Hello AGS fellows... I am making the previous art for an uncoming (hopefully) game, and I´ve been making some costume tests...
This is... Arizona Scott? Well, he is the pupil of a famous archeology teacher, and he will have to deal with the nazis while this teacher is ill...
Can you help me to decide? The australian hat makes him look to old, and he has to seem quite young, maybe 20-25. I don´t like very much the dodgers jacket, as it seems quite dumb to see a person with a jacket like this in an excavation in Egypt. What do you think of the Yankees cup? I´ve been told that the Yankees is not a very loved in the rest of the US... What can I do?
Anyway, if you like to retouch it, trying to make him seem younger, feel free to do it!
Edit: If you wanna play, download the image and make a zoom on it... who is he? ;) Willis?
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/comparision.gif)
Wowowow that's some goood stuff. The only thing is, he looks about 30, due to the lack of hair, square jaw, huge neck and hands and general bouncer-look. I'd stay with the fedora (the blue stuff looks out of place), but modify the aforementioned features a little.
well... he seem a bit indiana jones/full throttle. If he's a student, maybe you should remove the belt and boots, give him more sporty shoes, and make the pants blue with the dodger jacket. Short brief: I think his a little too brown(Not a racist statment).
I like the drawing ...
I think if you're gonna make him Dr. Jone's student you should keep him 'in period' (the early parts of the 20th century) and I don't think the ball-caps were 'in' back then :)
I did this really really quickly.
(http://www.twin-design.com/random/farl_help3.gif)
* I made his neck thinner and generally made him less bulky.
* I rounded his chin just slightly.
* I gave him more of young-guy-of-the-30's40's-outfit rather than the bomber jacket look.
Note: I think his shoulders could slim down some still (but I think it looks cool and gives him character).
But definately keep the fedora!
Darth
Hey Farly, Great Picture :)
I think he looks a little to brawn to be a youngster
anyway, I like this hat ;D
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/forfar.gif)
Hmmmm, how about nothing on his head? I also tried to make him look younger with some small details, like blue eyes.
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/erwins-attempt.gif)
--Erwin
hahaha
just a little joke:
"and he will have to deal with the nazis while this teacher is ill..."
he kinda looks like the perfect nazi himself now :P
Yellow Hair, blue eyes, tall, strong ;)
If he is a student of a famous archeologist chances are it's his first time in the field. So he would be wearing a white suit with matching Fedora :)
sorry to be an ass
(http://www.btinternet.com/~ctswin/bleh.PNG)
Some modifications:
x2
(http://w1.872.telia.com/~u87210460/AGS/comparision_mod3.gif)
no zoom
(http://w1.872.telia.com/~u87210460/AGS/comparision_mod3.gif)
Will add comments later, main thing was to feminise face, that is give it more round shapes, fuller lips n so on.
Edit: Updated the pic with a a black/brown haired man that goes better with the dark eyebrows.
Quote from: Privateer Puddin' on Sat 17/01/2004 23:12:17
sorry to be an ass
(http://www.btinternet.com/~ctswin/bleh.PNG)
YOu AsS!!!1 ^_^
No probs... It´s true that the person who designed Ben and me were probably aiming for the same... an ultra-typical and super-stereotypical classic adventurer character... It is normal that the pose and most of the things coincide.
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/Bodytest.gif)
Here you have the original bodytest pic of Arizona... As you can see, the heroic pose is almost the same again.
I can´t deny anyway an undeniable reference from Ben...
Anyway, don´t worry for being an ass, everyone who I asked for in the #AGS channel (5 or 6 people) saw the same coincidence, if you are an ass, sum to that that you´re not even an ORIGINAL ass... ;D
I´ve been thinking in many of your entries, most of them are cool (Jan, what is that... that??? hat???) I´ve been thinking in putting him jeans, but then we have... Murdock! I want to keep the bomber because he is supposed to be an amateur pilot, and this is important for the plot.
I´ve been thinking also in the "nothing covers his head" option... but then we have "Broken Sword" and, as n3t said, a very "Arian" guy... That´s a problem. The Yankees cup gives him the american touch I need, IMHO... BTW, thanks in the attempt to make him younger, I think we´re getting close to some kind of success here...
Thanks for all the entries, specially loominous, whose posts are self explanatory, and a great help, vote for him to win a FOREGO!
the reason for the pic was the shading, mainly on the arm and boots ;)
which shadow??? Which boots??? LOOK!!! A THREE HEADED MONKEY!!!1! ;)
talk about a rip-off.
using an existing character for reference is not the same thing than literally copying it.
sorry, but don't expect me to give c&c on a work that is not yours.
As you can see, the pencil model was made, there is also another closeup pencil squtch for the face, and only the sadows have been used as a reference. Feel free not to criticise, but posting that is bashing. :P
Yeah, Farlander made this, he only got a little "Inspiration" from the full throttle guy. Nothing wrong with that.
That´s not the problem HillBilly... I didn t posted this to be healed, "Hey Farlander, your Arizona Scott rules!!!1"
I posted specifically that anyone who feels that can be able to improve it could download it and give a try. Plastic, You do think he is too Ben? Well, maybe I´ve been this last two days thinking the same and hoping that if I post it, someone can think "Hey, I´ll try to help this guy making an edit and trying to make it less Ben" What I´m sure is that I didn´t posted for receiving some... It´s a ripp... :P
If I don´t like something I just don´t post, I don´t post even if what I see likes me so much that I couldn´t help to improve. What I do not do is to post saying :" Hey! that sucks" :P
Thanks for nothing, man.
I didn't say it sucked.
In fact, my first thought when i saw your sprite was that i liked the shading. but the problem is that you didn't even try to imitate the shading used in full throttle, you just made an almost-perfect copy. hell, even the colors of the jacket are exactly the same.
I don't have a problem with the fact that you character looks like Ben, i have a problem with the fact that you copied graphics from an existing character.
It's your choice to do that, but i'm just letting you know that some people like me can have a problem with this proceeding.
if you still want criticism : the head is not properly centered on the shoulders. the hand is too round and lacks shading. the pixel-size is not consistent (look at the boots). the jacket lapel(sp?) looks flat. other than that, i'm not sure what is original work and what is just copied, so i don't have much to add.
oh, and believe it or not, i don't visit this forum in hope of finding someone to bash. if i don't like something, i don't post "hey! that sucks", i try to give suggestions.
but this time it wasn't a matter of liking or not.
That´s better... I am working in it, believe or not.
P.S. Download both images, the colors on Scott´s Jacket Arizona are not the same as in Ben, I´ve copied them from an original WWII bomber. Thaks to you I see that they´re actually too similar to Ben´s. Thank you for SOMETHING, now. :)
P.S. And yeah! The lower part of the painting need more detailing, I wanted boots to differenciate him from Indy (As you can see in the sketch) but now I think I am going to put him some kind of "Converse" canvass boots... that´s why it´s unfinished.
I think Plasticman has a point. Nonetheless, I think it's just because of a understandable misunderstanding.
I think Farlander should've made it more clear that he used Ben as reference and merely wants to get rid of that look and make it more original. I don't think there's anything wrong with copying as a means to learn. It's just that you need to make it very clear so no one will think you're trying to take credit for someone else's work. I once made some DOTT background copies and I got great feedback - mostly because it was obvious that they were copies. It worked as a great exercise and motivator for me.
As far as the character goes, I really like the pants. I think their shape is way better than the original's. There's a hint of Indiana Jones there but still. I think what you should change to make it look less like Ben are the proportions. Not completely, but make him a bit skinnier. I think the new hands by Loominous, for example, are great. They make a significant change without actually changing the proportions. Not that you couldn't change them as well but it would be much work.
Another thing is the color theme. Even if you should keep the same clothes, changing their color and details would make him look a lot different, I reckon. I think making the outlines a bit less Full Throttleish (thinner) would also help in making him look different.
Yup... Loominous hands work fine. I am making an edit, with clearer green colour for the jacket (they seemed green) and changing the boots. The truth is that my attempt was to avoid simillarities with Indy, not with Ben, It´s kinda funny that the main goal now is to make it less Ben. ;D
I´ll post here the new version soon.
EDIT: Revisited Version: Less Indy, less Ben... Too Street Fighter? ???
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/LessIndyLessBen.gif)
Thanks Pessi for putting peace... again. And please, plastic, a critic by you would be deeply appreciated.
Just a little bit of input.
When I saw your earlier designs I immediately thought Ben, but that could just be cause I'm a flaming homosexual who gets turned on by pixelated cartoon characters.
What am I saying?
I think the biggest similarities involve the stance and the shadiing; the latter being almost identical to Ben's shading (look at the highlights).
Here are my suggestions:
1. Make the line width narrower.
2. Change the shading. (Esp. the jacket pockets, they look odd being half-light, half -dark. Make up your mind, Michael Jackson.)
3. It looks like his belt is over his tucked-in jacket. Don't quote me on this, but it's prolly a fashion no-no.
4. Make sure they had all those things he's wearing in the early 40's.
This includes "look at me, officer" red sneakers.
The Final result11!
The original Ben Jones Willis has turned into a some reasonable original guy... I´ve used some of your advises, and I think I have it. The cup and the canvass shoes make him younger. The bomber makes his different from Indy. The thick lines, the redouced chest and Loominous hands make him quite diferent from Ben, also retouching the shadows.
All the clothes could have been used in the early 40s, as they´ve been copied form photos from the period. I hope you like him, ladies and gentlemen... Arizona Scott (the nickname is to honour the Arizona ship, whereas the surname can be changed, if you want another and think that it can be more appealing tell to me...)
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/LessIndyLessBen2.gif)
Farlander.
Well... Here is the female character of the game... As you can notice, she is a disgusting rip-off of Sophia Hapgood, because all you know that I am a mediocre artist... ;D Just kidding, really... Criticise, if possible, it´s pose and it´s body, as many changes can be made in the clothes (My girlfriend is the costume director, and I´m under her thumb... :P)
Have in mind that she is pretty unfinished, (hands, boots... ) just tell me your first impressions...
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/Jersey.gif)
Hi!
Very nice but
Quotejust tell me your first impressions...
she leans too much to the left, looks like she is about to fall over.
Move the balance point a bit to the right.
To her right? (sorry for making this a chat...)
Yeah, I think strazer meant to her right. That's how it looks to me.
I think it's cool otherwise but the face could look more feminine. Cause my first impression was to wonder if it's a man in women's clothes. Honestly! It might be because it's pretty small on my screen but I also zoomed in at it still kind of looks masculine. I don't know if it's just me though.
No... some other people told it in #AGs...
I think that I´m too used to the image to see how malish she seems (Sure that happens to you all sometimes, you paint something and you look to intm and think... It´s cool! After a time, when see it again you think, hey! That´s not so cute as I remember...)
I will take a look after, any suggests for making she more femenine? :-\
Yes, I meant to the right.
As for making her more feminine, I suggest shortening and lightening up her eyebrows and lightening up the area between the eyebrows and the eyes.
In short, just ease up on the shading of the face.
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/Jersey2.gif)
Looking to both characters I´ve realised that there is some kind of "bulge" in the chest of the guy... revisitingª
The only real problem I have is that if he's a student of Dr. Jones wouldn't this be taking place in the 40's or 50's?
I could be wrong, but I don't think the young'ins of those days wore shoes like that or hats like that? I could be wrong though ... I mean, baseball players wore caps like that (then) but it wasn't like now-a-days where everybody wears them.
Here's my take:
(http://www.twin-design.com/random/farl_help4.gif)
I changed the hat and shoes. The hat is supposed to be one of those golfing type hats and the shoes are more of 'zoot suit' era style.
Anyway ... feel free to tell me I'm going the wrong direction!
])]V[
Edit - The dark black outline around the center of the chest and the coat lapels is pretty strong! Were you gonna change that?
Hmm, in Back to the Future Part 3 doesn't the 1950's Doc tell Marty how he should be wearing sneakers because they haven't been invented yet? Of course, using movies for historical reference is probably not the best thing to do...
QuoteLooking to both characters I´ve realised that there is some kind of "bulge" in the chest of the guy...
Yeah, out here we call those "muscles."
Lol... Big brother, I was not talking of muscles, I was talking that the left shoulder (right in the filpped image with the girl) is to raised and seems like a bulge. I´ll try to fix it.
Darth, I was not very convinced with the shoes, I used them because they worked to make him younger, but I´ll probably use yours. As for the cup, I hope you won´t get in anger if I keep it, as it is a little "cameo" to the cup that the chinese kid (Shorty?) wore in Indiana Jones and the temple of Doom. That means that cups use was generally spreaded, IMO.
And ah! the action is located in summer of 1941, during the battle of Britain.
Some modifications:
(http://w1.872.telia.com/~u87210460/AGS/Jersey2_mod1.gif)
x2
(http://w1.872.telia.com/~u87210460/AGS/Jersey2_mod1.gif)
Sorry, can t stand to type comments for some reason. If anything is unclear let me know.
No need to say more... You´ve perfectly understood the "bulge" problem, I´ll use you edit, thanks.
Quote from: Farlander on Mon 19/01/2004 22:24:02
Darth, I was not very convinced with the shoes, I used them because they worked to make him younger, but I´ll probably use yours. As for the cup, I hope you won´t get in anger if I keep it, as it is a little "cameo" to the cup that the chinese kid (Shorty?) wore in Indiana Jones and the temple of Doom. That means that cups use was generally spreaded, IMO.
And ah! the action is located in summer of 1941, during the battle of Britain.
You're absolutely right! Short Round
did wear a baseball hat like that! The one you had used earlier (the bright blue one) looked too modern, but the darker tones you've used on this one are good! I won't get angry at all!! It's yours ;)
And you can borrow my shoes if you'd like ;D
Keep up the good work!
])]V[
Your sprites look very good Farl. The woman looks good too!
Is she supposed to be French? Because somehow she looks
french to me. The hair, the hat, the clothes. About Scott; he
doesn't really look like an archeological student to me. I'd say
he looks like a thug. Then again I have no idea what an
archeological student would look like so bleh at me!
Keep up the good work!
She is Welsh, (Maybe AGA´s nun, in a future? ;)) And he is not the tipycal archeology study... He is the favourite pupil of Indiana Jones! :)
I will make clear in the game somewhere that he is as good sportman as student, I think...
Wow, these sprites are awesome. A few ideas though:
I was thinking, maybe you could give him a letterman sweater (possibly worn underneath the jacket) to make him look more like a student/jock)?
(http://www.sandiegohistory.org/exhibits/vaults/images/sweater.jpg)
Also, I think his hair is too long for the time. For a great resource on 1940s hair styles (though post-war), watch The Man Who Wasn't There by the Coen bros. The Converse shoes did exist at the time, but I doubt anyone would have wore them when not participating in sports. Have you actually looked at the Indy movies to see what his students dress like? Maybe that would be the very best reference source.
Yup... I´ve been aware of most of the things you said, the hair and the costume. Of course, as Indy, Arizona will have to wear two diferent costumes, one for "camp" and another one for "campus". I think I´ll also draw two heads, one with the brushed hair (greased, maybe, as in the 40es people had long hair, actually, but greased).
Great picture, though... I´ll add them to my photo-reference folder (It is pretty filled now, air bases pics, jackets, cities...)
Thanks. ;)
Edit: Gotcha! Maybe the boots have more sense now? this will be for the university rooms...
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/AriStudent.gif)
I´ve been testing colours. Farlander thinks the colors are too bright... what do you think? :)
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/Jersey_Lore.jpg)
Lorena :-*
The colours of the girl on the right seem too bright, doesn't look very old fashioned that way. Maybe add some hints of brown?
I think they might be just a little on the bright side.
The first one:
A woman in 1941 wouldn't be wearing a mini-skirt. Skirt lengths at that time would have been below the knees (or lower even). And the blue of the skirt feels too bright. The pink sweater doesn't bother, just the blue!
The second one:
More suitable colors and feels more 1940's to me. The beret works too, though gives her more of a French feeling. The pants/boots look great!
Hope that helps!
])]V[
Farlander, I'm glad you could use the reference pic. I think the sweater is perfect for the university setting. I don't know about the t-shirt underneath though. Until the early 50s, t-shirts were pretty much consider underwear. I think a casual shirt, possibly short sleeved, although you wouldn't see that anyway, would be more fitting. But it depends on what you're going for of course.
As for the female character, I agree with Darth Mandarb that the one to the right is much better (the one on the left has a very 1980s look to her with those pastels). But you might even want to desaturate her clothes even more. I actually prefer the tan shirt in the earlier version.
how about this outfit??
anyone?? 8)
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/jersey2_n3t.gif)
Quote from: N3TGraph on Wed 21/01/2004 16:27:47
how about this outfit??
anyone?? 8)
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/jersey2_n3t.gif)
Replace the boots with high heels and you have a winner! 8)
>:( It´s a rip off from Hueij´s avatar!!!1! >:(
ah please, just one scene? ::)
Don't you think the name Arizona Scott is a little too similar to Indiana Jones? Is there a charachter named Washington Smith too?
It is intended... and not definitive...
Oklahoma Johnson, Colorado Smith...
It has to have a state as a nickname, as it will be an Indy parody.
Oh. Well, if its a parody I think you shouldn't have him as a student of Indiana Jones, he should be like an alternate Indiana or something...or not....
Sure... But I made the Barnett School room and I wanted to link it to Indy in some way, so...