Another composition for improvement

[frenchllama]

Hi, I've made a quick sketch of a living room composition that I'd like some compositional feedback on.

The flat is run-down and dirty (not conveyed particularly well yet) and inhabited by an unsuccessful cat-burglar, hence his outstanding rent payments and the flat's condition. The room will only be seen at night, and the three light sources are a window in the kitchen off to the left (emitting very slight moonlight/street light), the tv, and the primary source which is the ceiling light in the top-centre at the back of the living room. A secondary character will be sitting on the couch watching TV. The door at the back leads to the bedroom, and the one on the right is the front door which leads to the apartment block's communal corridor.

I will be creating two versions of this room, as at one point the power gets disconnected and then the only light will be the one from the window.

I find interior locations, particularly normal rooms, harder to create interesting compositions with, and I'm aware that it might be a bit flat because it's only a one-point perspective. Also the cropping of the TV is awkward - not sure if it should be tighter or more zoomed out.
Any feedback/criticism would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Actually I like how you've laid it out.  The only suggestion I have is that rather than have an off-screen light source, why not get rid of (or move) the book shelf to the far wall and place a semi-large window there that we can see beyond?  It would also add a layer depth to the scene if the player could actually be seen walking along a hall from the window to his door.  The door would essentially be opening into one of those open halls some apartment complexes have with a view of the city beyond.

[frenchllama]

Thanks, I really like that idea - definitely adds depth to the scene, as you said. I've made a quick rework of that wall, however I'm not really sure what the exterior should look like as I'm unfamiliar with the exterior hallway apartments you referred to and I can't find a good visual reference.
As such, I tried to make it up, but it kind of looks more like a hotel balcony right now...

Any suggestions or paintovers are welcomed.

[Atelier]

I have some suggestions for making it more unkempt. The flat is pretty grotty how it is, but perhaps the carpet/lino can have some ugly holes in, and show the floor boards underneath? The ceiling light looks modern-ish, but could be a plain bulb hanging down from a wire. Scattering some rubbish around the place (particularly on the table) would be nice too, and the sofa could have some springs bursting through.

I wish I could draw.

[Ryan Timothy B]

This looks great.  I love seeing your work in progress.

The window definitely makes the place look less cheap and rundown.  But I really like it.  One thing you could do is have some cardboard taped to one of the window because the glass is broken.  Something like that, or just show spider cracks in one or two of the windows.  Maybe some bars on the windows, but I fear that would destroy the feeling of depth the window gives.

And when it's all said and done, an animated water droplet coming from the sink tap at random intervals would be marvelous.  With a little water droplet splash sound effect. 

I know this is about the artwork and not really the 'mood' of the overall game.  But I imagine the power gets cutoff because he hasn't been paying the bill?  When the power gets cutoff you should have a muffled sound of a tv playing in the distant apartment to show the player that everyone else has power but you.  It would give the scene more life and impact.  And it would be even better if the muffled sounds were of laughter and talking as if the neighbors are watching a sitcom with a laugh track.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Here's a quick image of a generic apartment complex for reference:




You can see how the second floor walkway gives renters a nice view beyond their living room windows at the urban decay .

[Calin Leafshade]

Things like this make me embarrassed.

The ease in which you identify perspective and can pluck images out of thin air and draw them just astounds me.

It looks fantastic, i love the style.

[Ryan Timothy B]

Something I forgot to post when I commented earlier.
I'm not sure if this is just because it's a work in progress, or you actually intend on leaving this way, but I feel it needs better cropping.


Excuse the poor quality of my quick move of the sink, haven't installed Photoshop yet and used MSPaint.

I know you wanted this to be a scrolling background, but unless the fridge is going to be accessed, or you actually plan on panning the screen towards that side of the kitchen, there really isn't any point.  Just because people shit, doesn't mean they show the toilet in every game or movie. lol

I moved the sink so it wouldn't be left out; it also makes the kitchen look more cramped and awkward (which i believe better suits the atmosphere you were trying to convey).  Especially with that structural support pole being situated on the counter top itself; it really pushes the apartment look onto this piece.

I prefer this crop of the tv side much better.  Makes the seen more boxed in, giving it that tightness feeling (in my opinion).

[Chicky]

I like it non-squished, feels more cinematic.

[Calin Leafshade]

I like it non-squished, feels more cinematic.

agreed, people often forget the role of a widescreen effect in games.

[Chicky]

I agree, weird seeing as the Scumm interface pretty much forces it.

[frenchllama]

Thanks everyone for all the feedback. I've sketched in some changes (excuse the flat colour base and lack of highlights or shadows, it's very WIP. Oh and I forgot to fix up the city, so it looks horrible)

I've compromised on the cropping, because I do like Ryan Timothy's workover for the right-hand-side of the image, but the kitchen will be useable in the game - the fridge can be opened etc. As a side note, I will also be drawing the bathroom, and yes, the toilet too, as it all pertains to the story and the puzzles  I'm a fan of games where the environment is very exploration friendly (if there's a door to the bathroom, why shouldn't you be able to enter it? etc) Just personal preference.

Also I'm definitely going to keep those ideas for ambient sound and visuals in mind when start putting all my backgrounds into ags. You have a mind for subtle details and atmosphere.   

I've tried to mess up the room a bit more with junk etc, and hopefully the exterior corridor is looking a little more like the real thing (a thought occurs that I should have included an overhang-support pillar in place of one of the rails, and/or a drainpipe).

I'll add more junk, but as objects rather than background, as I want the player to be able to pick up a lot of random stuff - make you think about what you actually might need.

[S]

It's a very nice and atmospheric room, but there's some decidedly odd stuff going on in there!
Let me elaborate:

1. The cupboard door that hangs off its hinges looks as if it would obscure the passage into the kitchen, and make it impossible to open the refrigerator. Why not take it off of the cupboard and lean it up against the side of it?

2. The right-hand side door doesn't line up with the window, prespectively speaking. I know it's a shabby apartment, but even if the wall sags it doesn't seem right, I think.

3. The exposed floor boards don't look like exposed floor boards, but that might improve with some colouring. I only realised they were floor boards thanks to a comment further up in the thread.

4. The relative sizes of many objects seem wrong. The TV is too big (this does not seem like the type of apartment where you'll find a big TV), and the stove is too small. I think the problem might be that the foreground elements (i.e. the sink, the squashed beer can and the TV) are too big, but I also think you need to make the bit of bench with the cooking plates on it wider.

Unlike Ryan T, I think you need to make the image even wider, adding a bit of kitchen to the left. It will still look more than cramped enough.

I love the missing pillow on the couch, but i am not crazy about the idea of being able to pick up all kinds of junk. That, however, is not an art question, so I'll remain mum on that from now on.

[Ryan Timothy B]

I only suggested to crop off the kitchen because I didn't think the character would be able to walk over there.  It's probably mostly due to the narrow looking opening to the kitchen.

Also opening the fridge door towards the viewer will make things easier to animate, but much less interesting for the player if they can't see what is in the fridge.  Unless you plan on having an overlayed image over top the background image (GUI style) that allows you to interact with the items (or even switching to another room for the inside of the fridge, but that's usually not as fun).

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to seeing how you color, shade, and lighten this background.  Keep us posted.

[Layabout]

Personally I feel this background has no defined 'stage'.

If you look at most other adventure game screens, there will be a limited silhouetted foreground, a 'stage' for the character to interact/walk/do his thing, and a background.

It's far too busy for my tastes and would be limited in walkable/interaction areas.

I also feel a fundamental 'feature' of adventure game screens is to have the character occupy about 1/3 of the vertical screen real estate. Your character would have to be over half of the VSRE to fit in with the scale of the scene.

Also, with staging, it's key to have clearly defined 'focus points' to illustrate what is important and unimportant in the scene. Because the scene is so busy, my eyes are in a whirlwind around the image looking for something to focus on. Having a character will help a bit, but having the player focus solely on the player characeter is a bad design choice IMO.

Artistically, the image is appealing in it's style. Great perspective work. I'd like to see the linework cleaned up a little though.

[frenchllama]

Firstly, I apologise for posting this really messy work - I just quickly changed the layout of certain aspects in the room by dragging them around, so it looks pretty bad - the main thing is I'd like to nail this composition down so ignore the other stuff going on.



S: you're right - there was a lot of weird stuff going on I didn't notice. I think I've managed to fix the size irregularity - the TV is now much smaller, and I plan to make the stove larger as well. I'll give things like the floorboards more attention once the composition is finalised. As for the cupboard door, the new kitchen layout should help with its practicality, but I kind of like it hanging, rather than it having no doors attached. I hope that doesn't come off as me being one of those irritating people who ignores constructive criticism and defends everything they do - I do try to take everything on board and I appreciate the feedback.

Ryan Timothy: Intriguing idea for the fridgue GUI. I was planning on making it a separate room, or the uninteresting option of having the door open so the player can't see in  I like this third option now.

Layabout: I think, whether or not I did it consciously when I drew this, one thing I don't always like about adventure games is the overwhelming sense of a stage. I find this particularly in indoor environments, where the rooms are just enourmous for no particular reason (the latest broken sword game was a good example - particularly in places like bathrooms) other than to let the character wander all around them easily. I suppose ultimately it's a balance, but I'd like to try give my indoor environments a sense of actually being inside a realistic room, and this one in particular is designed to be small and cramped.
Having said that, I have tried to rearrange the room slightly to make it more user-friendly. I've shifted the bench back, more into the foreground, and removed the stove section so there will be a larger unrestricted walking area. Also yes, the linework is quite distasteful - don't worry, I am going to go over it - it's just a rough sketch for now.

I'm wondering whether or not to remove the support pillar on the counter, so as to lessen the clutter of the room - possibly making its focal points a little less confusing?

What's the verdict on this latest layout? Cheers.

[Anian]

Now that I look at the older versions, you'd have some trouble with the perspective and changing of the character's sprite size, this layout will make it less visible and less problematic.

Maybe the pillar should go (although I like it as part of the room design). But then a carpet or similar should be on the floor, just so it balances out everything else in the scene (so it doesn't seem empty, the floor boards coming through might not be enough in the middle). If not a carpet then one more of those empty cans or an empty bottle or something.

Andm aybe, just maybe, that table should be a bit smaller in surface size. Though this is nothing major.

[S]

I think this looks great now, although I still think the cupboard door will present a practical problem when creating walking zones. I agree with the sentiment that not having a 'stage' is a good idea. Makes things more realistic and might increase immersion. Oh, and keep the pillar!

[Ryan Timothy B]

[..]I still think the cupboard door will present a practical problem[..]

I actually believe he drew it for it to have two sets of doors with the right one missing (or I'm just completely wrong and it does swing out that far).  But I do agree that it looks confusing.

Perhaps just keeping that one door completely attached properly on the left, clearly showing the right one is missing.  Perhaps some broken door frame where the hinges were once held. 

Also, for some reason I keep picturing that you should have a mouse trap somewhere in the house, perhaps in the cupboard, maybe even with a dead mouse in it (depending on the type of game you're making lol).  Yes, it's weird.

I like the pillar, but I also find it feeling like it's a room divider.  If you decide to keep this pillar, I suggest while painting you keep the pillar invisible on a different 'foreground' layer.  That way your colors, textures, lighting and such on the background, look the same from left and right of the pole (this is what I'd do anyway).

If you do decide to remove the pillar, you'll have an empty floor in it's place.  I feel you'd need something scattered on the floor.  Perhaps a broken wooden chair, or some boxes or something.

Also the handles on the fridge look very tiny.  They look like clothes hanger handles, and a hand couldn't fit inside of them at all.  (more or less, something that sticks out this far would be realistic: http://www.newportkitchens.org.uk/USERIMAGES/american%20fridge%20freezer.jpg)

[acolite246]

The kitchen column looks more aligned with the half way mark than the traditional rule of thirds.

Maybe you should shift the counter a little, moving the column over?