*Mockup from project "Sphinx" UPDATE last post*

big brother · Mon 09/01/2006 20:17:15

Hey guys,

I'm posting here to get some feedback. This mockup screenshot is from the massive AGS collaboration project (named Sphinx, for now).

Basically, I'm designing a style that looks unique and artistic, while being relatively simple to reproduce (since several artists of varying skill levels will be doing the backgrounds, so consistency is clutch).Ã,Â

For more info on the project, check these forums: http://agsproject.proboards76.com/index.cgi

I'm looking for crits on:
A. The overall style
B. The sprite (design or execution)
C. Any part of the GUI
D. The background (this advice won't be as useful, since this bg might end up as a placeholder)

EDIT: See last post for update

Gregjazz · Mon 09/01/2006 20:43:36

:o

I love the simplicity. The boat, water, and barrels have that distinct Herge style to them. Great work!

Maybe I should contribute something to the project... I just recorded a bunch of foley sound effects: lots of different walking sounds, different kinds of shoes, different surfaces.

JimmyShelter · Mon 09/01/2006 20:49:46

Quote from: big brother on Mon 09/01/2006 20:17:15
Basically, I'm designing a style that looks unique and artistic, while being relatively simple to reproduce (since several artists of varying skill levels will be doing the backgrounds, so consistency is clutch).

For more info on the project, check these forums: http://agsproject.proboards76.com/index.cgi

I'm looking for crits on:
A. The overall style
B. The sprite (design or execution)
C. Any part of the GUI
D. The background (this advice won't be as useful, since this bg might end up as a placeholder)

Looks clean, and the palette is very nice too, a bit 'technicolor', gives it an '30s feeling.

Neil Dnuma · Mon 09/01/2006 20:52:45

Very effective color scheme! As much as I like the green and purple, I am afraid it could be a bit tiresome in the long run. A little less "purple prominence" could be a good thing, if it could still stay away from the usual black/dark gray shading. Especially on the lines along the dock, those are screaming too much. But otherwise the style is effective and should be adaptable for the BG artists on the game.

(speaking of effective coloring, where is Super Jazz Man at the moment?)

The sprite is good (great colors here), but the expression gives the impression he's a little lost/sad (I haven't read up on the game, so it might be spot on). He's a bit hunched. Usually you want to play a character you like identifying with, and in this case it is one who doesn't scream "hero". He also seems keen on spreading the legs far out, but with a little less hunch I guess he'd be able to blance himself on a smaller spreadout (sorry, silly sentence but I'm tired and it's cold).

I leave to others to criticize the GUI, it seems perfectly alright with me.

Overall a very good job.

EDIT: A quick example of less saturated/darker purples:

Pessi · Mon 09/01/2006 21:10:50

Hey, always good to see anything from Big Brother.

Since you're going for a unique and artistic style, I think the background could be more of both. The first impression is pretty generic. I see the BG mostly as functional.

It is understandable though that when you have many background artists you've got to keep it simple to large extent. Maybe you could, however, kind of finish off each background making it the certain style. For example, what first comes to my mind is maybe varying the outline width. Somehow get it closer to painted look, even if just a little. Otherwise, it looks a bit 'clinical', if that's the right word.

Maybe you could also make sure all the colors are as atmospheric as they get. Like for the example image you could add more contrast with shadows and warm/cold colors or something to that effect. As far as the lighting goes it isn't as exciting as it perhaps could be. I think you could add some interesting shapes there with shadows. I admit though, it is a day scene with sun on a bright sky so it is quite justified not to have so many shadows.

But it could enhance the presence of the ship for example.

As far as the GUI goes, my first impression is that the backgrounds for the options sign and the inventory items are cut from paper. And maybe it having something to do with the plot. Is it? But that's just a first impression by the screenshot. Maybe it would look something else in the context of the game. I'm no expert on GUIs anyway.

The character is excellent. I have no critics on that. Maybe it's helpful, though, to say that to me he looks a bit sad or down. What I'm saying is, I assume that is the way you wanted him to look. If not, then maybe change the posture a bit.

I wish all the perseverance for the project!

vict0r · Mon 09/01/2006 21:28:22

Wow! :o

I looks absolutely great! Cool GUI and BG

The Character looks cool too. Looks abit like a manga character

big brother · Mon 09/01/2006 22:12:22

Thanks a lot for the crits so far! When I have some spare time, I'll try to incorporate some of them, maybe experiment with several versions.

Love the specific advice, Pessi and Neil! I'll see what I can do.

To answer some of the questions:

The main character is a puppeteer/scam artist.
The GUI look isn't a specific one, but I'm trying to make it adventurous, like a brochure for a safari (blue stitching and African looking font).
Super Jazz Man is alive and well, I'm just doing the art direction for this one. I'm supposed to establish a style, design characters, and maintain consistency.

Snarky · Tue 10/01/2006 00:20:50

I just want to gush a bit more over this background. So great!

I especially like the waves. Those will be animated, right?

The simplicity in the lines and the flat surfaces give a really clean, attractive style. Very ligne claire. I like the purple tone to the shadows and outlines. Something in between your colors and Neil's paintover might strike the perfect balance between style and not being too in-your-face.

The sprite is wonderful. He has a childlike innocence to him that I think will really work well for the character. There's some interesting tension with his personality, but it also tells you something about him. It's not how I had imagined him, but that's all the better. Man, we need to give this dude a name!

Do you know what that green armband on his right wrist is, or is it just a decorative detail?

Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens · Tue 10/01/2006 00:30:36

I won't comment on the background since you've already defined it as a possible placeholder.

Gui- the whites seem to clash with the rest of the tones you have established. Perhaps something more towards a light mettalic blue/purple would work better here (with a somewhat lighter shade for the inner field where the items are placed).

Sprite- It's a competent design and well executed. There are a few issues I'm uncertain about, however-

1. There are two wayward white pixels beside his right arm.
2. The whites used for his buckle and knee patch seem too white or could use a mid-gray and mid-brown outline (respectively) or just made darker to match the tone of the pants/buckle more.
3. There is shading employed for where his brim extends over his face but not for beneath the cuffs of his vest, and the bracelets (at least the nearest one) could probably use an outline on the arm in that darker shade of blue-gray you're using.

Good luck with the project, I hope to see a finished version soon!

big brother · Tue 10/01/2006 04:44:34

Ok, I found some time to work on it a bit.

Here are the changes:

- De-purple-ized it, but not quite as much as Neil did.
- Got a bit more creative with the clouds
- Varied the line thickness of the objects in the foreground (not sure if I'm happy with that)
- Added a darker outline beneath the bracelet/wristwatch
- Made parts of the GUI a light blue color

Some notes on some of the other suggestions:

I realize that for a bg with a boat in it, it's very boring. I guess I can say that boat is not the focus, but that's a lame excuse. I didn't really feel like drastically changing it, since the bg is really there to demonstrate the art style. The shadows and lighting are boring, too. Maybe it's just a bad scene for a background.

Sprite:
There is no shadow on his arm because the cuff doesn't really extend far enough over his upper arm to cast one.

The two white pixels are the clip that attachs the bag to the strap.

I made the patch white to balance the white collar at the top of his figure.

He's supposed to be worn down and raggedy, since he's on the run.

Helm · Tue 10/01/2006 12:42:39

The problem is that the construction of the background, the perspective point, the angle and everything really do not seem to imply 'this is an adventure game' but more something like a pretty platformer. I suggest, especially if a lot of people are going to be handling backgrounds, to move towards a style with set one point perspective like in old AGI rooms. Anyone can draw an AGI room right? That's because nobody does anything tricky with multipoint perspective and lots of things overlapping there. I suggest you do the same. A sparse style can be pleasing without a lot of things going on at once, clarity is a boon to a multiuser art style.

big brother · Tue 10/01/2006 15:21:35

I like the idea of a uniform perspective for each background. I'm a little confused though, since this background does utilize a single point perspective (on the middle of the right edge). If it isn't too much trouble, perhaps you could post screenies illustrating your point?

Unlike a series like RON, this project will have quality control, so I can make sure the backgrounds stay consistent. Granted, I don't want to spend a lot of time fixing up other's people work. It will have to be a balance...

seaduck · Tue 10/01/2006 15:31:04

Hi!

Like was already said, it's thrilling to know you're working on a game project!

Please consider using an efficient/simple control system. The controls of most AGS games are so complicated and cumbersome!

My favourite control systems are from the Cocktel Vision's Goblins 3 (or Gobliins 2) (simplistic) or from the Polish game Teen Agent (less simplistic, still higly effective).

It makes no sense to describe them in detail now and here, but the basic idea is that you have only one/two types of interaction (describe, interact) and most actions are accesible by simple mouse clicks.

Goblins:
Ã,Â left-click: interact
Ã,Â right-click: inventory

Teen Agent:
Ã,Â left-click: describe
Ã,Â right-click: interact
Ã,Â top-screen-edge: inventory

Plus, dialogues are linear (no choices) and in case of Goblins, no inventory-inventory puzzles.

Something like this would be my choice when making a game, as it is effective, and boils down to the essence of adventuring, removing "puzzles" which are just TOO obvious (click through all the dialog options, TALK to person, however TAKE a rock).

I'm sure many people will disagree - but I just wanted to note that a game doesn't necessarily need neither 9 interaction types, nor dragging non-linear dialogues, nor inventory-inventory puzzles.

Good luck!

EDIT: Of course the "Talk to Lloyd" puzzle is totaly unobvious and hilarious

ManicMatt · Tue 10/01/2006 16:43:31

Seaduck, the left click and right click control method sounds nice, but what's wrong with choices in dialogue?

Yes, I like the ego!

Pessi · Tue 10/01/2006 16:52:28

I dig the thicker lines. Maybe it's just my preference though.

The clouds are great. Just the direction I'd like to see the style going.

I think the white color worked pretty well for the GUI on the bottom of the screen even though it's good like this too. The OPTIONS sign looks better though in blue in my opinion. I'd like to see more detail for it but maybe that wouldn't fit the style.

I like Seaduck's point on maybe having fewer interaction options. Having many gives lots of options but it also gets old to see always the same generic replies like "that doesn't seem to work", or "it won't budge" or something because there's really no time to make different responses for all the actions.

Fewer interaction options would give the option of having more specific answers when you try to do something and also remove some of the useless guessing, whether you're supposed to USE something or PUSH or PULL it. But then again, I'm not sure what kind of system you were going for but I like the idea.

Helm · Tue 10/01/2006 21:23:55

Let's take a trip down memory lane!

http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/original/1010537603-00.gif

in glorious CGA!

http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/original/1077549730-00.png

Atari ST! It's hip to be yellow!

http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/original/1074855322-00.gif

Manann's girly bed in Apple II colours of doom!

http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/original/942688648-00.gif

PC EGA wins!

All are one point, middle of the screen, the room is basically a 'box' as in in a theatre play. AGI style. I personally find this enormously pleasing and a great boon for scaling, character continuity and what-have-you.

Any yeah you're right, your background is single point (the box with the hook on it originally confused me) but the point is far to the right, which I don't think suits adventure games much. I don't know if other people agree with me, but constant perspective has a very pleasing effect in a game.

JimmyShelter · Tue 10/01/2006 21:28:56

Helm, the links of the images don't seem to work, that is, they work, but I don't see the images you talk about.

Esseb · Tue 10/01/2006 21:40:09

Moby doesn't display images linked or hotlinked from other websites. If you copy the links and paste them into your address bar they should work.

big brother · Tue 10/01/2006 22:12:07

Thanks for the pics! Much appreciated.

Does anyone have any thoughts on maintaining a constant perspective point throughout a game?

Sektor 13 · Tue 10/01/2006 22:46:45

Well, the picture is fine, although i would change gui, i know you wanted to make more newspaper-brochure kind of a way, but this white-pale blue is kind a strong, here is my paintover

-i removed options sign too, and add it to the lower right as it looks much better in my opinion, original one takes too much space - this option button could be removed too, so only F1 or something can be used for options