cCris - Demo 3-1 Up animations - what do y'all think?

[Adventurer 007]

There were no animations for the walk up sequence in demo game so I decided to try my hand at some animation.  I took the forward facing images and reversed them.  I can program anything without a sweat, but artwork isn't my strong point.  These took about half a day for me to create and upload into the demo to make the Player Character actually walk up and down instead of just left and right.

What do y'all think?

http://oi58.tinypic.com/2lm29o0.jpg


I should also ask if there are people here who are looking for an art project to do?  As I can tackle any technical issue (given time) even recode the source libraries that AGS was built on, but when it comes to doing the art, it either takes me away to long, or it comes out well ... not really that great.  If I am going to build a game I would need to either have an artist work with me or pay to get artwork.  Any suggestions?

-Adventurer 007

[...]

For a non-artist you are doing great.
The body proportions are not bad at all, the most weak points are the buttocks and the shoes. With a bit more exercising you could become really good.

I like the colors of the first better and the second of the trousers, they have more contrast. Do you have anywhere a background example? It never hurts to post it along with it.



EDIT:
My advice would be, that you start to pixel your characters with a little help of a dummy. At beginning it's hard to start with rich detail work. It'll be easier for you to dress it up. And you already see shadow points. In art school they would tell ya that a body is measured in nine parts. Yeah, I had to sketch a long time ago and I'm glad it's over.

[Adventurer 007]

adventuress: 

    First off thank you for the time in making the tutorial!   It is still a bit complicated for me to understand the proportions.  Meaning if I started with a blank slate and was trying to create a character who was a little person or perhaps rotund for example I would still be at a loss.  I am guessing the mannequin presented would be representing a average male?  The best I can do now would be to use that drawing and get an idea where the shapes should occur to try and define things like the buttocks and knee bend.
   
I agree, I like the first one the best.  It was the one that I did at the start when I was fully rested.  The rest were a bit of a trial of patience for me as the night wore on.  The colors given are from the original sprites provided in the AGS Demo Game so the colors there are different it appears then the first image.  I know she needs work on the bum for quite a few of the images.  Was the first bum better than the rest?

With the shoes I am sort of at a loss as I have a hard time some times envisioning how a shoe would look with so few pixels available. I was trying to create a inverted U on the back to differentiate them from the forward looking image.

The other challenge I was thinking about was how the body contorts.  The mannequin only shows a standing position.  Would that be why I think I remember a human like doll being given out at art school to allow on to change the body and study how it contorts in different positions?  I mean would getting a wooden doll object be useful in modeling characters?  Or is it just something that is learned and people have gotten good at?

Background example?  Do you mean the image on an in game background?  Here is the forward and reverse on the Empty Street (room 10) of the demo game.



-Adventurer 007

[Cassiebsg]

If you really want to learn how to draw a human figure in any imaginable position, then yes, a wooden mannequin you can use to train hand drawing is a good idea. And they are not that expensive nowadays anyway. You can also just sit and draw passer by people, that helps you grab the very essential features of the human body, since you need to draw fast (cause your model will not wait for you to take all details).
And we are in the internet age, so there are lots and lots of reference pictures and videos for you to practice. Meaning that you don't need to start with a blank slate, you can get a ref. picture and then just paint over it to get the right proportions. If you do persist, the you will eventually get good at it and will be able to draw a convincing human from a blank slate.

Good luck!

PS - And yes, the 9 "heads" is the normal proportion for an adult human, a child will have less "heads"... Here's a good reference picture for it found via Google:

[...]

Wonderful a little helper is coming, too.
I just had lost all my typing -.- , do not know why the browser closed all of a sudden, grrr. You saved me from frustration Cassiebsg, thanks.

@Adventurer.
If you are interested, we could mail and go a bit more into detailed conversation. I could show you a view more things to get started.
Hmm, I forgot what I were saying, but the picture shows it as I couldn't describe it better. Basically it's not as hard as you might thinking. When it comes to pixel art, it's mostly about center lines, geometric shapes and shading. Don't try to overdo it, the principles are rather simple than what you are trying to do. You are talented, don't push it to hard. All ya need are some hints into the right direction that's all. So don't worry to much.

Hehe, Cassie is right. I couldn't agree more.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Cards like that can help to give you a better understanding, how things are developed.
Sorry it's a big one, but a nice one. You can find plenty at google.

Spoiler

[close]

So, it's in a window now. Might be better.

[Lasca]

This is very interesting stuff! That card is very good adventuress!
However, I think that loomis sets the ideal human proportions to 7.5 or 8 heads, if I remember correctly. 9 is maybe more of heroic proportions?

[...]

I'm happy you joined us Lasca.

Well a woman has other standards as a man has that should be said, too. For example, I used for measuring 10px each section, seemed a nice number with enough air for corrections. For a woman to his side I would go for 9px. That would fit most common values out of my area. There in Germany, we only used the 9er model to make our drawings. Boy, there were times I had to draw every single hair by itself, can you believe that?! And there are more than just one way to get a happy result.


The card is out of an online pixel course, it can't be failed to get find. The picture is at the top listing. Sometimes I just watch it and smile.

After a good nap I gave it another go and finished my buddy.
Try it @Adventurer, try to dress him and modify to front few, you have nothing to lose.


Question
Your female character is looking so small in her world. Shell she seems so tiny or do we have to give you some directions for backgrounds, too? I'm always happy to be able to help.

[Adventurer 007]

So I tried my hand at skinning the dummy.

He is Percival the knight.  And if drawn well may be having adventurers soon
This is a first draft outline only.  I was thinking of getting that right first then going on to the detail.

-->


I was thinking the arms will have to come out as the armor shell (chest) is actually wider than that and it probably isn't possible in full armor to ever look like that.  But I would have to think about how to angle the arms around the chest.  Suggestions? (stop while I am ahead? lol)


-Adventurer 007

[Cassiebsg]

Yes, looking good, keep up the good work

Try rotating his arm a bit out on the shoulders, then drop the rest of the arm and hand naturally dangling down.
If you need help imagining it, then stand up, stiffen your body and imagine you have such a chest armor on, force your "shoulders outwards" enough for what you can thing and armor would fill, then let your remaining arm slap around on the elbow and hand. You can use a mirror if you have one around the house to have a better look how it would look like front end...

One thing, the elbow armor would probably be more V shaped, with the pointy end inwards to the body. And you need a shoulder joint as well. As you have drawn right now, you knight would not be able to move his arms up. Unless it's meant as the medieval straight jacket armor, then don't change a thing.

[...]

Much much better. Applause!
And make the legs a bit longer/bigger, the knee part than must be a bit bigger too. And put it also a tiny bit down to the middle, so you got the correct proportions. Than you have it my friend.

[Adventurer 007]

Arm movements:



So I tried to create an angle or small triangle between the chest and arms.  Raised the knee caps, altered the armor plating on the right shoulder as the left was the side usually in use for jousting, changed over the hip armor to more of what I was seeing how that should have looked, added more visor.

To speak on the elbow armor, it is rather odd. Instead of coming to a point in the inside it bulges into two circles above and below the crease. (see this image: http://medievalresearch.blogspot.com/2012/03/medieval-arms-armor.html#.VK-o2b6CWJU) I believe this was to provide more armor in that area.

So a few questions:
1. Does the arm area from the gauntlet to elbow look too bulky?
2. How is the angle of the arms? etc?
3. Do I still elongate the legs? and if so are we talking 10 pixels or more like 2.
3.a. And does the elongation happen universally, or above/below the knee caps?
4. With the knees I am guessing its the black part to move down to the middle, and perhaps make more vertical height on the caps?

Interestingly enough, as I build out the armor, because of the need for animation it feels like I am slowly getting each piece into its own layer...  Just like the actual armor would be separated.  So that I can rotate and reposition. 

Is it common for one to actually create a segmented "doll" type character to allow for animations, or do most artists just draw again the image they are keeping in their mind?

-Adventurer 007
(thanks for all the help btw)

[Cassiebsg]

Looking nice.
I did like the first helmet better though, it "looked" kind of sad and evil at the same time... like in it self had an expression.
 
Also, you can add a zoom to your picture.
just write [ imgzoom ] instead for [ img ] (no spaces) - or you can use the icon with the 4 little red arrows to insert a zoomable picture. like this:

[imgzoom]https://adventurersite.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/percival-arm.png[/imgzoom]

To speak on the elbow armor, it is rather odd. Instead of coming to a point in the inside it bulges into two circles above and below the crease. (see this image: http://medievalresearch.blogspot.com/2012/03/medieval-arms-armor.html#.VK-o2b6CWJU) I believe this was to provide more armor in that area.

Yes, it does look odd, but looking at it, makes sense in a way.
Good job getting a ref. picture btw. So guess The V shape is the opposite of what I thought it was.

1. Does the arm area from the gauntlet to elbow look too bulky?

No, but it's needing an indent (probably just 1 pixel out will do the job). The arm is flowing right in the same line as the armor, losing it's "thickness" and bulkiness...

2. How is the angle of the arms? etc?

I like it.

I am slowly getting each piece into its own layer...  Just like the actual armor would be separated.  So that I can rotate and reposition. 

Is it common for one to actually create a segmented "doll" type character to allow for animations, or do most artists just draw again the image they are keeping in their mind?

Yes and no.
Most good and professional animators just make a new layer and draw the new position over the old one. this will provide the best results.
But some (like me) aren't that talented (or willing to put up with the extra work), so they do exactly that, rotate the parts and then touch up the end result to get a better picture.

Up to you to decide just how far and how much work you want to do.

[Adventurer 007]

So I updated the bum for cCris.  I still really don't know where to go with the shoes.  Since the animation works for now, I think I will stop at this point and continue adding other content to the Demo 3-1 game as I learn the different aspects of the editor.  Like walk maps etc so that at least you don't get stuck in the museum.

Any suggestions for source material on the shoes would still be helpful as I will be getting the animation bug again eventually and want to revisit. (I think I will focus on percival for the time being)



-Adventurer 007