Chef, Purity of the Surf, MI5 Bob, III Spy, Major Bummer Dude: Lassi Quest RON and Root of all Evil. My money's on the first one.

[Dave Gilbert]

Bitby, congratulations on making the first worthy RON game since 2005!  It's been a long time since I enjoyed RON and its wacky denizens, so you are to be applauded and thanked.  The characters stay true to form, the dialog is great, and the puzzles are nice and clever.    It was funny and charming, and the fact that it wasn't allowed on the RON site is a crime against everything RON stands for. 

Sure, it's got nudity.  But the RON website allows you to set a warning flag for adult content and the game itself allows the nudity to be turned off, so I don't see the problem.  Heck, any argument against adult content was destroyed in 2001 when "Davy Jones C'est Mort" was allowed on the site.  if a scene of Davy Jones getting raped by a cow was allowed, then there's no reason why this shouldn't be. 

Anyway, great job Bitby!  I had a great time playing it.

[bitby]

@The Suitor: Thanks! Good luck with your RON game. Despite my disappointment over Au Naturel being rejected, I still think making a RON game is a great way to dive into AGS and adventure game design in general.  All the free sprites and backgrounds save you a lot of time and let you concentrate on story, puzzles, characterization, etc -- all the important stuff.
@paolo: Too bad more people aren't as inhibited and grossed out by violence as they are by sex.
@Dave Gilbert: Thanks for the praise and encouragement. Coming from someone who made so many fun RON games, it means a lot.  Also, thanks for posting on the RON forum.  I'm still guardedly hopeful that the administrator will change his mind.

[Dave Gilbert]

Hey Bitby.  No problem.    No reaction from admin on the RON forum yet but we'll see.

[Radiant]

I concur with the above sentiments that it's ridiculous to ban adventure games from the RON site on grounds of nudity. What's next, Jack Thompson suing AGS for depravity?

[blueskirt]

This whole controversy on the RON forum has to be the craziest, most engrossing and addicting to read forum thread I ever read recently.

Is RON a company, a franchize, a commercial product? Why all this corporate speak about administrative staff, copyright, legislation and lawyers and what not? Isn't RON a community effort? Who these people are to decide which game is accepted and which game isn't? Isn't that the role of the big RON rules and the community (by referencing to past chapters in future games, de facto canonizing them)?

That may sound as harsh and/or completly out of line, and I apologize in advance in case it is, but as an outsider and totally ignorant of RON community's politics and history, I have two questions:

One: If RON is a community thing, what prevent anyone, who disagree with the current "administration" from creating their own RON games database, including all games, even those banned for trivial and/or hypocritical and/or pseudo-administrative reasons? (as long you get the permission from the creators to put their games on this second database)

Two: You're probably trying to solve this matter diplomatically right now, but where is the "Either you keep Au Naturel, either you remove my games from the database as well" solidarity?

I thought community projects like could be a kind of asset, but when I see the amount of red tape and hypocrisy involved in the current situation, I'm wondering if it's such a good idea after all.

[LimpingFish]

I don't know any of the RON people, but maybe the person in charge is just a stubborn git.

Just a thought.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

All I can say is that none of the originators of RON seem to have any published objections, so why should someone that just maintains the library?

[Valentijn]

>where is the "Either you keep Au Naturel, either you remove my games from the database as well" solidarity?

I actually went as far to request this exact thing yesterday (I'm 'Turquoise Daffodil', I made the game 'Defender of RON' six years ago). I'm astonished by the fact that this game even sparked such a debate. I can't see any harm in it whatsoever.

People who are interested in this issue should really read the thread about this on the RON forum (http://ron.the-underdogs.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7=670&st=0&sk=t&sd=a). Apparently, the admins are afraid of legal action in the light of an upcoming law regarding copyright issues. And they're of the opinion that Au Naturel counts as porn, and could eventually brand them as criminals.
(Wow, this sounds like a plot for a game by itself..!)

[Radiant]

You know the irony of all this?

The RON administration is afraid of copyright issues (which are, I'm afraid, mostly based upon hearsay rather than actual law). And yet, the entire RON site is hosted on The Underdogs, which is a site that hosts "abandonware" games to be downloaded for free. And as anybody remotely versed in law will tell you, "abandonware" is in almost all cases in violation of copyright.

[blueskirt]

>where is the "Either you keep Au Naturel, either you remove my games from the database as well" solidarity?

I actually went as far to request this exact thing yesterday (I'm 'Turquoise Daffodil', I made the game 'Defender of RON' six years ago). I'm astonished by the fact that this game even sparked such a debate. I can't see any harm in it whatsoever.

Yes, but you are the only one who proposed that. Would 7 or 8 more persons follow you and surely the idea that their database become as holey as a swiss cheese would make them reconsider.

[MrColossal]

I just want to say that I wanted to play this game before the RON admins went crazy and decided that they were the morality police. I would hate for this game to be popular not because it's a good game but because of the controversy.

I also want to second blueskirt's suggestion and ask that anyone who disagrees with what the RON admins are doing, asks to have their game pulled from the RON website. Dave Gilbert, Grundislav, Creed Malay... I am going to have my demo and all images I drew removed from the website and I ask that you do the same.

[Creed Malay]

I'm on for this. Check RON forum  thread for reasons.

[Radiant]

Well, I made a rather lengthy post on the Au Naturel thread a few hours ago that I hope the local administration would be willing to respond to. I suppose I'll give them some more time for that; but unless I get a reasonable response on that thread I'm strongly inclined to follow suit and have my game removed as well.