Hey everyone, haven't posted in the critics lounge in years!
I'm working on combat sprites for my game Heroine's Quest. I've made about 3 attempts so far to animate the hero taking a swing at a monster with a two-handed battle axe. Each attempt has ended in failure. Sprites are not really my area, but I'm trying my best. So far, I've been using other games for references on animation. If the hero was swinging a sword, I don't think I'd have much trouble, but I can't seem to get a two-handed weapon to work.
So basically, I'm trying to have a swing to the right first. Sort of like a swing with an axe to a tree. Also, I need a slight step towards the monster while swinging. Hopefully someone can help. Even if I had some stick figures (like below) doing this, I could use that as a reference.
Cheers!
(http://www.corbydesigns.com/combatidle.gif)
(http://www.corbydesigns.com/helpa.png)
(http://www.corbydesigns.com/helpb.png)
A small note, just remembering myself using an axe to cut trees:
When you are idle, you can hold the axe like heroine is holding it on that sprite above, with large distance between hands to make its weight balanced. However, when you strike, you have to bring both hands together to create a single pivot, otherwise your strike will be terribly awkward and weak.
O well, forgive my lame drawings, but here's how I see this:
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/axe.png)
Possibly I should have made guy's hands be even closer to the lower handle end.
Hey that makes total sense to me! Thanks!
I misused my words, and think I meant to say a "left swing". But I do need one for the right too, so I'm half way there now.
Any chance you could whip up a swing from the opposite side too? :)
I am not sure what you mean by left/right swing, is it a "horizontal" strike?
Well, I draw this "schema" trying to show how man starts a strike by raising axe from the right side more detailed. If you need him/her to make a horizontal or diagonal strike (sorry, no idea how these things called) simply stop axe rising earlier, then swing.
Green parts are right, Blue are left.
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/axe2.png)
This may be rather rude; anyway, basically rising such heavy thing while holding a handle is better performed when you do so along the spiral, not just straight half-circle.
Also! If you want to strike from the side diagonally (not just straight from above) sometimes it is better to rise the axe from opposite side, - in this case you won't need to fight with your own inertion, but use it for you benefit.
In other words - rise axe from left along a spiral to strike from right side, and vice versa.
Normally you'd want to bring the axe up and swing in a chopping motion, but to simulate the effect you wanted (a horizontal rather than vertical swing) I made a quick and dirty edit.
(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr218/ProgZmax/axeswingcl.gif)
You'll notice that I changed the angle of the axe as it swings to more properly match the angle of her body. The easiest way to do this is to imagine a flat plane along the area where the characters attack and adjust the shapes for a somewhat isometric view. I didn't focus much on the axe so it has no details but it should help give you an idea of how to achieve a similar effect. Also, I removed a few frames I had included that showed her pull back more before the swing because I wanted to focus on the swing itself. One good way to improve this is to show more momentum by building up the swing slowly and then have the swing use only a few frames so it appears fast to the viewer. You'll also want to consider the movement of her body as she swings, naturally turning with the motion of the axe. Hopefully this helps!
ProgZMax, sorry, but on your animation her fighting style totally defeats the sense of having a long pole :)
What I want to say, nobody would fight with heavy battle axe like that.
Something to illustrate my last note in the previous post:
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/axe_strike_schema.png)
QuoteNormally you'd want to bring the axe up and swing in a chopping motion, but to simulate the effect you wanted (a horizontal rather than vertical swing) I made a quick and dirty edit.
He said he wanted a swing to the side like chopping a tree so I accommodated. Note that I also said a vertical chopping motion would be better. Please read.
Quote from: ProgZmax on Tue 15/12/2009 23:00:06
QuoteNormally you'd want to bring the axe up and swing in a chopping motion, but to simulate the effect you wanted (a horizontal rather than vertical swing) I made a quick and dirty edit.
He said he wanted a swing to the side like chopping a tree so I accommodated. Note that I also said a vertical chopping motion would be better. Please read.
Well, I understood that you wanted to show how his own vision of strike would look like, however, even chopping a tree from a side would involve slightly different technique.
I mean, she has to at least grasp the axe closer to the end of the axe handle, that's all.
Quote from: ProgZmax on Tue 15/12/2009 23:00:06
QuoteNormally you'd want to bring the axe up and swing in a chopping motion, but to simulate the effect you wanted (a horizontal rather than vertical swing) I made a quick and dirty edit.
He said he wanted a swing to the side like chopping a tree so I accommodated. Note that I also said a vertical chopping motion would be better. Please read.
I agree with CW, in your animation the character keeps their right hand near to the head of the axe and rotates the axe around its centre point which would be a terrible way to swing an axe. Also the shaft of the axe would pass straight through her body the way you have it.. its too long to move like that.
And also doesn't the way she holds it imply a right-handed swing?
The first thing I pictured was her lifting the head of the axe towards us, and then swinging in a diagonal-forward motion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcyZf94iIgI
There are plenty of youtube videos for reference.
Crimson Wizard: Yup, that's perfect. That animation with her raising the axe is where I got stumped.
ProgzMax: That swing is just want I wanted for the end of her attack, after she's raised it to get some momentum.
I'll just combine the two and make sure she's holding the pole nearer to the tip and at the one pivot.
So thanks guys, I'll post my result soon! I should've came here months ago!
How's this looking?
(http://www.corbydesigns.com/axe2.gif)
Beautiful, Corby, it actually looks like the proper way to swing an axe
I found practicing with a broom helps :)
Have you tried adding a motion blur to the final frame? This is a common technique used for animating weapons to make the path of motion more obvious and the frame count look higher.
That sounds like a interesting idea! Would I still have to keep the edges non anti-aliased? I've wondered how AGS handles anti-aliased sprites?
You can't anti-alias a normal sprite, as it will show up with a transparency "halo" when imported to the ags.
Regarding the animation; I think one way to improve it even more would be to stretch her (his?) right arm in the final frame, as it appear to be bent now. Her right elbow wouldn't be visible if the arm was fully extended, for instance.
Also, wouldn't it be more natural to advance with your left foot when you swing from the right? I tried some swings and I feel much better taking a big stride with my left foot than with my right.
Quote from: Andail on Wed 16/12/2009 08:35:47
You can't anti-alias a normal sprite, as it will show up with a transparency "halo" when imported to the ags.
you can if its a 32-bit game since it has an 8 bit alpha channel
It wouldn't match the current pixel art style though.
Quote from: Corby on Wed 16/12/2009 07:11:04
I found practicing with a broom helps :)
It's all good until someone breaks a window...
Although you probably couldn't get away with a large blur effect, you could use a tracer style blur instead, which wouldn't look quite so out of place.
Quote from: Corby on Wed 16/12/2009 07:11:04
I found practicing with a broom helps :)
Haha, that's what my brother often does before drawing the animation frames of the knights in our game. Well, instead of a broom he uses a cardboard roll. :)
The animation is good, though I would add an additional frame before the last one - or some motion blur like someone suggested.
Elbow Tuck.
So now the question is: how does one block an attack with a large battle axe? Using the pole or the blade part of the axe?
(http://www.corbydesigns.com/axe4.gif)
I think you can block it using the pole, grabing the end of the pole with the left hand, and the right hand below the blade, in a position like this /, and when she receives the blow, back off a little bit
Yeah, with a big axe like that you probably can't parry as with a sword; you either just block the blow with the shaft and hope it doesn't break, or try to duck...
Just having her hold it in front of her defensively will work. It doesn't need to be more than one frame for the most part. For the axe swing you might put one frame in the middle of the swing so it doesn't look so much like the axe is warping from one side to the other. Aside from that it's a convincing animation!
There's also some good battle axe animation here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHWv9L_Rdew) which could be useful for further inspiration, especially if you have the program that can download streaming video. As for blocking, I think holding the axe diagonally across the body and blocking with the handle should be sufficient.
Ya, I think I'll go with that. Should be only a few frames too!
Thanks Scarab for that video. Some neat moves in there, and some possible "bonus" attacks.
Just one small comment: technically, her upper body should bend a little towards axe blade as she raises and swings it, because it's heavy and intertion will pull her upper torso towards it, like, I dunno, joystick is pulled by hand. If you think it will be too much headache to animate like that, then you may ignore this, because animation is good enough already; it's just that now she looks terribly strong to be able to strike like that :)
PS. Same goes to the guy in the video, he's just inhumanly strong to just swing the axe like that ;)
(which is possibly OK for computer game)
Actually I'm curious here. On the last Axe frame where it's hovering on the left side, is that supposed to be an attack that is inside the creature? Or will it be hovering in the air like that cause it's already made it's cut and passed to the left side?
If it's only hovering in the air as the after attack, I suggest putting her left arm closer to the head of the axe to stop the momentum. Otherwise the axe would never stop it's course (with human strength anyway) and she'd be forced to release the axe, like how a golfer accidentally releases his club.