Symphonic Orchestra Soundtrack

[DoorKnobHandle]

I decided I had enough free time to work on this stuff again! Yay!

I'm still fascinated by symphonic orchestras and I've been able to get a hold of East West Quantum Leaps Symphonic Orchestra Gold Edition VST - studying Computer Science with a focus on media actually pays off some times!

So, I've composed this little intro piece: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/42455/ewql_test2.mp3

My biggest problem is that I don't know how to create these awesome, epic (Wagner) bass drum, timpani, crash, metal parts for the percussion. I just can't do it and I don't know what's wrong. This version of the track only has some very sparse parts in it. I'm talking about the percussion in these kinds of pieces: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGPp1GOPpPY

So, if you have any kind of feedback on anything or tips on how to get that kind of percussion into my song, that'd be awesome. General feedback is well appreciated too, of course.

[subspark]

So damn cool Jan!

Nicely done. Nice to see a fellow FL Studio user.
Kudos.

[DoorKnobHandle]

Thanks, Paul! I'm really just getting started with orchestral stuff. It's really exciting and different!

[xil]

What I tend to find with percussion is that the stock sounds are a basic template. You can then EQ them, compress and add effects to create the sounds you want. Take superior drummer 2.0 for example. That's a midi drum kit which is supposedly mixed/mastered/pro recorded etc etc, however, I have at least an EQ (or two!), compression, possibly some effects, and some overall mastering of my own added when I use the kit with a song.

It's difficult to give examples as I use Reaper and some vst's like ozone so it won't mean much unless you have those vst's.

This video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93e1nzd-_SY) gives a bit of example of how you can start with a kit that sounds really poor with the default settings, but then beef it up. That's in effect what you need to do to your orchestral drums, however, you'll be needing a lot more bottom end and bass for those thunderous drums and really cut the top end - I've found symbols are more about the quality of the starting sample, but you can get so much out of stuff when you learn how to EQ and add effects.

[DoorKnobHandle]

Hmm, I agree that it is important to EQ drums but I think my problem doesn't lie with the sound of the samples - I don't even know how to compose for these drums! And I can't really find any guidelines out there that would help either.

[xil]

That's a difficult one, I mean, you are being waaaay too harsh on yourself. Your sample sounds great, and the drums are composed well. You're probably holding back a little bit by thinking you can't do it, the only way I learned to program drums was to keep trying. It did help playing in bands and being around drums, but you can't beat just trial and error.

In the video you posted he really does go into a lot of detail of how he created those drums, are you familiar with midi and how to write drums in midi? Perhaps that would be a better start as midi doesn't just have "hit drum button" it can have a flam, a roll, a rim hit, a centre hit etc etc also different velocity greatly changes the sound as well. I like to use Guitar Pro to compose my midi and then move it into a DAW like Reaper to then add my VSTs to it like Superior Drummer and Massive for synth etc etc.

Maybe try to find some commercial songs which involve some of the more orchestral type drums you want, then go see if you can find a guitar pro tab for them on ultimate guitar or a similar website. That way you can see exactly how they have the midi layed out and then import that into your DAW, plug in your VST and away you go. Obviously you'll have to imagine the big bassy drum sounds when listening to the midi! Also you might need to mess about with drum maps as well with some programs so watch out for that!

Edit: found a video that might help (skip to about 5mins for the song) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P02dqh0OKYY - i'm sure you'll know but pay attention to the bottom 5 tracks

[Diamond16]

As somebody else said, change the velocities and add dynamics to the drums. For example, when the bass drum comes in at 0:50, try putting accents on the first beat of each bar, this will immediately make a difference. Also add some variation. Rather than just crotchet beats, add some variation on the last beat of every second bar, it will keep things fresh.