Adventure Game Studio

Creative Production => Critics' Lounge => Topic started by: Khris on Sat 04/06/2005 13:59:53

Title: 101st PFC Williams for C+C
Post by: Khris on Sat 04/06/2005 13:59:53
The June MAGS has very interesting rules, so I thought I'd give it a shot. I'll probably be far from finished by the end of the month, though :=

Anyways, meet PFC Williams of the 101st Airborne who's unfortunately going to be separated of his squad during the misdrops of the night before D-Day:

3x
(http://home.pages.at/choala/ags/pfc.png)Ã,  EDIT:Ã, new version:(http://home.pages.at/choala/ags/pfc2.png)
59 cols

I know that it's going to be difficult to animate him :)

C+C appreciated!
Title: Re: 101st PFC Williams for C+C
Post by: Oliver on Sat 04/06/2005 14:10:06
Hmmm, it was quite pointless to put this in the Critics lounge, because this is perfect! I looked at it for 2 min thinking what could be improved... . But there is one thing, it won't be difficult to animate him, it'll be nearly impossible  :P

Very good character, I hope you get your MAGS game ready!
Title: Re: 101st PFC Williams for C+C
Post by: Darth Mandarb on Sat 04/06/2005 14:25:22
I wouldn't go so far as to say this is 'perfect' .. but it is pretty good.

- The belt is too high up on the body.
- the patches (on the arms and legs) need some adjustment
- the helmut needs some work
- also, the color should be more green.  Their combat fatigues were called ODs (Olive Drabs)

Here is a reference pic of good ol' Ike talking to some of the boys from the 101st ...
(http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/brochures/normandy/nop3.jpg)

With a few adjustments this'll be a lovely sprite.

I would also suggest taking the colors down.  You could probably acheive just as nice looking of a result with 10-12 colors!
Title: Re: 101st PFC Williams for C+C
Post by: Khris on Sat 04/06/2005 14:45:22
Thanks, Oliver!

Darth:
I was using this (http://207.254.40.20/archive/screamingeaglevalue.jpg) as reference. Maybe that wasn't the best choice :P

I fiddled quite some time to get the helmet right. Here's my reference: click (http://www.angelfire.com/al3/giphotojoe/101st_Airborne_Division.htm)
What exactly would you change?

I planned on using frames with less colors for the animations, especially the walk-cycle. If the color change isn't to obvious when the guy e.g. reaches his walk-to point, I'll keep the hi-color standing frames, otherwise I'll reduce the c count.
Title: Re: 101st PFC Williams for C+C
Post by: Darth Mandarb on Sat 04/06/2005 15:22:55
The reference you showed was very beige :)  I was thinking just perhaps a little less tan, and more towards a greenish/brown shade?

Something like this:
(http://pserve.club.fr/Band_of_brothers1.jpg)

About the helmut:

(http://www.twin-design.com/ags/help/khrismuc_help01.gif)
Title: Re: 101st PFC Williams for C+C
Post by: loominous on Sat 04/06/2005 16:36:20
Quick edit:

(http://marcus.krupa.se/AGS/mg.gif)

x3
(http://marcus.krupa.se/AGS/mg.gif)

Nicked the helmet off Darth.

Basically made his posture more natural n lowered the belt/waist. By decreasing the width he'll appear taller n more adult.
Title: Re: 101st PFC Williams for C+C
Post by: What a loser. on Sat 04/06/2005 16:43:50
I agree it looks perfect now, great job all of you.  ;)
Title: Re: 101st PFC Williams for C+C
Post by: Helm on Sat 04/06/2005 17:34:10
the original one is blanket shading. Go easy on the AA with so many shades. Looks like velvet now. Harsher limits on the colour stages.
Title: Re: 101st PFC Williams for C+C
Post by: Intoxicatedowl8 on Sat 04/06/2005 17:52:34
Yes, he's right about too many shades.

You guys are quite getting the helmet right. Loominous has it a little better but it still looks like a jockey-helmet.



Lol, did anyone notice in the pic that darth posted, the guy in the front has a kar98?
Title: Re: 101st PFC Williams for C+C
Post by: Darth Mandarb on Sat 04/06/2005 17:57:02
Quote from: Intoxicatedowl8 on Sat 04/06/2005 17:52:34Lol, did anyone notice in the pic that darth posted, the guy in the front has a kar98?

There's a very good reason for that!

That's Lt. Richard Winters (played by Damian Lewis) from Band of Brothers.  It's a screen-cap from the episode "Day of Days" where he had just dropped into Normandy and lost his muzet bag as well as all his weapons (except for his knife).  After regrouping with some others from e company they ambushed some Germans and he 'borrowed' one of their rifles :)
Title: Re: 101st PFC Williams for C+C
Post by: Khris on Sat 04/06/2005 18:11:13
I just finished my own edit.
loominous did a very good editing job, luckily, I had already implemented his changes more or less when seeing it :D

I'll stick to my helmet's shape, though, cause IMO the tiny protrusion doesn't justify a whole pixel.

Here he is:

3x
(http://home.pages.at/choala/ags/pfc2.png)
Title: Re: 101st PFC Williams for C+C
Post by: Oliver on Sat 04/06/2005 19:21:06
Is it just me or does he look fat now?
Title: Re: 101st PFC Williams for C+C
Post by: Intoxicatedowl8 on Sat 04/06/2005 20:33:24
It's just you, lol, that's just his uniform.

Look man, not to be too critical or anything but the helmet just looks like a horse jockey helmet....


One of my favorite games, MOHAA did a very nice model of the 101st ranger's outfit..

Here's how it should look

(http://img7.echo.cx/img7/9123/shot0011copy3bh.png)
(http://img7.echo.cx/img7/7523/shot0012copy7rf.png)

lol, too bad you couldnt have your game out for the actual d-day, which is in 2 days


well i take it back..looking at your remake..the helmet looks a little better.
Title: Re: 101st PFC Williams for C+C
Post by: Darth Mandarb on Sat 04/06/2005 21:07:53
Dude, IntoxicatedOwl, why not convert those images to JPGS (or at the very least just crop out the helmEt parts) ... that's over 2MB worth of PNGs!!

Khrismuc - The new edit is much improved!  I still think you need that extra pixel on the helmEt, but I certainly wouldn't complain about it :)

Good job man!

@ zooty ;)
Title: Re: 101st PFC Williams for C+C
Post by: Sam. on Sat 04/06/2005 21:15:52
i really like thje new versiom, except the oldest version stands out the most to me, maybe a bit more contrast between the high and lo lights on the uniform.

P.S. Darth, PLEASE learn to spell helmet :D
Title: Re: 101st PFC Williams for C+C
Post by: Khris on Sat 04/06/2005 22:31:24
Oliver: he did :) Of course the uniform full of stuff isn't exactly skin-tight, but I've changed some pixels and it looks better now.

Intoxicatedowl8: I've played through MOHAA about a 100 times, I especially like the beach level. It's just like Saving Private Ryan, except EA did the obstacles right ;D

owl & Darth: I'm still not satisfied with my the helmet either, maybe I'll use the other version.

zooty: I've tried to make the "gradient" on the uniform as smooth as possible, it indeed does look a bit flat now.

Well, consider the new one version 0.2 ;)
Title: Re: 101st PFC Williams for C+C
Post by: skw on Sat 04/06/2005 22:59:57
Okay, I've tried to make my own paintover... and the result you can see here:

(http://www.geocities.com/arcanusmysterii/ags/pfc2.png)

Things I've changed:

1. the helmet, a bit improved and with a strap under a chin (but damn, this still isn't *it*)
2. thin figure and smooth overall (only the shoulders need some work, I can now see...)
3. small palette edit, a compromise between beige and green, let's say.
4. miscellaneous details - some face, uniform modifications and more... (I deleted those badges by chance)

Anyway, it's quick-made scrap, but hope it'll be useful for you. Great character! ;)
Title: Re: 101st PFC Williams for C+C
Post by: MarVelo on Sat 04/06/2005 23:59:28
I tried to compromise the two images as best I could, kept the original and used head/helmut (with small tweak), and boots from Skurwy's. Here it is. I personally think the helmet is alright now.


(http://img89.echo.cx/img89/5955/pfc57az.png) (http://www.imageshack.us)


[ img width=3X height=3X ] location of image [ /img ]


P.S.

Newblet question-
How do you post the images 3x size?
Title: Re: 101st PFC Williams for C+C
Post by: Darth Mandarb on Sun 05/06/2005 00:52:06
[ img width=3X height=3X ] location of image [ /img ]

(without the spaces)

You can find the answers to all questions of that sort from the handy dandy link up top called "Help" (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?action=help)
Title: Re: 101st PFC Williams for C+C
Post by: Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens on Sun 05/06/2005 00:58:02
I made an edit based on darth's image from band of brothers, I noticed the helmets were quite large.  I also added two shades for the face (mainly to make it more visible).  I also altered the arms, made the chest just a bit smaller, lowered the belt and altered the legs and boots.

original (http://home.pages.at/choala/ags/pfc2.png) adjusted (http://members.cox.net/veradin/pfc2.png)

(http://members.cox.net/veradin/pfc2.png)

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: 101st PFC Williams for C+C
Post by: MarVelo on Mon 06/06/2005 01:21:08
Ok I didn't like the face on ProgZmax's edit so I used Skurwy's on the body and helmut. I love your edit except for the face Prog! It seems quite serious for a player character.

(http://img292.echo.cx/img292/9241/pfc73nz.png) (http://www.imageshack.us)

Title: Re: 101st PFC Williams for C+C
Post by: Intoxicatedowl8 on Mon 06/06/2005 06:36:25
much better.
Title: Re: 101st PFC Williams for C+C
Post by: skw on Mon 06/06/2005 17:27:55
Hmm... that's really close to perfect, Taffyfom, but now [hmm...] his helmet looks a little too big and reminds me a Russian fur cap. ;)

(http://www.toysoldierbrigade.com/images/Dragon%20WWII%20Pictures/Russian%20Gear/soviet%20fur%20cap.jpg)

Hovever, the face on ProgZmax's edit is bigger and fits this helmet very well.
Title: Re: 101st PFC Williams for C+C
Post by: Khris on Mon 06/06/2005 22:44:55
Thanks to everyone for the paintovers. One reason why he looked a bit fat was the column-shading of the uniform, I've changed that.

Today I did his sideview and walkcycle. I'm not to happy with the movement of the arms, but if I keep tweaking him, I'll never finish my game.

3x
(http://home.pages.at/choala/ags/walk.gif)

Don't bother about the jumping pixels, they are artifacts. I used ProMotion to quickly create the gif, I didn't find a speed setting, though. He won't move that fast in the game.

EDIT: Found the speed setting & slowed anim down.
Title: Re: 101st PFC Williams for C+C
Post by: Chicky on Mon 06/06/2005 22:52:59
O_O What the hell is he taking!












I want some -_-
Title: Re: 101st PFC Williams for C+C
Post by: MarVelo on Tue 07/06/2005 00:38:51
This is great for the first attempt. The arm moves up and down too much near the shoulder. Just slow it down and not so much moving in general and it will be the best!
Title: Re: 101st PFC Williams for C+C
Post by: Raider on Tue 07/06/2005 10:58:11
The left arm moves faster than the right. They, (I think) should be going at the same pace. Also he seems to hop a bit (or is he marching?)  :P
Title: Re: 101st PFC Williams for C+C
Post by: Khris on Tue 07/06/2005 13:11:09
There was indeed something wrong with the arm movement. I did three frames, then exchanged left/right arm/leg to get 4-6. So they were going at the same pace. The problem was that the arms were moving backwards for three frames, then forwards for just one. I've changed that now. Check my last post for the updated cycle.

EDIT: back view

3x
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/pfc2_back.png)Ã,  Ã,  EDIT: ->Ã,  (http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/pfc2_back2.png)
Title: Re: 101st PFC Williams for C+C
Post by: Redwall on Tue 07/06/2005 14:09:18
He looks like he's leaning forward for some reason.
Title: Re: 101st PFC Williams for C+C
Post by: Khris on Tue 07/06/2005 14:46:28
That's what's so great about the critics lounge. You don't see an obvious mistake, somebody notices and it jumps right into your eye.
Thanks, Redwall!
Title: Re: 101st PFC Williams for C+C
Post by: lo_res_man on Tue 07/06/2005 16:45:11
umm..  call me french mime with wipped cream on top, but krismac, could you tell us something of the, well, character of the character. Some guys people have been editing the face, and I cant tell what pfc williams personality is. is it kinda sad and anime like your first post?(cept for the side view, were the face didn't match the front) to a rough n' tumble almost vietnam man like prog_z's first edit or a pro soldier like in the recruting posters, like progs second edit. giving some personalty backroubnd would be helpful.
Title: Re: 101st PFC Williams for C+C
Post by: Khris on Tue 07/06/2005 18:40:51
Hmm, let me think for a moment, lu_ress_mon ;D

I think his character could be well compared to Matt Damon's character from Saving Private Ryan.
He's young, went through basic training and then jumped off a plane somewhere over Normandy. He doesn't have any real combat experience yet.
I didn't aim for the anime look, it's simply quite hard to draw a face with 6x6 pixels :)
Title: Re: 101st PFC Williams for C+C
Post by: lo_res_man on Tue 07/06/2005 19:52:11
dont I know it! I've got this female lead who is an elf-orc and my side view looks fem and in character and like the how i pictured it, but I cant get the FRONT view right. ERR!