Adventure Game Studio

Creative Production => Critics' Lounge => Topic started by: Kaio on Sun 28/09/2008 16:17:12

Title: Big Indiana Jones Sprites and Animation
Post by: Kaio on Sun 28/09/2008 16:17:12
Hi there. I was just thinking about picking up my old Indy-Game idea. It probably won't be finished anyways in the next 23 years, so I just wanted to get some advice about my spriting. I did some Indiana Jones sprites that would fit in a 640x480 background.
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a147/kaio89/indy.png)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a147/kaio89/indy.png)
The most dificult thing to me was the face... So I kept it quite simple. What do you think?
Gretings, Kaio
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites
Post by: Khris on Sun 28/09/2008 16:23:15
Not bad, but the shading is completely off. The stance is a bit weird, too.
Also, don't post JPGs, they'll end up with artefacts. Use PNGs or GIFs.
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites
Post by: Sam. on Sun 28/09/2008 16:23:48
Could you post a non jpeg version? use png or something.. I wanted to look closer at it but it is full of artefacts
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites
Post by: Kaio on Sun 28/09/2008 16:26:01
Oh sorry!
Heres a png.
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a147/kaio89/indy.png)
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites
Post by: Sam. on Sun 28/09/2008 16:38:46
You see, what you've done is save the jpeg image, already with artefacts, as a png. What you need to to is save the raw bmp, or photshop or psp image as a png, to avoid artefacts.
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites
Post by: Kaio on Sun 28/09/2008 16:45:31
Quote from: Zooty on Sun 28/09/2008 16:38:46
What you need to to is save the raw bmp, or photshop or psp image as a png, to avoid artefacts.

But thats what I did. I also checked the uploaded png from my last post again, and there are no artefacts...
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites
Post by: Gilbert on Sun 28/09/2008 16:51:14
I don't see artifact in the PNG (there are in the JPEG).
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites
Post by: Sam. on Sun 28/09/2008 17:02:16
Quick paintover:

(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/indypaintover.png)
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/indypaintover.png)
As you can see i only painted on the dressed down one. I cleaned up his head and gave his face more definition, also cleaned up the shirt a bit, i thought it looked too busy but thats up to you!

Just for ideas.
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites
Post by: InCreator on Sun 28/09/2008 18:04:21
Not bad, but

* Nose is wrong. Nose stands out, is closer to the viewer. ...Which means, it should be lighter, not darker than rest of the face.
* I kind of hate those yellowish hues.  Everything looks a bit too... yellow. Try with more different color tones.
* Right shoe looks like clown's shoe. Make it shorter by 2 pixels
* Left hand on Indy with hat is strange. Make it like on version without hat.
* Version without hat has way better eyes. They don't look so clueless and dumb. Use those ones on both.

Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites
Post by: Sam. on Sun 28/09/2008 18:07:43
I think you commented on my paintover... Thanks though!

update:

Finished it on the other sprite.
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/indypaintover2.gif)
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/indypaintover2.gif)
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites
Post by: Kaio on Mon 29/09/2008 09:03:03
Thanks for all the comments. Zooty, I like all the small things you changed on the sprites. But I don't know about the face...It's hard to do a good looking face on that pixel-level. I'll experiment a bit on that. Again, thanks!
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites
Post by: paolo on Mon 29/09/2008 13:01:52
This is Indiana Jones from around what time? The face looks very boyish, as if he is a teenager. If this is "traditional" Indy rather than young Indy or Crystal Skull Indy, then he should look (early) middle-aged and rugged. The face needs to be aged. Sorry, no paintover as art is not my forte.
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites
Post by: Kaio on Mon 29/09/2008 16:06:18
It's supposed to be a post-WWII Indy. Around 1946. So he might be older than in the first 3 movies and jounger (I don't know when exactly Crystal Skull plottet) than in the 4th.
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites
Post by: Sam. on Mon 29/09/2008 18:56:09
just a little edit to maybe make him older
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/olderindy.gif)

Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites
Post by: Kaio on Thu 02/10/2008 07:28:11
I continued working on the sprites. Here's my first walkcicle:
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a147/kaio89/Indywalk1.gif)
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites and Animation
Post by: Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens on Thu 02/10/2008 10:10:56
I really like the walkcycle but his feet are a bit of a problem.  The feet look like bricks rather than shoes (making them stick out slightly to the sides and lift up more on a down step will help here).  There's also a bit of a jerking effect in one of the frames, which leads me to suspect that this could be a paintover of another walkcycle (I could be wrong, and if so I applaud your attention to detail).

One thing I did was redraw the face, which seems to be what you are having the most trouble with.

1.  Changed the skin tones more towards the red spectrum (increased blue values by about 10-20).

2.  Reshaded the face to bring out Indy's weathered features and added beard shadow.

(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr218/ProgZmax/indyfacecl.gif)

(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr218/ProgZmax/indyfacecl.gif)

I only altered 3 of your skin tones and removed one that I didn't even notice until I played with the colors.  Something to watch out for is having too many similar shades in a drawing.  They don't add to anything if people can't see them.  I think the animation itself is quite good aside from the one frame jerk back, so I think you've done a good job!

Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites and Animation
Post by: Kaio on Thu 02/10/2008 10:19:51
Wow ProgZmax, the face you've done looks awesome! That surely will help me. And alot of people are refering about the colors I choose... I'm working on my notebook and it shows the colors a bit different than a normal screen, so I didn't even noticed that there might be to much yellow and to less blue  :-\. And ProgZmax, what do you mean with "one frame jerk back"?
Thx, Kaio
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites and Animation
Post by: Gilbert on Thu 02/10/2008 10:34:57
I like the animation, but one thing that bugs me is that the head doesn't change in all the frames. As the body and the arms, legs are nicely animated with varying angles, this makes the head looks flat as a piece of paper (though the head does bop up and down and sways to the left and right, it still looks flat as it is always that straight front view). I think even just adding some slight variations to the angles of the hat (e.g. rotating clockwise/anti-clockwise slight during the motion) may help.

P.S. Progz' paintover of the face is fantasic as well.
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites and Animation
Post by: Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens on Thu 02/10/2008 10:57:02
The jerky frame occurs between frames 3 and 5 when Indy's head moves smoothly to the left one pixel at a time and then suddenly jerks back two pixels in frame 5 I think.  One way to avoid this is to make the character animate in place without swaying, like so:

(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr218/ProgZmax/Indywalkcl.gif)


This often looks more natural for game animations because of frame limitations.  I also went ahead and made his feet stand out more (no pun intended).  As Gilbet said, some variation in the facial movements, even if slight, will make his head look less like a mask and more like it is part of his body.
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites and Animation
Post by: Kaio on Thu 02/10/2008 11:21:12
Ahh, now I see, thanks. True, it looks kinda off. And I agree with you, Gilbet. I might need to animate the head as well. Overall, the whole animation needs a bit of finetuning...
Anyways, I did a quick paintover using ProgZmax' head. I altered a bit to make it fit the body a bit better. Here you can compare:
old: (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a147/kaio89/idelhat-1.png) new: (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a147/kaio89/idelhat2-1.png)

I'm just amazed how the new head looks. It fits perfectly imo :D.
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites and Animation
Post by: derboo on Thu 02/10/2008 15:01:01
I think the elbows look a bit stiff in the walkcycle, no?
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites and Animation
Post by: Ryan Timothy B on Fri 03/10/2008 00:00:34
Looks great.  But I think the legs look wrong.  Maybe I'm just taking crazy pills, but it looks like below the knees is really short, and above the knees is much longer (like 2-3 pixels longer?).  Even in the idle view it appears this way.

Love the detail on your walk cycle though.  I also agree with Gilbet about the head looking like a cut and paste mask, very flat without any movement and depth.
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites and Animation
Post by: Kaio on Fri 03/10/2008 16:54:42
Here's the final new sprite:
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a147/kaio89/indy1.png)(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a147/kaio89/indy1.png)
I altered the head a bit more.
And heres the new animation:
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a147/kaio89/indywalk2.gif)(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a147/kaio89/indywalk2.gif)
I cleaned the sprites and redid some details, like the shoulders and his belt. And I made him nodding. After a long time of animating it, I can't say if it looks good or not  :-\.
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites and Animation
Post by: Sam. on Fri 03/10/2008 16:56:11
Looking really good! My only gripe is the hat coming down over his eyes while hes walking, looks a bit odd to me, id have it bobbing slightly less.
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites and Animation
Post by: Kaio on Fri 03/10/2008 16:59:26
Yeah, thats why I'm not 100% happy with it...
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites and Animation
Post by: Matti on Fri 03/10/2008 17:07:53
Yeah, it looks really good. But I've some issues:

1. Like Zooty said, the hat coming down looks strange

2. Indy's left hand (on the right side) is too bent I think

3. The shadow right beneath his left leg is odd too. I wouldn't make it that dark.

Otherwise - again - it's a very smooth and nice animation. Great job.
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites and Animation
Post by: Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens on Sat 04/10/2008 08:01:22
I think it's looking good.  Personally I wouldn't use whites in the eyes because his eyes are shaded by the hat and it looks weird to me (which is why I didn't do it in my paintover).  Another problem is that the eyes visually look too close together this way, but if you like it that way, go for it. 

I've made an edit with a new version of the face and some adjustments to the walkcycle.

1.  Raised the knee considerably on the leg.  Also fixed right leg shape when bending.

2.  Redrew the hands at various frames to make the animation look smoother.

3.  Altered face and reduced neck size.

4.  Made the hat tilt less.

(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr218/ProgZmax/indywalk2cl.gif)

(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr218/ProgZmax/indywalk2cl.gif)


Something else to consider now that the animation is looking fluid would be to clean up the overall shading, removing unnecessary colors, stray/double pixels and fixing the shading.  The pants in particular could use more uniform shading, like having the highlights disappear as the lower part of the leg bends.  Keep at it!

Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites and Animation
Post by: Kaio on Sat 04/10/2008 08:17:07
That looks better. Yeah, in fact there would be alot more things to do. I'm looking forward doing all the other animations needed  ::). Damn, it's so time intense  ;)
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites and Animation
Post by: Trent R on Thu 09/10/2008 00:54:22
The arm on the lift still looks a little stiff IMO.
I like the new feet though, the first animation made it look like he was stepping on point.

~Trent R
~Sirus Squire
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites and Animation
Post by: Questionable on Fri 10/10/2008 01:22:05
His right arm has no elbow.
His hands seem crippled. Why are they so bent at the wrists?
His hips waggle, so much so that they don't seem connected to his body.
His chin feels a little pointy.
I think the animation is being cut off (at his feet) and it makes a big difference in the actual-pixels version.

Other than that, I love this Indy to death. Good Job!
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites and Animation
Post by: LeChuck on Fri 10/10/2008 02:17:05
This sprite looks amazing! But seriously, are you going to make a whole game with the same level of precision and weight distribution for all characters? What about the other three walkcycles? Looking forward to playing it in 2026!  :P
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites and Animation
Post by: GarageGothic on Fri 10/10/2008 09:48:24
Quote from: LeChuck on Fri 10/10/2008 02:17:05Looking forward to playing it in 2026!  :P

Quote from: kaioshin on Sun 28/09/2008 16:17:12It probably won't be finished anyways in the next 23 years

More like 2031, you'll have to hold out for five more years, LeChuck. Man, I can't wait to play this game on the holographic display in my flying car  ;D. Apart from what others have already pointed out it's looking great, kaioshin. Good luck with the project!
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites and Animation
Post by: Jens on Fri 10/10/2008 12:21:53
What about the highlights on the trousers? If they result from light-influences they should look differently (become larger/smaller, depending on the direction of the light) in the different leg positions.
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites and Animation
Post by: Kaio on Sun 12/10/2008 18:59:19
Quote from: GarageGothic on Fri 10/10/2008 09:48:24

More like 2031, you'll have to hold out for five more years, LeChuck. Man, I can't wait to play this game on the holographic display in my flying car  ;D. Apart from what others have already pointed out it's looking great, kaioshin. Good luck with the project!

:P I know it's alot of work. I probably won't finish the game anyway, but it was fun to me making this walkcycle. I already work on the other 7 walkcycles (don't forget the diagonal ones  :D). But nothing animated to show till now. Most problem for me creating the game certainly will be backgrounding, since I'm not very good in it. And of course I know that the sprites could be better, but hell, I don't wanna waste more time on them. Theres so much other stuff to do ;).
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites and Animation
Post by: Kaio on Tue 20/01/2009 13:17:59
... as I promised:

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a147/kaio89/indyback-1.gif)(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a147/kaio89/indyseite-1.gif)(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a147/kaio89/indywalk2.gif)

Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites and Animation
Post by: Misj' on Tue 20/01/2009 13:37:30
Quote from: kaioshin on Tue 20/01/2009 13:17:59
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a147/kaio89/indyseite-1.gif)

Based on the motion of his body, he puts greater weight on his right foot than on hist left when he places it on the ground (unlike the front and back view).
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites and Animation
Post by: bog on Tue 20/01/2009 15:31:47
i don't think the leg should still be bent at the knee when it's at the end of the front motion (hope you understand). also his right hand goes up too much. He kinda also seems like he doesn't have a neck in the side view.
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites and Animation
Post by: Galen on Tue 20/01/2009 15:46:53
Wow. That walkcycle is really fluid. Nice job.
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites and Animation
Post by: Trihan on Tue 20/01/2009 16:36:51
In the back-to-us cycle it looks like he's holding his right arm behind him. It doesn't look natural. Other than that, great job.
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites and Animation
Post by: ALPHATT on Tue 20/01/2009 18:33:00
I like the walkcycle. it's really smooth.
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites and Animation
Post by: Raider on Wed 21/01/2009 00:58:08
In the walking-left-cycle his left bicep is too chunky.

Also he looks likes he's limping because of the extra 'jump' forward as it gets to his right leg. Pull it back a pixel or two and see if that cleans it up.

Awesome job!
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites and Animation
Post by: SpriteGuy26 on Tue 12/01/2010 03:17:22
It Is Really Fluid! Great job!  :) He may need a little more motion in his neck, it seems a little stiff. Other then that Awesome job!
Title: Re: Big Indiana Jones Sprites and Animation
Post by: Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens on Tue 12/01/2010 03:20:45
This thread is nearly a year old.  Please read the forum rules about dredging up old threads.