Alleyway Background needs help - Too empty?

frankenberger · Wed 15/02/2006 02:05:09

Hi there, I'm a bit of a newbie around here but I'd appreciate some help with making this scene seem a little more interesting.

I've cropped it down a bit to post here because it was originally 800 x 600.

I've tried adding textures of sorts but it just looks too 'busy'. I think it needs to be dirtier, but I'm not sure how to do that and keep in the same style.

Can anyone help me with livening up this scene? I've spent at least a week on this background alone, and my plot is suffering as a result.Ã,Â

MarVelo · Wed 15/02/2006 02:46:46

everything is on an extreme angle like so "/" you may want to decrease the angle. If you used a vanishing point move it pretty much in the centre.

Kweepa · Wed 15/02/2006 02:51:05

Here are my suggestions:
* save as a png so that paintovers are easier
* some colour variation - slight differences in colour for the bricks and paving stones
* lighting - flat shade the sides of blocks, walls, doorframes, drainpipe as if there's a light present
* more broken plaster and exposed brick
* bits of plaster on the ground below the holes
* lines that are a dark version of the outlined object
* the obligatory dustbins (or trash cans if you prefer) and old newspapers
* better perspective - the top of the door should tilt the other way

Ahh, what the heck, here's a really bad paintover with some ideas

Daniel Thomas · Wed 15/02/2006 03:14:43

saw that me and SteveMcCrea had about the same ideas..
If you told what mood you wanted it could be adjusted with the colors (warm and cold etc)

Hope this can inspire you some:

frankenberger · Wed 15/02/2006 05:16:42

Thanks guys... Working on it now. I'll post a new edit when I'm done, if that's something I should do...?

Afflict · Wed 15/02/2006 10:26:04

Its the best in most cases IMO so that you learn to improve your skill.
And then the C&C starts all over again. To see where you can improve from there..

Welcome and enjoy!

Cluey · Wed 15/02/2006 22:15:54

Yeah, post, critic, touch up, post, critic, touch up etc.

The circle of life

frankenberger · Thu 16/02/2006 01:57:21

Okay. Finally finished a new edit of the background. It took me hours, but I think it looks a bit better.

I don't know if I like the perspective on the poster to the left. Maybe it's at the wrong height on the wall or something. Apart from that, everything looks pretty good to me.

Opinions?

Moox · Thu 16/02/2006 05:38:55

Marked improvement, looks good.

Kweepa · Thu 16/02/2006 07:30:01

Yes, it's getting there!

The perspective on the STOP THE TRADE poster is right. It's the perspective of the other posters that is throwing it off - mainly the POST NO BILLS poster at the bottom. Draw a line from the vanishing point through the top of the poster - it should be parallel to this line. (See the red lines in my paintover.)

The drainpipe could do with some lighting.

You need to decide whether to make the outlines coloured or black (particularly the bricks at the bottom left stand out).

You also need to decide on a style of cracked plaster. You have three different styles of exposed brick. Personally I'd go with the style on the right, with straighter edges.

The top of the doorframe is too thin, and missing the bottom face.

I still think it looks a bit empty. Perhaps some graffitti, or a fire escape ladder hanging down in silhouette, would fill it up.

Oh, and it's 640x530. 640x480 is more common.

Neutron · Thu 16/02/2006 15:56:38

it looks a bit too clean, i would add some diffused shadows in the corners and scuff up the walls and other flat surfaces a bit.

frankenberger · Thu 16/02/2006 23:54:00

Okay, here's the latest edit.

The reason that it's 640 x 530 is that it's been cropped down. It's supposed to be at 800 x 600 in the game, but I got rid of the superfluous green edges for purposes of making it small enough to deal with on the forum.

I fixed up the top of the doorframe, the perspective on the posters (looks somewhat better) and changed the bricks. I really like the fire escape ladder.

I thought about it, but when I tested the background with the character sprites I figured I should leave the flat colours as is because they fit more with the style of the other graphics. And although I've messed with the black outlines a little bit, I've found that the unevenness actually works pretty well in the game.

Thanks for the help, folks. I really appreciate it.

LilBlueSmurf · Fri 17/02/2006 05:24:04

Couple little things you might try.
Make a poster(s) noticably angled, seems kind of odd to have them all perfectly verticle.
The plaster edges on the far right hole seem much too smooth, more like it was purposly finished with part missing instead of falling away.
Similarly, maybe add in a few cracks around the broken plaster.
Dent up one or both trashcans a bit.
I don't know if it is ment to be a clean alley, but it looks that way. I know you are going for a nice clean style, but if you want it to be a typical grubby alley, you might play around with some little dirt piles (maybe like the green stuff on the trashcan) or some more scrapes of paper, and maybe a bottle or can two.
Oh, and the dirt beneath the broken cement/stone could probably use more brown, it looks oddly pastel right now.

Really like the style though, has a nice comic look to it.

Grapefruitologist · Fri 17/02/2006 07:12:56

Yep, it looks too clean-like the garbageman is obssessive compulsive or something, heh. (Although it would still work, it's a great background.)
I'm not the best person to give advice, so I'll give it sparingly.
To make it look dirty:
Put smushed gum on the cement, make the water greenish-blue, make the plants a little wilted, make it darker, put lots of muddy, dry, old, faint, dusty footprints on the ground, and holes in the garbage bags (where mice chewed through, of course!), and posters and pieces of paper that fell down and are all wrinkled and covered in mud. Just some ideas to make it look dirtier.
I drew an alley too-yours is way better, though. (I posted it in my last post.)
EDIT: Okay, I guess that wasn't as sparingly as I thought.

Afflict · Fri 17/02/2006 11:02:22

Quote from: Cluey on Wed 15/02/2006 22:15:54
Yeah, post, critic, touch up, post, critic, touch up etc.

The circle of life

ROFL

Thats quite funny!

Great job on the work frankenberger! Last thing thats bothering me is the wall by the trash cans is still 100% intact, give it some stains or something near the bottom its way to clean especially if the trashcans are there. Put some of that green ooze thats on the can on the wall.