Colored version : http://www.agsforums.com/yabb/index.php?topic=15031.msg185878#msg185878
B&W version : http://www.agsforums.com/yabb/index.php?topic=15031.msg185235#msg185235
I completely redrew the first background of our game, because I wasn't satisfied with the previous version (http://www.digitalmindstudio.ch/images/jeux/projet1/dms_argaargui01.jpg), and I'm happy with what I've been able to achieve.
It's supposed to be a life-insurance company office.
(http://www.digitalmindstudio.ch/images/jeux/projet1/dms_bureau_crayon01.jpg)
I would like to color it and get ride of outlines while the background stays consistant...
but my problem is that I really don't know how to start, and which technic to use.
I've tried with selecting area with the magic tool, but I don't like the result. I've tried making two layers, one for colors and some others for highlight & shadows... but the result isn't as good as I would like, it takes me a lot of time, and usually it makes my background blury.
I haven't found any appropriate tutorial on the internet for the moment, but I certainly will keep searching.
So I really would appreciate if someone could just give me a tip or some tutorial link
oh btw C&C pleaseÃ, :)
Hi Dorcan,
You can create a second layer, like you did tryalready, with the multiply blending setting on while you work on it. When you finished the coloring you can try to play with the contrast of the lines layer to leave a tiny bit of outlines so the objects stay somewhat defined, yet it won't have the outlined look. So it would be the finishign touch which would get you the desired effect(getting rid of the outlines -mostly- yet not resulting in a blurry background)
So basically you should go on and color it, with details and all and finish it off by making the lines way less defined behind the color.. subtle :)
Just a suggestion..
This would be aÃ, relevant tutorial:
http://www.twin-design.com/agsezine/issue5_garagegothic.cfm
WOW! :o :o :o (http://gamer.vip.hr/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_ave.gif)
You have a potentially brilliant bavckground there!
I really like this background. Any hidden secrets other than the Manny Calavera doll? (been too long since I played the game so the name may not be exact)
One helpful tutorial for a certain colouring style:
http://www.twin-design.com/agsezine/issue5_garagegothic.cfm (damn, Ryz beat me to it)
Another:
http://www.nethersphere.com/howto_colorsketch.html
Thank you everybody !
Ryz : You're right, making the lines subtle could be the solution !
Echarin : Thanks ! Hehe I thought it was interesting having Manny somewhere in an life-insurance company office ;) I think I will add some other secrets in the next backgrounds.
The tutorial from GarageGothic is a really good one, but I don't want to keep the pencil layer, and I didn't feel like it was appropriate for what I want to achieve.
This thread caught my eye : http://www.agsforums.com/yabb/index.php?topic=14810.20
Basicaly, he (PixelCat) start drawing in black & white, and then add colors... I usually do it the other way, adding shadows after colors, but I found this idea quite interesting actually.
Also, lot of tutorials advise to draw in hi-res, and then reduce the image size, which is a good idea too.
So I started painting basic shapes and light area in b&w (the image size is 3485 x 2465)
I'm now working on details, but it's really time consuming, drawing everything with the paint tool (I don't want to use the burn tool too often...)
Took me almost all the afternoon :-\Ã, but what I've done so far is satisfying. I hope to finish tomorrow:
(http://www.digitalmindstudio.ch/images/screenshots/bureau_gris01.jpg)
wow
beautiful lighting
I think Zor said it best: (http://gamer.vip.hr/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_ave.gif)
As for critique, I think the best part is the desk, the part in the very center of the image. It is the most defined and contrasted, and I think that's what you need.
Jesus, Mother trucking across the globe. You need to scrap that character too. My God that is beautiful. Thats better then most perfessional games. You REALLY ought to sell this game.
Quote from: Evil on Fri 02/07/2004 04:47:54
Thats better then most perfessional games. You REALLY ought to sell this game.
Sell it to people outside of the forum of course. I think we deserve top get it free. ;D
i reallly like the shaded version it looks very good, things are almost "feelable" (u think that u can almost touch them ;) thumbs up!
im looking forward to c it done in shading. and then in colours ofc. but i think that ur character(from piccie from link) just wont fit in that kind of 3D realistic background :\
just my two cents
I dont think you should use colours. I believe it should be b/w
I think one problem with this background is that whatever character you put on it it won't look right because it won't be casting a harsh shadow like everything else. But it does look very nice, as you might have gathered by now.
Why don't you just use the same coloring technique as in the old background? The composition has improved immensely with the new version (especially the foreground objects did a lot for it), but I don't really think there's anything wrong with the old coloring style - except the very yellow light streaks coming through the blinds (I also wonder how the light streaks through the blinds manage to actually fall in the shadow of the file cabinet - isn't this the same lightsource?)
This game looks absolutely awesome!
BTW: You pencil drawing is so clean that you could easily include it to provide outlines, at a very low transparency setting (20 or 30%) It wouldn't look anywhere near as sketchy as the background in my tutorial.
OSC : thanks
Hollister Man : Right. It took me a long time, but finally I've succeed in entirely refining my background.
Evil : Wow thanks ! ... Hey don't give me bad ideas ! I'm likely to be tried :P
What do you exactly mean by "You need to scrap that character too" ? I don't understand the "scrap" wordÃ, :-X
Preparación De Ensalada : Lol
Unfortunately, I don't think I will keep this background in B&W becauseÃ, it doesn't match the game style.
TheSaint & Scotch : Thanks !
I'm not sure the fact the character isn't shaded will really be a problem...
If you look at this picture... (http://www.digitalmindstudio.ch/images/screenshots/bureau_test01.jpg)
GarageGothic : Thank you.
Well, the technic I used in the old background was very frustrating and boring... And the result wasn't good. Now, I enjoy much more the coloring process :)
I gived the drawing layer a low transparency level : 20%, as you advised. Looks good :)
Pfiuu... At last I have finished the b&w coloring. Happy. Now, I must add colors and posters :
(http://www.digitalmindstudio.ch/images/screenshots/bureau_gris02.jpg)
Meh. Not bad. ;D
Wow - thats amazing, I pooped my pantz.
But it's only in black and white - feh! :P
Dorcan - I marvel at your talent!
Amazing!
The ONLY tiny thing I would say is that the monitor looks a little less defined than the rest of the scene.Ã, But I'm assuming that with the light source directly over it, that it's supposed to look that way.
Aside from that I'm awestruck!
Keep 'em coming!
Wow. You've gotta love intensly detailed backgrounds paired with cartoony characters. Great stuff!
WOW, Holy crap!
No seriously, thats worthy of a professional game, even the "previous version" wipes the floor with anything I could do, Keep at it.
Great background. How are you colouring it? Will you be selecting say the bookcase with the lasso tool then adjusting the Hue/Saturation to get the exact colour you want, or maybe using a Multply layer then painting the colour? Doing the BG in B&W is a pretty good way of working when i think about it, way easier with just as good results...
Actually, I was kind of upset how this turned out. Dont get me wrong, it looks amazing, like a photograph. I was hoping it was going to be darker, with long cast shadows and such. Maybe some color will change my mind.
By 'scraping' the character, I ment make a new one. The character went well with the old style but the new background is too realistic. I think a more realistic character would suit better.
Congratulations Dorcan, it looks gorgeous!!!
How are you getting it colored now??
Hm, didn't I initially suggest the blending(transparency setting)?
anyway, it looks awesome..
How long did it actually take you?
I must join the legion of people singing your praises - that's fantastic! But I'm not really desperate to see it in colour. It reminds my of film noir, I'd love to see a B/W detective game in that style.
Quote from: Ali on Mon 05/07/2004 11:06:47
But I'm not really desperate to see it in colour. It reminds my of film noir, I'd love to see a B/W detective game in that style.
Quite true, we really need a noir detective game. And proper noir not just a game in b/w.
More noirish feel to it, although that may not be what you re after at all:
(http://w1.872.telia.com/~u87210460/AGS/bureau_gris02_mod1.gif)
Just upped the black level and made the ceiling a bit darker.
Very nicely rendered btw.
Im amazed..Ã, the details and the shading is flawless! Good composition too.
I also understand Evil's feelings. Looking at the second picture and imagine a dark (poker and smoke) room gives a more impressive artwork than number 3.
loominous darker version isn't really right. Too bright floor and too much contrast, the chair is also too dark. I guess the smoke-feeling could be reached by focus and unfocus things. But Im not sure really. It's beyond my knowledge...
Good luck mr Dorcan, you who bring light to us amateur artists!
Actually, I love Loom's edit. Thats exactly what I was thinking. Lets see some color! :D
Dorcan, I just love how the Manny Calavera doll turned out...
Well I think its about time someone said it this background doesnt suck. Some people might not be able to look past the obvious flaws but dont be put down by everyone elses negativity, this background is not that bad. As everyone says keep practicing and you will someday get better. Don’t give up!
(Seriously though I think that that second one you did with the faded smoky look would look great in some kind of dream sequence.)
Wow, lot of repliesÃ, :o
SteveMcCrea : hehe thanks
Mr_Frisby : lol yeah, now it's in full color :D
Darth Mandarb : He, glad you like it :)
You're right about the monitor, I think it's better defined now.
Surge : In fact I've never done before a background with this amount of details, because I used to thought I could never finish one... But I realise now that I actually enjoyed a lot taking time for each detail. In fact, much more than when I just wanted to finish as quickly as possible...
Clueless3 : Thank you
TheDude : Yup, coloring in B&W first was quite usefull, because for exemple, it's easier to adjust the contrast & luminosity and to keep the balance between elements.
Evil : I understand how you're feeling, but my game will be a fantasy game, and I want it coloured. But, I also like contrasted and dark backgrounds, so I will try to get some inspiration from Tim Burton's movies. I said "try".
About the character : I imported the background in the game, and I think the character blend into the background pretty well : Screenshot (http://www.digitalmindstudio.ch/images/screenshots/bureau_test02.jpg)
Ryz : Absolutely, you advised me on making the lines subtle, and I thank you for that. I simply changed the oppacity to 20%, like GarageGothic said. So, thank to you both :)
It took me... eerm I should have timed that...
Let's see : It took me about 3 hours to sketch and draw on paper. Making it B&W took me 10-12 hours, and 10 hours to color it...
So, I would say about 24 hours distributed on 6 days (I had to work for my exam too)
Ali : Hey thank you ! Well, a B&W detective game would be cool, but... I prefere a fantasy colored game ;)
loominous : Thanks.
Yup, adjusting the level gives the background a stronger effect, but as I said before, that's not what I'm looking afterÃ, :-\
Nhazgul : Wow, thank you, but I don't deserve these praiseÃ, :)
About the shading, I tried to make them as right as possible, using a technic I saw a long time ago in a book.
Here you can see what it looks like (click on the picture to see it bigger):
(http://www.digitalmindstudio.ch/images/screenshots/bureau-ombres.jpg) (http://www.digitalmindstudio.ch/images/screenshots/bureau-ombres.jpg)
Mätzyboy : Hehe me too :P
Morgan : mmh I haven't seen anybody saying the background sucks...
Ok thank you everybody. Just some informations about the coloring :
As in photos, colored pictures are much less contrasted than B&W pictures. So I first had to change the luminosity & contrast balance.
I set the b&w layer blending mode on "Hard Light", and filled the color layer (which is under the b&w one) with the "neutral" gray (127 127 127).
Then, all I had to do is select a color with a value near the "neutral" gray one, and painted over the color layer... yeah
I would have said it better in french :P
(http://www.digitalmindstudio.ch/images/screenshots/bureau-couleurs02.jpg)
DM officially quits trying to be an artist
Dorcan, I thought the original was good. This is great!
I particualarly like the little red lights on the power strips. GREAT attention to detail.
I'm guessing you're still going to add some posters or something to the back wall? It looks as if it's started ...
The printer looks fantastic! Almost real. That's great.
The mouse looks like it should (maybe) be casting a bit more of a shadow? Just to my eyes maybe?
Anyway ... I'm being nit picky ... this rocks!
Great job!
:o
ok...
People to kill to become worlds greatest artist.
New entry...D..O...R..C..A..N...there. Now sign in blood.
On a serious note tho... The technique you describe for lighting is really helpful! Thanks!
Can I be your friend? :-*
:o :o :o
*Worship*
This is so beautiful.
BTW, is that a safe in the far lower part of the shelf? If so I think it should have one of those code turn wheels on it... But seriously, why bother? I could just sit and look at the image the way it is for hours...
holy shmoly!
This is one of the most impressing pieces I've seen during all my years on this forum.
It's perfect, simply put.
Quote from: mätzyboy on Tue 06/07/2004 17:43:55
:o :o :o
*Worship*
This is so beautiful.
BTW, is that a safe in the far lower part of the shelf? If so I think it should have one of those code turn wheels on it... But seriously, why bother? I could just sit and look at the image the way it is for hours...
EDIT:
I just noticed that some of the shadows are almost white instad of being darker the way shadows are... Look between the hind legs of the chair and I think you'll see...
EDIT again: Sorry for the double post, i pressed "reply with quote" instead of "Modify", by mistake...
Were you an artist for the Iron Giant film?
You keep surprising me! This is actually better than my imaginated picture! ;)
I hope you find out a way to massproduce these to a whole game!
What about that character? are you finished? I think you should make the guy to a new C&C so that he'll get fair looking. Now he's a bit stiff...
And to all other sad facec, you're wrong! this shows that with hard work (and ofcourse good technique) you can do miracle. It's just to start with something that seems impossible and fight!
Thank you Dorcan... you who bring light AND colour to us amateur artists! ;)
Wow, this is an awesome picture indeed!
I love the detail and the lights/shadows/colors work.
Now, I don't like to pester all of you artists with the same qestion, but - do you think you could turn the process of creating this background into a tutorial? I'd really like to learn more about the steps that led you from the sketch to the second and third version posted here. And I also don't fully understand the way you determined the shape and position of the shadows.
I really look forward to playing that game. Keep up the good work!
Dorcan, congraaaatulations.
It's beautiful, I assume you have done some light/shadow studies, for it really shows in your art.
I can say I have hardly seen such skill on this forum as well,. I know some ask for tutorials, and actually you should visit sites like: http://www.conceptart.org/
(thunerstorm)
They draw together, color each other pieces etc. What's important when you begin is try to train in coloring, not detailing. Color value/light/shadow studies. People there for example make a scene per 30 or 60 minutes, just roughly. the result is rough, yet you can evaluate the use of colors and logic in lightning everytime. Working like that pretty much means setting up a palet and imagining a scene(some perspective) getting it into photoshop and starting to color/smear and keep adjusting. For pure color/value work your goal would be to try to create a shape, purely on lighting and shadow. without light, there is no shape, no dimension. lines are something else, you know.
Anyway, .. Dorcan: it's so pretty, the beautiful blend of a cartooney touch with such lightning and warm colors. What I also often see a consistent shaprness or softness to a whole image, you however have beautifully defined certain objects, blurred others.
I couldn't quite tell if you got that my last post was sarcastic. I just thought you were getting sick of every post being this is great and WOW how did you draw this. Anyway when I look at this drawing I feel that I should just burn all my art supplies and never pick up a pencil again because what is the point. I could never draw as good as this. You are like the soup nazi of art. I got to sit down. (That was a reference from Sienfeld just in case you didnt know. I wasnt actually calling you a nazi.)
/me drops dead.
Dude, you should work for Runaway 2 or A vampire story. THats just unbelievable.
Darth Mandarb : Well, if you quits
being an artist, I commit suicide !!
The mouse indeed needs shadow, thanks for pointing it out, and thank you for your comments
YOke :Ã, ;D :-*
mätzyboy : oouh yeah good idea, I'll change the safe lock !
About the lighter shadows, mmh well I guess I exaggerated the chair "radiosity". I'll fix that.
Andail : Hey Thanks, but nah it's far from perfect, and nothing can be perfect ! ...what for a philosopher I am :P
blackbird :Ã, :)
lgm : that was nice thank you.
Nhazgul : yeah I don't really now about the character. It's been a while since I worked on it (actually I did post it in the critics lounge. It was very constructive) and I'm thinking about redoing it... Well, I have to see with my "collaborator", who's at the army for the momentÃ, :-\
I actually have finished two little games, and I hope I will be able to finish this one.
Thanks for the praise, even if I still don't deserve itÃ, ;)
ThunderStorm : A tutorial ? hehe why notÃ, . I have to finish redoing my website first. Don't ask me why
Ryz : well yeah, I learned the basic colors & volume theories at school (I choosed the "Art" section :P) but I'm not sure if we had any theory on lights & shadows. I think I learned much more by looking at others artwork.
Thank you very much for your commentsÃ, :)
Morgan : hehe sorry, in fact I wasn't sure at all if it was a joke or not. It seemed so... real that I thought you should have been posting in the wrong threadÃ, ;D.
I'm not getting sick of compliments, because, and I don't think someone will object, it's pleasant for the ego, but you're right, it's better to get advices and critics.
Oh, in case you weren't being sarcastic this time, Nazhgul said something quite interesting :
QuoteAnd to all other sad facec, you're wrong! this shows that with hard work (and ofcourse good technique) you can do miracle. It's just to start with something that seems impossible and fight!
I'll add my 2 cents : We should keep in mind that the point is not to be better than the others, but to be better than ourself ! yeah ! Keep practicing and be happy for the others.
It was easy, but so true.
Vel : * Dorcan gets Vel up. Thank you sir !
Not sure I'm following this. Dorcan's WIP background looks great so we all have a big circle jerk???
You can love something and think its great and all that rubbish, but still offer some constructive criticism (the entire point of the Critic's Lounge existence). Saying that you saw the background and dropped dead is a nice compliment, but it really doesn't help Dorcan.
This is an on going "problem" with the critics lounge, Big Brother.
People argue that posting wows and such is fine and people argue that it just bogs down the critics lounge... I suppose there really isn't any way to curb it since it's come up so often.
as for the image, i love it and it's gorgeous and wow and holy crap.
however I think the chair is lacking. it just doesn't look right. And I'm confused as to what that thing is in the lower right of the bookcase. Is it a door that slides over to cover the safe and papers? Is it made of wood or metal? It looks like a bronze box to me.
Eric
i can't believe my eyes that background is great i wish i could draw like that :o ;D 8)
Some things:
(http://w1.872.telia.com/~u87210460/AGS/bureau-couleurs02_mod1.gif)
(i) Many of the reflections/highlights (I marked some with blue lines) shouldn t be visable from the viewers position. Some of them might not be reflections of the lamp, but doesn t correspond to any highlitten spots shaped in the manner from what I can make out.
(ii) The chair shadow is off from what I can tell. For the shadow to be cast in the manner of the pic, the lamp would have to be more deeply set in the room.
(iii) Some flat surfaces, such as the paper bin marked with yellow, seems to contain too strong radial gradients, making them loose their depth and shape.
(iv) The plant leaves, marked with green seem to be lit from the right without lightsource present (don t think the lamplight could bounce of the walls to create that particular effect).
Beside from these and some other minor things, I concur with the praise given.
oh come on loominous, ive looked at this drawing for a while now and i really cant see anything wrong with it at all. Theres no point nitpicking at things just for the sake of it.
I take my hat off tou you man thats fantastic, cant wait to see hwat youi'll do next.
Well, whenever I see a piece like this it always makes me want to grab a pencil and piece of paper and do something equally great.... only to realize a couple of hour later that I'm never gonna be that good. It happens just occasionally and mostly Bill Tiller's art is involved... which basically means that you reached the sub- orbital of perfection (sub only because everybody can get better).
Hats off.
jaz
Ok, 15 now, Dorcan's 20, I have 5 years to get that good!!
No seriously, this is good, I just hope that the rest of the game will be this quality.
Quoteoh come on loominous, ive looked at this drawing for a while now and i really cant see anything wrong with it at all. Theres no point nitpicking at things just for the sake of it.
Reflections that shouldn t exist and shadows cast in the wrong direction is hardly nitpicking. Even they were, it s the kind of smaller things that can be improved once artwork reaches this quality.
So instead of criticising the pretty much only constructive criticism present in this thread, start looking more closely or keep quiet.
I agree with Loominous. The image is so good that Dorcan should at least keep the reflections and such in mind for the next image.
Its really hard, IMO, to work on a project alone or semi-alone. In a 'real' company, an artist can hand a picture to a co-worker or superior and say, "take a look at this and point out any errors." This is an issue I come up against time and again. The problem with the CL is that it is hard to post consistent work without giving away that you're working on a particular game and without giving away parts of said game. Not everyone wants to hype their game before they know it will even be completed.
Please Dorcan, do make a tutorial, or even just some advice on composition for us unworthies.
Love the image - but what is that on the bottom shelf of the cabinet - next to the safe but closer to the viewer?
Big Brother : It's also my fault, I should have asked for constructive comments, and ask questions. Just showing what I've done without asking for help wasn't really wise.
MrColossal : Thank you. Could you be a bit more specific about the chair ? Is there a problem with perspective, or do you feel like it was unbalanced and about to fall ?
Yes, the thing next to the safe is supposed to be a door... A glass in fact! I wanted it to be a tinted glass, but I obviously missed the effect. I will make it more transparent.
Fawfulhasfury : well... thanks
loominous : Wops, never thought about it, I was just putting highlight there and there, feeling it would look "ok"... How exactly do you determine where highlights are supposed to appear ?
I think I will have to change the lamp position, because otherwise I will have to change all the casted shadows. I was considering the lamp as being just over the monitor, as you can see on my previous shema.
Thank you for pointing this out !
DanClarke : Yeah thank you, I also can't wait to see more from your upcoming game!
Well, my background has nothing really special... It was a big improvement for me, but I'm always whiling to get advices on how to improve my work :)
Jaz : hehe thank you, but I think you shouldn't think like that. You know, I never thought I could achieve what I've been able to do. It's a matter of time you're spending on details, on colors you choose which give a mood/atmosphere to your background, etc.
I've seen a lot of beautiful backgrounds, and mine is far from being as good as theses. Just an exemple from conceptart.org (http://www.conceptart.org/artist/jason-manley/images/jason-manley-2b.jpg).
So, as I said before, the idea is not to be better than others, but to be better than ourselves. I think your art is really good. You've been able to try different styles from what I've seen so far, something I haven't really been able to do for the moment. I keep with an old-fashioned style, so eh !
Clueless3 : I hope so :)
Hollister man : I'll see what I can do.
Johnny Odd : I already answered to MrColossal.
Well, this is it! Now I know I've seen the perfect background!
It's just beautiful. No, beautiful doesn't even suffice!! It's magnificent! It makes me, and probably most of us, so jealous we just want to scrap all our backgrounds and just go to bed and stay there.
You've done it! You aced it.!
That's beautiful!
Just...
/me drools
stunning :o
Really Great!
In what program you painted it ???