(http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8530/ok13ig.png)
Ok this suppose to be the front of some ghost mansion. Your friends are lost in it and you try to find them. Unfortunately the front door is locked.
I think I know what you're going to say:
- There's no good detail
- Too much textured stuff used
- No light
- Wrong prespective
- Etc.
So there's enough that can be better on this BG... so please help me.
Feel free to add or remove things on this image but I cannot ensure that your edit ends up in a game
thnx in advance ;)
It's not so much that the perspective is wrong here, as there doesn't seem to be any at all. Which is a perfectly acceptable style, if you want to use it throughout the game (see Kinoko's Gift of Aldora (http://kinoko.futariba.com/games/gift/), or Darth Mandarb's A Friend Indeed (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=12273.0)). At the least, it'll save you a lot of hassle if you don't understand perspective very well, and means you don't have to worry about character scaling.
Otherwise,I'd say take your own advice - look at the things you've mentioned and try fixing them. Depending on your sprite style, flat colours and simple shading might be all you need. It couldn't look much worse than that mess of filters, anyway.
Also, when I think of a big spooky house, it's more likely to have flowerbeds under the windows, than a raised concrete pavement.
You've used 300x200. The standard format is 320x200 or 320x240. I prefer the latter because of the square aspect ratio.
You are supposed to post here if you can't improve the pic yourself. You obviously know what's wrong with it, why don't you give it a shot?
I've fixed the size and did a very sloppy paintover to fix the most glaring error: the perspective.
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/redraw_cor2.png)
And, as you've mentioned youself, get rid of the textures. Textured pics tend to look unnatural and flat. Another good idea would be to dump those black outlines, especially the ones surrounding the lower stones.
Did a quick n dirty paintover. Is it gonna take place during the day, or at night?
I presumed night, as you can see. The window light casting is a bit wonky, but you get the idea.
(http://www.gamersport.net/largo/ok13ig.png)
For a ghost mansion I reckon that looks about right.
The story has got potential.. but.. would a scary ghost mansion have such low windows so people could sneakpeak inside.. and even have the light on so people can exactly see whats going on inside?
I would add curtains.. (if you do.. make them blood-red ;))
or turn off the light..
I think the perspective is really wrong, but like Ashen already mentioned is that it could be very cool with this kind of perspective..
I don't know if you know much about perspective (i don't.. so i cant help you too much with it) but if you absolutely dont this style would even come in handy.
Khris made a great paintover, just get rid of the textures and try to paint some stones on the wall yourself.. would look great..
EDIT: Hitman did a very nice paintover.. it's got a great creepy atmosphere.. but still.. those windows just can't go like that.. or add curtains or turn light off.. or both ;)
Try adding some handles to the door. Maybe some plants, too.
Good point about handles.
Maybe board up the windows. Some cogwebs here and there.
(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005JM3U.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg)
thnx for such nice and quick reply's, i'm sure they will help me. What I actually wanted is some help how to make such paint over and some idea's. you people call that quick and dirty but for me it's amazing. I think i'm gonna try to improve my BG now... Thnx again for the help ;)
(http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/4782/test9vr.png)
here's v2, this is what I change
- Perspective (ok I didn't change that, khrismuc did.)
- added a fence
- changed the pad leading to the door
- added a pavement and a bit of road in the front.
- added lamps and some light
I would suggest that you do not use much of the textures, as they can ruin the image (if you do not use them carefully), you should rather use solid color, or try to combine more textures and make them fit to the surface (like those stones on the floor, as they don't look very good).
What sektor said, and the light shouldnt affect the window the way it do now. Assuming the glass pane is going inwards, and the light isnt sticking too much out, the light wouldnt hit the glass like that.
But.. all together it looks much better then your first version already.. its nice to have lights outside instead of inside.. well done!
to Sektor 13:
Erm...I dont really know what you mean, as far as I can see all textures match ok. oh well even if they don't im ok with it.
to vict0r:
I know but I don't care much and I dunno how to fix it anyway.
DonB:
thnx, yeah it's already much better then exspected to get when i started and I like it the way it is now.
Maybe some small changes but thats it.
Quote from: Corey on Wed 25/01/2006 17:42:09
to Sektor 13:
Erm...I dont really know what you mean, as far as I can see all textures match ok. oh well even if they don't I'm ok with it.
to vict0r:
I know but I don't care much and I dunno how to fix it anyway.
DonB:
thnx, yeah it's already much better then exspected to get when i started and I like it the way it is now.
Maybe some small changes but thats it.
It doesn't really seem like you are interrested in improving your background unless people do it for you.Ã, As far as i can see, the only thing you did yourself so far is taking khrismucs edit, spent five minutes making a crooked fence, and adding some premade textures and filters. One can clearly see that the brick texture isn't made by you. Same goes for the sidewalk and thingys on the side of the house.
My tip: Spend more than 10 minutes modifying your bg.
I second that.
And get rid of the stone texture, even plain grey would look MUCH better than those obviously tiled, non-proportional, non-tilted stones.
You should also think about whether a ghost mansion would really be situated directly next to an ordinary big city street.
Vict0r.. what may be made in 5minutes by you.. may take 2 hours of Corey's time.
look at this quote from Corey:
Quoteyou people call that quick and dirty but for me it's amazing
..i think that says it all..
Dont ever judge people on the time they have spended on their backgrounds, one people may do it in 5mins and call it a sloppy edit while it looks great for the guy who worked like 2 hours on a worser version then the "sloppy edit".
He did listen to our advices.. he made the inhouse lights off and made new lights outside.. also he used a repaint with better perspective.
I don't think you are acting right by saying this Vict0r, keep yourself in control!
As for Corey.. I am glad you are satisfied.. case solved!
QuoteI second that.
Same goes for you khris..
I can see your point, but what i meant (it didnt come out that clear) was to make him sure that he is really happy with "his" edit. He should modify it until he is happy with it. Ask himself if this is how he really wants it, and if he would want it to be better if he had the opportunity. And hopefully, he wants it to be his work of art, not just someone elses paintover. For example, the fence. Perhaps add reflection from the lamp or something like that.
Quote from: khrismuc on Wed 25/01/2006 18:27:55
And get rid of the stone texture, even plain grey would look MUCH better than those obviously tiled, non-proportional, non-tilted stones.
Even if it takes half an hour more to make it. You shouldnt take shortcuts if you want the outcome to be good.
QuoteI can see your point, but what i meant (it didnt come out that clear) was to make him sure that he is really happy with "his" edit. He should modify it until he is happy with it. Ask himself if this is how he really wants it, and if he would want it to be better if he had the opportunity. And hopefully, he wants it to be his work of art, not just someone elses paintover. For example, the fence. Perhaps add reflection from the lamp or something like that.
That sounds way betterÃ, ;D, i agree with you he should modify it till he is happy..
but sounded to me like he is pretty happy with it now..
QuoteI know but I don't care much and I dunno how to fix it anyway.
Back ontopic now :)
Quote from: vict0r on Wed 25/01/2006 16:30:16
One can clearly see that the brick texture isn't made by you. Same goes for the sidewalk and thingys on the side of the house.
lol how ironic... :P let me tell you why: Those things arent premade. I made them all myself, I used a turorial a friend of mine made. your right about the sidewalk thought, that one comes from paintshop pro.
anyway i'm satishfied with the image is it is now. I think I worked long enough on it. I only used one paint over (atleast i think )and i fallowed all the tips people gave (well almost).
DonB, you might have made a wild geuss on the time i've spend but you're right it was 2 hours :P
Quote from: Corey on Wed 25/01/2006 19:03:07
lol how ironic... :P let me tell you why: Those things arent premade. I made them all myself, I used a turorial a friend of mine made. your right about the sidewalk thought, that one comes from paintshop pro.
When you say that you made them yourself, you mean that you took a picture of some stones and put them side by side on the paintover khrismuc so kindly made so you could understand one of the things that were wrong with your background. It is oh, so clear that this is a picture of some rocks put side by side! And if you still say that you made them using a tutorial, why dont you post the link to this precious tutorial?
EDIT: (http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/crappy_corey_thingy.PNG)
Just made this to show everyone what i mean. Same colour on same rocks. See a pattern here? And the wall thingy is the exact thing on each side ;)
http://k256.superihost.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=28#28
there you go...
and I dont care about the patern, you didnt have to show me, like I didnt noticed
Heh :P I meant the bricks on the small path up to the house.
Quote from: Corey on Wed 25/01/2006 19:44:53
and I dont care about the patern, you didnt have to show me, like I didnt noticed
Well, if you noticed, you should see that it doesn't look right! If you want to make games people want to play, you should make an effort with the art!
Hi Corey!
A few people have been a little 'harsh' with you but I think that you should listen to their advice. From what I can tell you already know what the issues with your image are and want to be 'shown' how it is you can improve. It's great that your eager to get your art up to a high standard. However in my opinion you seem to be a little defensive when it comes to the more negative criticism. You really should prepare yourself for both types of criticism when you post your artwork and ask for people to crticize it. Your second version is an improvement but it's stil a bit of a 'mess'. Filters.. I know people have said this a few times but it's really advice you should at least consider listening too. Filters just make everything look and 'feel' cheap. It's obivious that your trying to improve and I think you can if you listen a little better. Already the image has improved quite a lot and if you spend an hour or two more on it then it can only get better.
Good luck with your art :)
My God Vict0r, I didn't remember you as an E-thug. Seriously, instead of yelling at the kid and trying to prove that your right in 3 posts, just help him.
In my oppinion there is nothing wrong with it, if he wants to go with a style based on oversized textures, no perspective, and lighting psp plugins, more power too him. I did the same thing when I started. Practice makes perfect.
Instead of texturing it all at once Corey make wireframe outlines.That way you can easily try both colored and textured bgs.
WOAH!
I was just reading this thread (since I'm posting my own BG for criticism), and saw the finished BG... I didn't even notice it was a real picture of rocks! That's pretty good.
Well, anyway, I just wanted to say that, don't really know why but it's better than mine. Only thing I did notice was the fence-I'd work on that fence more.
Well, that's just an opinion from a 13-year-old who knows nothing about backgrounds or art. Since most of your players are going to be kind of like me anyway...
Anyway, good job, bye.
..Am I the only one who thinks the fence is good as it is?? ;D
Quote from: DonB on Thu 26/01/2006 12:32:17
..Am I the only one who thinks the fence is good as it is?? ;D
no lol, I think it's ok the way it is... afterall it's a spooky mansion :)
Quote from: Moox on Thu 26/01/2006 04:56:20
My God Vict0r, I didn't remember you as an E-thug. Seriously, instead of yelling at the kid and trying to prove that your right in 3 posts, just help him.
Heh :P Sorry if i was a bit harsh, but after reading this thread before posting it seemed like corey really wasnt keen on doing any work himself exept the first pic.
Quote from: Moox on Thu 26/01/2006 04:56:20
Practice makes perfect.
One of my points! You dont get any practise from asking people to do things for you ;)
And again, sorry if i seem a bit harsh, but i'm just trying to help you :)
I never asked anyone to do things for me... I only used the image khrismuc made coz I really didn't know how to make it right. The rest I improved myself :)
Quote from: Sean on Wed 25/01/2006 20:58:16
Filters just make everything look and 'feel' cheap. It's obivious that your trying to improve and I think you can if you listen a little better.
This fella has a great point! Listen to what people say, and look at the different paintover people have done for you. And then try to improve it again! :)
EDIT:
Quote from: Moox on Thu 26/01/2006 04:56:20
...instead of yelling at the kid and trying to prove that...
The kid? I'm just as old as he is ;D
Quote from: vict0r on Thu 26/01/2006 14:47:03
Quote from: Sean on Wed 25/01/2006 20:58:16
Filters just make everything look and 'feel' cheap. It's obivious that your trying to improve and I think you can if you listen a little better.
This fella has a great point! Listen to what people say, and look at the different paintover people have done for you. And then try to improve it again! :)
thats exactly what I did, isnt it?? nah don't awnser, i dont wanna know :P
I wont say anything since you obviously are not interrested in c&c, even though you posted in the CL!
Good luck with your game!
Quote from: vict0r on Thu 26/01/2006 18:02:09
I wont say anything since you obviously are not interrested in c&c, even though you posted in the CL!
Good luck with your game!
cool a message from the opposite world :D
Quit it now..
Quote from: Sean on Wed 25/01/2006 20:58:16
However in my opinion you seem to be a little defensive when it comes to the more negative criticism. You really should prepare yourself for both types of criticism when you post your artwork and ask for people to crticize it.
Read my original post and you'll see I was quite sympathetic towards you. Now, I just think your wasteing my time.
Quote from: Sean on Thu 26/01/2006 18:38:16
Quote from: Sean on Wed 25/01/2006 20:58:16
However in my opinion you seem to be a little defensive when it comes to the more negative criticism. You really should prepare yourself for both types of criticism when you post your artwork and ask for people to crticize it.
Read my original post and you'll see I was quite sympathetic towards you. Now, I just think your wasteing my time.
no, I really appreatiate what you said only victor is bothering me :(
I am bothering you? I'm just frustrated of the fact that you dont seem to get the point of critics... Allready from the beginning it seemed like you knew all that was "wrong" with your pic.
Quote from: Corey on Wed 25/01/2006 11:33:24
- There's no good detail
- Too much textured stuff used
- No light
- Wrong prespective
- Etc.
Why didnt you just fix those things before posting then? :-\
Quote from: Corey on Wed 25/01/2006 11:33:24
So there's enough that can be better on this BG... so please help me.
Feel free to add or remove things on this image but I cannot ensure that your edit ends up in a game
What it seems to me that you are saying here is: "There is no need to crit this, since i already know what is wrong with it! But please make me a better version of it, but if i dont like your paintover, i wont steal it and use it in my game!"
Again, i'm sorry if i seem harsh, but i'm just tired and frustrated! Smacking someone in the head really hard would help me... ;D
Victor has tried to help you. He hasnt got the patience of a saint.However its not as if he is bullying you, most of his posts are blunt but truthful. Anyway, I was needlessly direct earlier but your attitude had irrataited me. My apologies.
Good Luck
The point of this forum is to get constructive criticism on your artwork so that you, the creator of said artwork, may improve upon it and make it better. If you don't want to change it yourself, or if you don't want criticism, then don't put your artwork up on this forum.