Another background

[TheRoger]

Well I finished this background:



This is first time I drew background without outlines. What do you think?

[barefoot]

Looks quite good..

The grey ground i think should have a texture of ground of some kind and hopefully that waterfall will be animated... but it needs to go somewhere, maybe a pool, and not just hit the ground as in your image.. perhaps all the grey could be a lake/river?

Good for first background..  

barefoot

[Anian]

You're gonna have a slightly hard time matching the style of character to fit that background. I hope that waterfall is on a different layer, cause you'll probably have to remove it if you want to make an animation of it or if there's like a puzzle solution where you shut down the waterfall or something.

As on the background itself, I think it kind of lacks a certain mood. It might be a mix between sort of uninteresting feel of the whole scene (try sketching yourself maybe a few different camera views of this scene, see if there might be a more interesting look) and that lot of it seems empty and kind of lacking details. Is there going to be something else here except an entry to a cave? Also on one side of the stream there's lots of grass but the other is only rocks and mud.
And the colors of the grass and what seems to be water really get blurred together on the right side.

[Lad]

 Agreeing with anian. I would also suggest maybe making the cave entrance visible on the waterfall(make the shape of the cave visible with adding darker tones to that place on the waterfall) I hope you understand what I mean.  A good example is in game Blackthorne. Couldn't find a good image  with google.  Here's the link to the game if you have the time. http://www.abandonia.com/en/games/56/Blackthorne.html

[TheRoger]

Well I refused the idea for waterfall, because I tried to animate it for few hours, but nothing good came out.

About matching...Yeah, I don't think that characters will match backgrounds. I tried to it MI:3 style, but it came a bit...not MI:3 style.

Don't know what to add more, added some rocks in grass and some grass in mountain. Here how it looks now:

[Lad]

 I think adding some shapes and sharper edges to the cliff would make it better. You should see a bit more into the cave, the darkening should be smoother transition. Also try to make the grass go one direction, right now it looks a bit messy.

Oh I do hope you get what I mean! 

[2ma2]

When painting, make sure to work with both hard and soft edges. The rock-face does not convey a ragged surface. You could try working with putting cubes all over the place, and then cubes into the cubes, and then overlapping cubes etc etc. Make light and shadow map out irregular blocks.

[TheRoger]

Okay, added some textures, made grass to be in one direction and cave is a smaller copy of other background. Here is how it looks:

[barefoot]

I'm no expert but I think it looks a lot better then first attempt  now you have some more textures


barefoot

[Snarky]

Ugh, too Photoshop-filtery! It's nice that there is a bit of texture to the environment, but the uniformity and flatness of it just ruins the sense of depth and perspective.

I do like what you've done with the rocks, which now seem more like rounded, solid objects than cardboard cutouts. The one on the right could use a bit more work along the same lines, but nice progress. And the plank bridge is also very nice.

If we go back to the previous version for most other aspects, I would point to the cliff face as being most in need of work. First, stay away from the soft brush for shadows there, it gives it a gentle, smooth, wavy appearance - exactly the opposite of what you want. Second, know your light source. According to the foreground rocks, the sun is to the right, so shadows should fall on surfaces that don't face that way. Currently the deepest shadow is on the bit that should get the most direct sunlight. Third, like 2ma2 shows, figure out what the shape of that cliff face is in more detail. It might be useful to split it into a few different planes and add some clear outcroppings, then sketch how the cracks would go. Also, the whole cliff wouldn't face us head-on; if we see it at an angle it adds depth and makes it look more realistic (as in the samples 2ma2posted, again).

For the grass, I think your initial technique was fine, but again you should be more deliberate in how you place light and dark areas depending on the light. You can get the sense of grass blades just by using your brush in a consistent direction.

[Phemar]

Looking better, though I'd like to add that since you've drawn in the depth for the cave, it puts the plank bridge slighly out of perspective

[TheRoger]

Umm... it should look more like this?

[Snarky]

It's a good effort, and I think you're heading in the right direction. I would not make the cliff consist of square blocks, though. It looks too regular, more like it's been built than a natural formation. Yes, there are square blocks of stone in nature, but getting that across is tricky.

In any case, now that there is some structure to the cliff, you should think more about the shading. For example, the face that is above the bridge appears to be facing away from the sun, so it should be more in shadow than the others. That kind of thing. (This also applies to the cave. The side that faces away from the sun would be dark, the wall that faces the sun would get some light.)

Oh, and I think you should go darker for the cracks and stuff. The sun doesn't reach in between there, so it would be as dark as the cave.

And it's a minor issue, but I think the razor-sharp horizon clashes with the hand-painted style of the rest. Try drawing over it in freehand. (I'm not sure what you're doing with the strange water ripples and reflection of something there's so sign of in the picture, either. That has to change, but you can leave it for later.)

Overall this is not bad at all. As a game background I think the exits apart from the cave are unclear, but it depends on how it's used in the game.

Looking better, though I'd like to add that since you've drawn in the depth for the cave, it puts the plank bridge slighly out of perspective

Only if you assume that it's all parallel, which there's no reason it has to be.

[Ilyich]

It's better, but it's still very flat and solid, it looks more like a man-made structure, rather than a natural one. What it needs is shape, not texture.
It's quite hard to imagine natural shapes in 3d, because they are incredibly complex and irregular, but it's easier to draw them - you should just block out some random shapes, and then start thinking about how the light falls on them.

Also, take a look at some references (like the ones 2ma2 has already posted) - it's important to draw the actual things and not their abstract symbolic equivalents.

Here's a quick edit to suggest one of the ways to go about improving this bg:


And here's a better one, from Sierra's "Quest for Glory"


Hope this helps a bit, good luck!

[TheRoger]

Wow...Ilyich himself showed up.

It is said: when you think that you are good at something, there is an Asian kid who does it better than you. Well, I don't even need an Asian kid 

Tried to do something (After collecting all crumbles of motivation that left):

[Snarky]

Right, you're working with more complex 3D forms and applying light and shadow to them in a fairly consistent manner. Great!

However, the shape and structure you've given the cliff is very strange. It's essentially a flat wall with a few geometric shapes stuck on or in front, and the shapes all tend to line up, follow the same orientation or share the same couple of shapes. What you probably should be trying for is a a surface that is consistently irregular.

You know those polygon meshes you see on 3D objects that haven't been fully rendered? (Like this)  Think of your cliff as something like that, a curving, non-flat surface made up of flat pieces (some of which we're seeing from an angle). You need to get away from the flat wall. Then once your wall has a shape to it, you add a few slightly more prominent, irregular shapes sticking out or in, but still being part of the same flow of form.

Yeah, it's tough, and I couldn't do as good a job of it as Ilyich, but I think you can still improve it quite a bit.

Incidentally, I'm not a huge fan of that QFG background. It demonstrates the general principle, but I think it's a bit overdone, with a lot of facets to the rock. I think Ilyich's background has a more reasonable degree of complexity without completely drowning out the rest of the screen in detail.

[TheRoger]

Hmm...I had to draw surface first, then shapes. Very smart from me. It'll be difficult to do now.

[2ma2]

Tried to do something (After collecting all crumbles of motivation that left):

Keep on fighting We only criticise you because your work show great potential. You have a solid instinct that needs to be complemented with mental "tools", and very few acquire these on their own. You could pick up some literature on the subject, or better yet, apply to a course. Having a teacher to discuss with face-to-face is superior to everything else.

[cat]

I don't have any artistic advice for you but a bit of encouragement: Compare your first and your last picture, there is a huge progress, so don't give up!

[TheRoger]

Don't want redraw everything. Added a small path, so now player will know where he can go, made grass darker. I think it'll be last result: