In the jungle... please advice.
(http://users.volja.net/zagar41/klemen/jungle.png)
!???
You made it?
Oh my god.
Marry me! Marry me!
If you're male, I'm already collecting money for a trip to UK--
I can cook and clean and remove spyware and...
Er, though it's a sin to crit something as awesome like this, I suggest making water brighter color. Maybe even add some bits of green or brown, to get a bit better tone.
Also, some small, but strong color variety, such as tiny red or blue flower thinges on vines or something similar would be cool.
Ah, and the tree thingy over the chasm should produce a shadow of some sort.
Jesus, I feel so... weak.
I am a male too :| so we have a no go :) about the marriage :) (At least I read in your profile that you are a male.)
I don't get the point for UK thou :) , I am from Slovenia..
Hmm cook and clean, that is good :) , but removing spyware is the THING i need! ;D ;D
About the water, i will change it a bit because i must make and moving animation for it, and i will add more bright spots too.
I will see about the flowers, i must experiment a bit to see if it fits.
About the shadow, as the sun is still low, the shadow is cast beyond the screen (current picture) i guess :), but i will see what can be done..
The river bothers me too. That blue color is something I would expect from a very deep pool of water with nothing but the sky being reflected on it, or a very bright bottom. If it is not supposed to be transparent, I would go with desaturated green color, and if it was, you could make the bottom more visible.
But that was just nitpicking. Odlična slika! :)
Awesome bg, as said, the only thing id change is the reflection colour, bare in mind that with rivers, the reflection colour is usually a mixture of the colour of whatever the water reflects and the colour of the banks beneath the water. The mixture depends on how deep the water is. Great job though :)
Quote from: Sektor 13 on Fri 30/12/2005 23:09:44
I am a male too :| so we have a no go :) about the marriage :) (At least I read in your profile that you are a male.)
Does it not occur to you that he might be gay? But you're evidently not so yeah, still a no go!
Whoops off topic, but then I too have no complaint s about your beautiful image!
Gay? I was just trying to get close to him to secretly download his skills into my brain using a handy mindbender I got at eBay. And then perform a cruel murder so no one but me can use colors so nicely! muahah-- *khm*
This is nice you realy improoved your BG skills.
All the off-topic feels like blasphemy. It's gorgeous. I've got no crit on the foreground.
The water seems a bit, forcefully blue. Particularly in a slow-flowing portion, I'd imagine it'd be a muddier color. Rivers in jungle pics I see are usually like this (http://www.bluemorphotours.com/image/picture/aucayacu_river_1_small.jpg), with the bluer ones being no more saturated than this (http://www.worldclips-stock-footage.com/images/dynamic/JungleRiverBend-ws-pov.jpg). What I picture in my head for correction is more like this (http://www.budgetexpeditions.com/elements/pictures/gallery/Ecuador,-Amazon-jungle,-tub.jpg), maybe without the inner-tubers.
Other than saturation/brightness, it's non-reflective which makes it clash with the rest of the wonderfully-rendered detailed background.
Some of the more angled or vertical surfaces of the surrounding hills seem to keep the plantlife level too consistent. Between difficulties of growing on more vertical surfaces (which usually have rock or sporadic plantlife holding them in place), I'd imagine the area nearer the water would have fewer plants. The hills, at present, are almost carpeted with them.
The river banks seem too light-colored, being more the color of sand at a beach. I'd assume that at least the border would be water-logged and take on a muddier, darker hue.
Of course, I'm only being nit-picky as I felt quite capable of gasping in awe and leaving it at that. I'm intensely curious as to what upcoming game might feature this.
Aside from the horizontal shading streaks in the upper left (which clash with the vertical vines), I believe you should make backgrounds for me IMMEDIATELY.
I agree about the water ! I am on my way .!. ;D
That foreground is outstanding! The only two problems I see are the river (which has been mentioned so I won't say a thing) and the mountains in the back. They seem too dull and grey compared to the fresh green of the foreground. Maybe it's just nitpicking, but if it were a little greener, I think the whole thing would pop even more.
I second adding some flowers or something, to contrast the green. Little details like animals and flowers are always my favorite parts of jungle and forest backgrounds. Maybe that's just me being girly again.
Really Really Excellent! (cept for the water of course) May I ask what Program you use?
Paint Shop Pro 10
They're up to 10 now?!?! o_O
I've still got a copied version of PSP5 on a disk...
to bad dreamcatcher only does 3d now they would hire you!
wow! thats amazing. this is a piece of art man. i wish i could do something like that from scratch.
could you maybe do a tutorial for the rest of us? did u use any reference? i would so like to learn how to do backgrounds like this, since bgs are my weak spot.
this was a reference, a bit i just needed an idea and some kind of position..
(http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:72ap6Wbc9lIJ:us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/universal_pictures/king_kong/skullisland2.jpg)
so i first draw this:
(http://users.volja.net/zagar41/klemen/junge.png)
-> then i used a lot of LIGHTEN AND DARKEN TOOL !!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I drawed this today:
(http://users.volja.net/zagar41/klemen/jungle2.png)
::)
Ouch.
Same technique I use.
But you're so much better!
it is? I tried different kind of ways to start a background, this one looks to be the best for the moment :) .
Say, nice technique you have there :)
Few crits with the first image:
- No warm colors, so everything seems to fade back
- Generally good use of desaturation for the atmospheric perspective, but the river is inconsistent. It seems to be drawn to the front of the picture, even against the banks.
- The shading on the right side of the arch is confusing. Is it nearer to the camera? The shape suggests so, but the lighting says otherwise.
- The hues should shift between the "walls" and the "floor" on the bg, making the walkable areas clear and usable for an adventure game.
If you don't understand any of this, let me know. I might be able to find time to do a sloppy edit.
Actually I do not :)
Here's the sloppy edit. I lost most of your fiddly detailing, so pay most to the attention to the color. The object here is not to replicate a painting or photo, but to make a background that gives clear direction to a player.
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/jungle3.png)
EDIT: I looked at my background again, and there's still the depth problem with the land bridge (present in the original). Unsure if it's going away from the camer then arching back or what's going on there.
I am sorry, but making sure that walls and floor have clearly different colors/hues or are clearly seperated in any way seems like a pretty stupid thing a bg "should" have and I totally disagree. I like the fact that everything is basically green. It really gives it a good jungle look. And while it might seem to have some depth issues I think that is actually okay too. Distances in jungle atmospheres can be suprisingly deceptive in real life and I see no reason why that can't carry over into game graphics. I think the only real problem is the water. Trying to "fix" the other things would likely take a very long time to be effective, and could still end up having almost no noticeable effect unless you put old and new side by side.
Quote from: Sektor 13 on Fri 30/12/2005 22:55:58(http://users.volja.net/zagar41/klemen/jungle.png)
(http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/4112/image29ra.gif) (http://imageshack.us)
Very quick and sloppy color edit...
Hmm... My water is better (in my opinion) but I think my edit isn't green enough...
the 1st one looks like King Kong (u know that island)
the 2nd one looks like... uhm it looks like... erm I dunno but I like the 1st one more
Some things I did:
1. Made the water murkier to reflect the color of the surroundings
2. Removed some of the horizontal lines in the upper left.
3. Made a path more visible on the bridge.
(http://members.cox.net/progzmax/jungle.gif)
I made the river very deep so I'm not sure if it fits with your image or not.
I think the main problem is the composition. Are we looking at two arches, one crossing over to form an X in top view?
Try something:
Cover the right half with your hand and study it. The left side of the path seems to arch away from the camera while the top part seems to come towards it.
Now cover the left side. The land bridge is straight or even going towards the camera a little. The top part actually crosses all the way over the land, blocking any view of the room's exit.
Are these arches tree trunks? Or some sort of formation on an alien planet?
Sorry if I digress in the next part of this post, but stupidity drives me wacko, especially when it's directed at me... :)
Quote from: LilBlueSmurf on Tue 03/01/2006 23:23:34I am sorry, but making sure that walls and floor have clearly different colors/hues or are clearly seperated in any way seems like a pretty stupid thing a bg "should" have and I totally disagree.
Hahahahahaahahahaha.... Well, that clears up that. Your point is totally proven with this statement. I'll just quit my job now so you can take it.
QuoteDistances in jungle atmospheres can be suprisingly deceptive in real life and I see no reason why that can't carry over into game graphics.
Distances anywhere can be deceptive when someone's as blind as you are. But even if this is true, and atmospheric perspective somehow doesn't apply, why the fuck would a creator want basic elements of their background to be "deceptive"? The point of game graphics is not so much to reflect reality, but to provide visual cues that the player can easily understand.
QuoteTrying to "fix" the other things would likely take a very long time to be effective, and could still end up having almost no noticeable effect unless you put old and new side by side.
No, seriously. What the fuck are you talking about? Are you saying that it's impractical to "fix" someone else's work? I never said my edit was the ONLY WAY to improve the bg. In fact, If you actually read what I wrote, I said it was a SLOPPY EDIT. And I think it's obvious that it lacks the polish of the original, but apparently you thought I believed it to be on par.
As for putting the images side by side, here are a few tips, Lilgaysmurf:
1. Use the BACK button on your browser. It should be right up there around the FILE drop down menu on your internet browser.
2. Save the files on your hard drive and open them in your paint program of choice. Maybe then you can actually look at them up close before forming some asinine opinion.
Don't get mad, you had this coming.
The original picture, apart from the oft-pointed out river issue, is fine. Thumbs up to Sektor! No doubt when it fills the screen with game characters etc it'll all pull together. Indeed, if you want more reference material Sektor, how about the jungle section in Broken Sword 2? :)
Regards,
Yickle.
I think the blueness of the river is something you shoudl address. The water would only be blue if there was a clear blue sky above it, and because your in the jungle, only green stuff is above it, so the water should be greeny brown. Ill PO soon
BB- Keep your language and insults under control. While Littlebluesmurf may have said your idea was 'stupid' he did not say YOU were stupid, so knock off the personal attacks and get over it.
BOTH OF YOU- do not create a flamewar with your attitudes. If you have a problem, take it to private messages.
Hehe, this debate really got hot !
Well, i fixed water couple of days ago, but i didn't yet uploaded my picture, i added some "yellowish" shine on the grass and darken some parts as the Big Brother suggested,Ã, but that is all, and i will not fix the background anymore. for now :)
By the way, there is a part of the sky above the river, so it can be a blue with a bit of a green.
EDIT:
here is new pic:
(http://users.volja.net/zagar41/klemen/jungleX.png)(http://users.volja.net/zagar41/klemen/jungle.png)
x2
(http://users.volja.net/zagar41/klemen/jungleX.png)
Edit by Andail: Displayed resized version. It's not an official rule, but magnifying low-resolution art will make it easier to see. Great background by the way!
heya sektor. Your bg rocks. I finally downloaded stargate. Can't wait to play after i saw this bg. "The String" - sounds cool :)
yeah, i also downloaded stargate after ive seen ure bgs here. i have dial-up, and so i downloaded it over a few internet sessions. thats why i didnt download it previously, since it was bit big. but now i have, and gonna play right away. it seems u use a sort of matte-painting technique for ure bgs. but not quite.
love the latest version.
I think you nailed it with this last edit.. fantastic!
Yeesh man, sorry. Ã, I didn't mean to sound like I was calling you down or anything, I guess stupid was a bad word, I appologize. Ã, Please relax on the backlash though as it almost made me want to say things I would regret. Ã, To clarify:
Background/path color difference doesn't seem like a must have because it can be very impractical when trying to convey certain moods or atmospheres. Ã, (Sorry again for using 'stupid')
Having a 'background' that is not clear cut could be seen as deceptive, but when trying to convey tension or confusion a player character feels it is sometimes useful to make the actual player feel a bit of confusion. Ã, In this case, treking through a vast jungle could be quite tense and scary. Ã, Is it more important to make sure the picture has correct perspectives and obvious objects (trees vs rock formation) or to relay the overall feeling of a place? Ã, I guess that is a question the author has to answer.
When I mentioned 'fixing' the image, I did not mean to involve your paintover in anyway. Ã, I work in a very quick turnaround art market, and so the thinking behind this may not be relevent to a fan game. Ã, Basically, I ment that, yes, after much work most images will eventually look almost just as you invisioned, but where do you draw the line? Ã, Do you work on one piece for 3 months until it is just right, or manage the major issues and accept less important details in order to get a piece out faster? Ã, Again something that will just have to be decided each time.
To BB, it is apparent that a main focus for you is on ease of use so we may again have differing oppinions as my main concern will most usually be just the look, so please don't bash. Ã, I am quite amazed at your indifference to blasting out insults however, and hope that you keep in mind we are one community here. Ã, You seem to be fairly regular contributor and it would just be nice to see the regulars more often taking the higher ground to keep the community stronger. Ã, I appologize again, and for anyone else, I will NOT insult on purpose, and should I do so by a too critical remark or misused word please let me know privately. Ã, (And sorry for causing all this off topic chatter).
you got it much better in the last edit, but you still need to get rid of those horizontals in the top left, see progs edit for what i mean.
Sorry to post this publicly...but, I did insult you publicly, LBS.
I was an ass. Hope all can be forgiven. I have a quick fuse when general dismissal statements are used without any kind of supporting info.
The river in the new edit looks nicer, it blends well. The purple spots are hard to read, there's still a bit of the prob with the exit being blocked from the view, and the bridge still looks twisted. As for the upper arch, I think if the highlights on the right side were darker (perhaps a tinge of a darker, cooler color) it would help portray that side as being closer to the foreground. If you moved that side of the arch further right, it might solve the exit issue, too.
I've always wondered exactly how people get such details into their work, especially not-terribly-hi-res art like this. It's fantastic.
Quote from: esper on Thu 05/01/2006 07:12:04
I've always wondered exactly how people get such details into their work, especially not-terribly-hi-res art like this. It's fantastic.
hey I was going to say something like that :P
Quote from: Zooty on Wed 04/01/2006 22:47:06
you got it much better in the last edit, but you still need to get rid of those horizontals in the top left, see progs edit for what i mean.
Will do !
Quote from: Igor on Wed 04/01/2006 22:23:55
I think you nailed it with this last edit.. fantastic!
Thanks.
Quote from: esper on Thu 05/01/2006 07:12:04
I've always wondered exactly how people get such details into their work, especially not-terribly-hi-res art like this. It's fantastic.
I wondered that too, but figured out that even thou resolution is low, you can make wonders with appropriate colors and lines, look "the Dig" game, it has incredible graphics !
Quote from: Mordalles on Wed 04/01/2006 22:05:18
yeah, i also downloaded stargate after ive seen ure bgs here. i have dial-up, and so i downloaded it over a few internet sessions. thats why i didnt download it previously, since it was bit big. but now i have, and gonna play right away. it seems you use a sort of matte-painting technique for ure bgs. but not quite.
love the latest version.
Quote from: buloght on Wed 04/01/2006 21:53:14
heya sektor. Your bg rocks. I finally downloaded stargate. Can't wait to play after i saw this bg. "The String" - sounds cool :)
Hope you like it. :)
Quote from: big brother on Thu 05/01/2006 00:49:14
Sorry to post this publicly...but, I did insult you publicly, LBS.
I was an ass. Hope all can be forgiven. I have a quick fuse when general dismissal statements are used without any kind of supporting info.
The river in the new edit looks nicer, it blends well. The purple spots are hard to read, there's still a bit of the prob with the exit being blocked from the view, and the bridge still looks twisted. As for the upper arch, I think if the highlights on the right side were darker (perhaps a tinge of a darker, cooler color) it would help portray that side as being closer to the foreground. If you moved that side of the arch further right, it might solve the exit issue, too.
Bridge should be a bit twisted, as for arch (which is a tree - not an alien form, thou interesting idea as this is an alien planet:) ) maybe I will add a bit more "dark" colors.. i will see.
Quote from: esper on Thu 05/01/2006 07:12:04
I've always wondered exactly how people get such details into their work, especially not-terribly-hi-res art like this. It's fantastic.
Most common way: Work at high resolution then resize smaller. Not a bad thing.
Less common, but probably not by much: The 'details' are actually left over from sketching, color washing, or 'scribbling'. Bad thing.
Least common: Experience. The more you work with low res, and changing high res into low res, the more you learn how details are reduced electronically, and can reproduce the effect. Eventually you'll be able to actually improve on it because you know what you want to show up, not just an 'average' of pixels as is done mostly for electronically reducing.
Best thing (imo) is to work at larger resolutions, rescale to the correct size, then tweek the things that you think need tweeking. If you ask, you will likely find that many people on sites like Deviant Art do it this way. In the end though, natural ability always helps. Some people can just do some really amazing things and you can't learn instinct.
On that note, and to be at least a little on topic, I am looking forward to seeing more artwork that you produce for this game, it's looking very good so far :)
Quote from: LilBlueSmurf on Thu 05/01/2006 21:08:21
Quote from: esper on Thu 05/01/2006 07:12:04
I've always wondered exactly how people get such details into their work, especially not-terribly-hi-res art like this. It's fantastic.
Most common way: Work at high resolution then resize smaller. Not a bad thing.
Less common, but probably not by much: The 'details' are actually left over from sketching, color washing, or 'scribbling'. Bad thing.
Least common: Experience. The more you work with low res, and changing high res into low res, the more you learn how details are reduced electronically, and can reproduce the effect. Eventually you'll be able to actually improve on it because you know what you want to show up, not just an 'average' of pixels as is done mostly for electronically reducing.
Best thing (imo) is to work at larger resolutions, rescale to the correct size, then tweek the things that you think need tweeking. If you ask, you will likely find that many people on sites like Deviant Art do it this way. In the end though, natural ability always helps. Some people can just do some really amazing things and you can't learn instinct.
On that note, and to be at least a little on topic, I am looking forward to seeing more artwork that you produce for this game, it's looking very good so far :)
Well, i don not agree with option to resize larger images, as they become very blurry. It is easier to draw picture in low res. It is much easier to draw detailed low res, as you can draw a few pixel and achive better look. OR to say with another words, you need much more time to make detailed HIGH res screen as detailed low res. background because you must draw much more pixels.
Excellent work! Looks like a scene from king kong :D Don't have any crits, so just keep up the good work.
You are definately the coolest person ever. Your BG is AMAZING!! Do you like to drink?
I like the style of the background. Good technique, and a nice old-school feel to it with the contrast.
Here's my try on a paint-over. I'm really color-blind, so... bear with me. :)
Old:
(http://users.volja.net/zagar41/klemen/jungleX.png)
New:
(http://www.americangirlscouts.org/agsuploads/files/jungleX2.png)
(http://www.americangirlscouts.org/agsuploads/files/jungleX2.png)
- Made the colors less saturated
- Attempted to make composition more understandable by shadowing the right part of the arch
- Made walkable area on left side of the screen more obvious
- Few other little things
Again, I'm colorblind, so if the ground is a strange color, at least you know the amount of saturation I was going for. :P
EDIT: Actually, sorry about blurring the sky a little. It doesn't go with the style.
Quote from: Rap4Life42o on Fri 06/01/2006 20:45:33
You are definately the coolest person ever. Your BG is AMAZING!! Do you like to drink?
I don't drink much alcohol :D
Quote from: Geoffkhan on Sat 07/01/2006 06:59:20
I like the style of the background. Good technique, and a nice old-school feel to it with the contrast.
Here's my try on a paint-over. I'm really color-blind, so... bear with me. :)
Old:
(http://users.volja.net/zagar41/klemen/jungleX.png)
New:
(http://www.americangirlscouts.org/agsuploads/files/jungleX2.png)
(http://www.americangirlscouts.org/agsuploads/files/jungleX2.png)
- Made the colors less saturated
- Attempted to make composition more understandable by shadowing the right part of the arch
- Made walkable area on left side of the screen more obvious
- Few other little things
Again, I'm colorblind, so if the ground is a strange color, at least you know the amount of saturation I was going for. :P
EDIT: Actually, sorry about blurring the sky a little. It doesn't go with the style.
I belive you about your color-blindnes :) jungle has a more brownish-older look, it is cool is that kind of way, i see the saturation point, and darken right part of the arch, i will change my BG a bit..
The trees! Geoffs trees are lovely! But I still think it should go along with your brightish green grass.
Quote from: Babar on Sat 07/01/2006 12:17:55
The trees! Geoffs trees are lovely! But I still think it should go along with your brightish green grass.
The reason in my edit I avoided the bright green grass was that it looked a little too much like "cartoon colors." The style of shading is grittier IMO, and demands more ominous colors. :)
But the background is cool any way. Just my $.02. ;)
Damn, that looks like it could come straight out of Indy 4!