So, i've recently decided to, with a team of friends, develop a webcomic. We have planned to get the hosting ASAP, but until that time, here are a few early snippets
PS: If anyone remembers my 'Blip And Radar' post in the Critic's Lounge, this is the same series.
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/Blip.gif) (http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/Radar.gif) (http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/Radarette.gif)
Blip, Radar and Radarette, the three main characters.
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/'Tension'.gif)
One of the first strips [VERY HEAVILY WORK IN PROGRESS!(especially the car's block-shape!)]
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/A_Title_You_Wish.gif)
Another strip i did a few days ago. Note how, even when not focusing on the characters in the world of the strip (ie, me coming in and explaining something), it still maintains the graphic character style. Also pretty WIP.
So, yeah, we'll be getting the hosting once we have some more strips written up and some Work In Progresses finished, which should be within the next two months or so, and until then i'll continue putting up some work in progresses and whatnot.
Cheers,
Fluke and the 'Blip And Radar' Team
only three strips and already one of them is a space filler? Wow.
Heh, the joke was on the prescence OF space fillers in modern webcomics, not a space filler in it's own right ;D
Modern webcomics in contrast to ancient webcomics cut on rock and put on the gravelnet.
I recommend that you go to a library and get "The Joy of Work" by Scott Adams (creator of Dilbert) and read the section on humour. There's a summary of it at http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2005/12/humor_formula.html
His idea is basically that the core of humor is the 2-of-6 rule. In order for something to be funny, you need at least two of the following elements:
Cute (as in kids and animals)
Naughty
Bizarre
Clever
Recognizable (You've been there)
Cruel
Now, not only have you got to try for these thingsm, you;ve got to do them in a funny way. In your first strip, you're aiming for cute, recognisable and cruel. I think you need to work a bit on the character design to make them a bit cuter, but they're a bit of the way there. Recognisable: well, I'm guessing that the first panel is burnt toast, but I'm not sure. Second panel is car exploding (not particularly recognisable) and the last one also misses the recognisability. And cruel, well it is a bit, but more physical pain on Blip would be fuinnier.
Second strip is only going for recognisability. It gets it, but only has 1 of 6 and so fails again.
Don't worry about your artwork so much: the humour is the thing.
I really don't think a set of rules exists for humor. You either have it (and the ability to share it) or you don't. That said, I've never found Dilbert to be funny at all.
Going off on an even further tangent than present right now, but I don't think there is any such skill (presenting humour, painting, musical creation) that either a person has, or doesn't have. Any skill can be worked upon, even from scratch. That being said, I don't believe in any such 'divisions' in humour as a very good sort of comedy, or something that is crap. Something that makes you ROFLOFLF is better than something that makes you giggle madly? I'm sure some people will find the Flukeblake style of humour funny, and some will not. It's his job to make it work for the largest number of people.
1 word: Margins
The extremely...limited...art-style would work well with a very intellectual kind of humour, or possibly the surreal variety a la Acthung Franz. Unfortunately, your comic doesn't present either of those, and could benefit from being just a tad more worked on, graphically speaking.
I think the 2-of-6 concept is very interesting... for people who already can do this sort of work and want to codify their processes. It's not going to teach somebody to be funny when they're not.
Give your characters interesting situations. Taking in what people have said, a not so elegant looking character filling three blocks with a not so witty punchline just isn't going to work a great deal.
Here, I envisage blip and radar getting up to slightly crazier antics! They look more like slapstick characters to me, rather than ones who could dish out funny dialogue. But thats just my view :)
Radar buys a Satellite dish
(http://www.screen7.co.uk/junc/blipradar.jpg)
!
I don't think you should just strictly follow these x-of-6 rules. The result could be like this:
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/FAMILIAR_QUEST/Unbenannt-4.png)
I mean, it's cute (animal), naughty (stabbing), bizarre (talk stuff), clever (IQ), recongizable (I don't think I need to explain this) and cruel (same here), but still it's not funny (oh please, let this be not funny - it always ends up funny when it should not).
Also, I actually found the first one quite funny, but this probably just is the omnious german humor striking again. The second one, however... you may want to have a look at this (http://hownottodrawawebcomic.comicgenesis.com/d/20061214.html).
/EDIT: Now actually with picture.
/EDIT EDIT: Meh, I just discovered leftovers of what I once wanted to turn out as a webcomic someday. Now I know why I never showed this to the public... http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/FAMILIAR_QUEST/6-FamiliarQuestgoesHollywood.gif
Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb. 1 out of 6 (strangeness). Difficult-to-follow print. Insaneness. The work of a sick mind.
/EDIT EDIT EDIT: On re-reading, that damn blue-screen comic seems to be actually funny. Don't you dare to laugh about it, though. Don't even smile.
I personally think, and I usually always suggest this to people who are starting to make comics, just make more.
Just keep making more and eventually you'll figure some stuff out on your own and the characters will become more than just things that talk. So then when you go to write a new comic you'll know how the characters will react to a situation and the comic will come easier.
Just keep making them, more and more and more. It's practice that will only help even if they fail. Lord knows I have enough failed comics lying around. The first few strips of the majority of comics are usually crap compared to the stuff they do now.
"You're so lazy! Did you pay the bills?!" "Get off my back, I'm a kind of free spirit wacky character! I play playstation or something!" "Oh I hate you so much!"
This is pretty much what a bunch of webcomics start off as and then become something more eventually, so... Continue, please.
Thanks for the advice guys. Especially the 2-of-the-6 rules thing. I've always found Dilbert quite a humourous peek at the "office space-esque" lifestyle, and enjoy it thoroughly, so if it's good enough for Scott Adams and Gary Larson, it's good enough for meÃ, :)
Cheers,
Fluke.
PS: More updates/comics coming soon
Ello again, some more comics for your advice and critique.
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/'Vengeance'.gif)
Here, in terms of the 2-0f-6 rule, i've done recognizable (BSOD, WoW, Microsoft)and cruel (The BSOD).
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/'Kaboom!'.gif)
Here i went for bizarre (how does a small yellow creature get ahold of acid?) but couldn't really think of any other ways to make it comply to the 2-0f-6 idea.
Cheers,
Fluke.
If I'm translating his simple one-word word of advice properly, and I like to believe I am, Darth is very right that you should include a liiiiiitle more margin on the page. I have a hard time telling where one frame starts and another ends on first glance. Just put a little whitespace between them and you'll be golden.
BTW, the newer two, although still wanting a certain "Oomph," are considerably better than the first two.
Fluke,
I enjoyed the later two quite a lot! Rather clasic, but did bring a smile in my face, so job done! Do fix the margins, as Darth and Esper say. Also if you will please take a better screenshot of the blue screen in the middle as I have very hard time understanding what it says (although of course, I know what it says...)
In terms of humour, keep on writing, every day, every single day.
In terms of drawing... :-/ you have some way to go really, but the thing is that in the last comic it seems that you spent 2 minutes, copy pasting the first frame into the other two. Try to make at least some differences to show that they are differnt after all...
:)
Lo,
while i understand what Darth and esper are saying, i really feel that having the black line there clearly shows the fact that the panel ends.
Cheers,
Fluke.
I think that last one is the funniest thing I've ever seen from you. Didn't make me LOL, but it's cute.
I disagree
(http://kafkaskoffee.com/junk/blip.png)
Much easier to read.
Dammit. Eric's on top of things. My edit was the same thing, only with the addition of small, downturned lines above the blobby little yellow guy's eyes to symbolize disgust with his friend's dissuasion, to show how even a slight change in the graphics (besides flipping the mouth upside down, whatever that was supposed to signify... am I the only one who even noticed that?) can change the meaning and thereby the humor of a comic frame.
I think Nik said something to you the other day about this... If you're going to put something up in a forum where people can critique it (I understand you put it up originally in gen-gen and not CC, but still), follow the advice of those more experienced and talented than yourself. I know I'm not the most famed developer on these boards, but when you've got me, Mr. Colossal, and Darth Mandarb telling you to do something, it is probably a good idea. If you don't want to follow critiquing, just pay for hosting and put the comic up instead of letting us have the opportunity to help you make it better.
I think you need better humour, since they're not very funny really... I mean, why would the microsoft support guy scream about his eyes when you phoned him up about receiving a BSOD? And also I have never, ever got a BSOD since updating from Windows 98, so this joke is unbelievably outdated...
Just my two cents: Scott Adams's rule of six is useful, at least if you like his kind of humour (I know I do). I don't normally think of it until after I do my first draft, though.
Fluke, I think you've got the joke formula down well, and although the jokes aren't really original, your timing is good. The best advice I got about comics was "Tell funny jokes, not funny ideas." A monkey and a banana sharing an apartment is a funny idea. If the banana walks into the room and says, "Hey Mr. Chimps, have you seen Cheryl?" you might have yourself a joke.
Oh, and add some spaces between the panels, especially since Blip and Radar don't move much. If you were drawing these by hand it would be more of a pain, but since you're doing them on paint there's really no reason not to.
Quote from: Yutzster on Sun 28/01/2007 03:26:03
Why would the microsoft support guy scream about his eyes when you phoned him up about receiving a BSOD?
He didn't phone up. He went into the building with a weapon of some sort. Perhaps that wasn't a given, but i think the fact the support guy was in some sort of pain was?
Also, yes, i've decided to follow your advice and add spaces.
Cheers,
Fluke.
Quote from: Yutzster on Sun 28/01/2007 03:26:03
I think you need better humour, since they're not very funny really... I mean, why would the microsoft support guy scream about his eyes when you phoned him up about receiving a BSOD? And also I have never, ever got a BSOD since updating from Windows 98, so this joke is unbelievably outdated...
There must be something I did wrong. Win XP produces less BSOD, yes, but they still show up quite frequently. And the Microsoft guy says "Welcome to the building", so I guess the yellow blob didn't phone him. And I guess the "my eyes"-stuff refers to the yellow blob taking them out of the Microsoft guy's head (or my imagination is just wicked).
I, for one, thougt the fire/acid comic was funnier, though.
I rather liked your fire/acid comic. :)
It's very hard to do a funny microsoft-stuff-crashing joke unless you have something very unique happening in the punchline.
It'd be good for you to develop Blip and Radar's characters more.
I was actually referring to the text in the speech bubbles ...
There's no uniformity to the spacing/margins and it looks very amateur-ish.
This goes back to what I've always said about your art Fluke; you appear to always be in a hurry and don't take a few extra seconds to smooth something out and ensure it looks good before moving on to the next. Youthful vigor is all well and good, but rushing art is not.
Examples:
- the margins in the speech bubbles
- the double pixels everywhere
- anti-aliasing in some places, not in others (the pointers of the speech bubbles)
- shading on some things, not on others
It looks very hurriedly mashed together. No consistency. There's something to be said about a "style", sure, but this doesn't feel stylistic to me, it feels like 2 minutes.
Some suggestions:
- Slow it down man ... take your time! I guarantee you, in the end, you'll be far happier with the results if you take your time while developing.
- Write about things you know about, not things you've heard about. You're a young kid ... you don't have worldly experiences (I'm guessing) so writing about global politics probably isn't a good idea and will sound like a kid pretending. Don't be afraid to be young!
- Did I mention slow it down?
Another one i did a week ago and just finished some final editing for.
Notice the spaces between panels!
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/'My_Eyes!!!'.gif)
Enjoy!
Fluke
PS: I'm well aware you can't read the little writing in the computer. It's done intentionally, it's a little in-joke between my friends and I.
Really? I can read it easily. Does Jimmy really smell?
I like your use of expressions in this one. I think you're slowly progressing, it didn't make me laugh, but it is amusing. :)
EDIT: It's clear you are STILL rushing your artwork though. Oh look, his hair has turned red! and the actual laser beam looks like you did it in two seconds.
Same here!
This is better than the rest... ;)
you did make some space between panels, and the expressions in the blips really work! It is actualyl quite funny, ad I've seen people asking these sort of questions... "Hello, tech support? My computer is not working"
"Ok, sir what's the problem?"
"Hem, I press the open button nad it does not open"
"Is the plug pluged all the way into the socket sir?"
"Plug? There is a plug? Hold on, lemme check... No... whoops..."
"AAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaahhhh...."
True dialogue! What else is there for anyone to say?
Thanks for the comments guys, and Manic, i've fixed up the problem with the hair colour.
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/'A_Modest_Comic'.gif)
Teehee, satire.
I'm assuming this refers to some kind of current event? I don't get it. I'm guessing Mack sued someone, if that's the case, this is very basic satire on that. Well, it's just pointing it out really isn't it. Satire would be taking that same joke, and applying it to a new situation where the joke isn't immediately obvious. Does that make sense?
The expressions are better though, I do like Blip's expression at the end.
It seems all your strips are about one person saying something seemingly ordinary, and the other one getting all freaked out by it.
You could try to vary the theme of your comedy a bit.
Mack Johnson = Parody of Jack Thompson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Thompson_(attorney))
..Ohhhh.
Topical. ;)
You'd probably need slightly more Thompson-esque lines to pull that off.
Interestingly, Wiki says that JT once stated, “We intend to hurt Hollywood. We intend to hurt the video game industry. We intend to hurt the sex porn sites.â€
Thank god my non-sex porn sites are safe. ¬¬
Quote from: Flukezy on Sun 11/02/2007 01:16:52
Mack Johnson = Parody of Jack Thompson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Thompson_(attorney))
you should call him Jack Thompson I think.
The Mach Johnson thing just went over my head!
hidy ho,
Well i really like the comics, i read them out lound and chuccle to myself, lol
And,,,,, i get the BSOD all the time on XP, prob cause my computer is crap but hey., i think you should make more of the comics and im giveng you my support unlike the others, (some)
Why don't you call him "Thomp Jackson"? Or "Jock Thampson"? This'd at least increase the probability that people who have heard of Jack Thompson will get the joke.
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/flubukake1.png)
I don't pretend that this is any better than anything you did, but I got the idea for it and I wanted to make it.
- It plays on the cute aspect of the characters, and gives ideas for how you could differ their personalities. It has cruel in there too, if you wanna listen to Mr Dilbert.
- I also changed the colours, because primary colours make my retinas burn.
- The coloured bars behind Radar in the third frame are a technique I've seen a lot, it helps to emphasise the frame, and gosh darn if it doesn't make Radar seem excited about his news!
- I added the white borders to help break up the panels.
It's a verrry simple joke, but it made me giggle when I thought of it.
I loved that one! It actually made me LOL! Which the other ones sadly did not. It is possible that you'd need more than 3 frames to get the timing right for simple jokes like this.
The graphic style of the last one's better too... looks cuter, and thus enables you to play on the cute site.
'i hate you' would be better as 'your mother has just died'
Or something...
Oh, and also i added "Anti Videogame Crusader" to the line "Hi, I'm Mack Johnson". Should make the realization of who the character is parodying a bit clearer.
i was thinking you could just call him jack thompson?
give it a harder punch.
I got who he was meant to be right away, I just don't think it's particularly funny.
While Mr. Flibble's is funnier than some of the others (maybe you could try the longer format, as fovmester said, to give the joke more space to develop) I prefer the 'feel' of the originals. (I actually liked the primary colours, and those 'anime eyes' in frame 3 always bug me...)
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/'Snaaaaaake!!'.gif)
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/'Lights_Off'.gif)
In these strips i attempted to, much like the Jack Thompson and BSOD strips, incorporate pop culture, ie. Metal Gear Solid 2 and Macs.
"Silently killing his prey" would actually imply he was killing someone, wouldn't it? It just seems to me that it would make more sense as "Silently stalking his prey".
I'd say that this strip has probably improved, though as I have never played Metal Gear Solid, much of the cultural aspect of this strip is lost to me.
As for the Mac strip I think that the last frame could use a bit of work. I'm not sure how you could do it differently, the punch-line just didn't grip me as being very humorous.
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/manicmatt/BLIPPY.png)
I didn't get what was supposed to be funny about dynamite, so I thought maybe this comment would be Radar being unaware of how stupid he's acting. Funnier at all.. anyone?
Also, if there were two clicks, does that mean Blip switched the light twice? Wouldn't it be dark again?
Some light switches make a soft click and then a louder one. I can imagine the sound effect.
But yeah, for a comic? Go with one click. ManiacMatt's edit is, in my opinion, far superior. If nothing else, for the inclusion of an actual joke.
In the Snake comic... I mean, I get what's going on but... is there a joke in there? I've never had the radio thingy beep when I'm about to kill someone. What you've got there is a funny idea once again. There is a joke about Snake dying and someone yelling "SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE". It's in there. Somewhere.
I think just "Goddamnit Blip!" would be enough!
Warning, long post.
I quite like the MGS one, clumsy and obvious though it may be.
Not that it's the pinnacle of comedy, but VGCats has some funny MGS parodies...
(http://www.vgcats.com/comics/images/050926.jpg)
(http://www.vgcats.com/comics/images/050801.jpg)
I did this really quickly, might give you some ideas. It works without the thought bubbles as well.
(http://members.cox.net/progzmax/snack.gif)
May be because I never played that game... but I still like "My Eyes!", the Fire/Acid comic and "Lights off" (the original version) best.
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/'Excitable'.gif)
Everybody loves teh Burst Angel.
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/'Ghosts'.gif)
This strip spawned when a friend mentioned to me that my characters look like the ghosts in Pac-Man.
Cheers,
Fluke
These ones made me smile.
I don't understand the second one at all but it's making me giggle- maybe cause I'm currently lacking sleep and I like the bizarreness.
I know nothing about Burst Angel, so it'd be pointless for me to comment about that. However, in the 2nd comic, while I realise the line of thought after the description you gave underneath, from just reading the comic I don't get it. When he says "Close, but no cigar, man", I'm not understanding what he's talking about. The "..." and talk about Bob make it even more confusing. Unfortunately, even after I (kind of) got the joke, I still didn't find it funny.
Is the point in the second one that they're having a casual chat, and the guy comes as if he's part of the comic, but then he isn't, only close?
And is the point int he first about the show and the expressinos? I wouldn't say Burst Angel would be the best to that, but I haven't seen that so much. But you know how it would get better a lot? Add one frame where he just stares with a plain face before the last one. Here, I'll show you: (http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/4551/excitableym5.png)
You see, when you do this, you'll give the reader some time, a whole frame's time to realise what's happening. Whereas, when you jump into it as quick as you did, most people won't notice the change. I hope I got it right, and this is what you were on about ;)
Aha! Yes!
I like these ones, definately moving in the right direction now. I haven't seen Burst Angel either but I get the premise of the strip, and it did raise a smile.
The Pacman one is a little harder to get but I smiled again just from the "Close but no cigar, man." I wasn't expecting it, but it worked. It seemed to me like Bob was the ghost, I don't know if that's what you were going for.
From a visual perspective the expressions are very nice, I love the D: on Blip in the 2nd panel. Might be an idea to give them some feet? Or round them off at the bottom perhaps.
How about a comic explaining why "Radarette" didn't show up yet? ;)
NOOoooooooow I get it!
Yup the pacman one is cool! I'm actually laughing now! The first one needs 1 additional panel to work, as tuomas indicated.
Both are inthe right direction!
Additionally I'm glad to see you making so much progress and not abondoning something, for probably one of the first times, which makes me ultra happy! :)
I hope this is taken as it is intended, none of these comics are funny. I haven't laughed or even smiled after reading any of them. The jokes are either too convoluted to make sense or they are tired internet cliches. As far as the art is concerned, I think progz has shown you that even within MSpaint, you can produce something that looks good, progZ edit didnt require huge skill, just a touch more patience than your art would imply that you indulge in when you are drawing.
Sorry to be a moaner, but maybe take some more time, really think about your jokes, try hader with your art and overall just spend more time on it.
Okay, The site is now up. (http://www.blipandradar.blogspot.com)
Obviously i hope to get proper hosting and a dotcom domain, but this is just a temporary hosting place until i can store it on a more permanent location.
Cheers,
Fluke.
PS: If you could join the forums, that'd be great :)
Theres another webcomic thats really funny. Its called Ctrl+Alt+Del and its about two guys that just sit around playing video agmes all day its sooooo funny :D :D :D :D :D
Ahem... yes. You know you just veryfied (spelling? at a complete loss :P - verifyed? verified? veryfyed?) about 99.99% of all my prejudices against gamer webcomics' readers, yes?
Why would the door code being Daikitana cause violence?
Just because it sucked in stereo doesn't mean.... *sigh*
I don't even know, some of those don't even have jokes.
Seriously, I'm not supposed to be posting this...
http://www.increator.pri.ee/i/pull/omfg.png
Quote from: InCreator on Tue 06/03/2007 01:50:21
Seriously, I'm not supposed to be posting this...
http://www.increator.pri.ee/i/pull/omfg.png
...oh my... :o
So wrong, but it fits so well!
Thanks for the...comments? (praise doesn't sound like the right word)
Anyway, as the couple of people who have started to read it would know, i've opened it up to a 4-panel strip.
Perhaps THIS will draw you from your high-horse.
Maybe.
Don't do it on Blogspot.
www.smackjeeves.com
It's designed for webcomics, and if you at least look at one other person's strip and post a comment once a week or so you'll have a ton of people visiting your site. Just make sure you're actually ready to do so.
I think you're doing a good job. You're being serious, and you really try.
I don't think the comics are funny yet, and this is basically because you haven't had time to refine them enough, or to grow enough personally.
Most very young people tend to create comedy more based on what they expect people to find funny, rather than things they sincerely find funny themselves.
This is extra blatant in your latest strip, which is about agreeing to shop with someone in exchange for sex, which is a situation I highly doubt you know anything about personally.
You're 14, write about your daily life, make comedy about kid-stuff, and don't pretend so much.
Fluke
I personally laughed with the latest two (the sex one, and the qucik reply one)... Especially the sex one, made a very convinsing connection with my life ;D so...
Yup!
and thanks for being persistant and keep on doing that. Don't stop!
I don't understand the sex one... And I'm almost twice your age (Fluke, not Nik). Could you kindly enlighten me?
PS: Been reading the Battle Royale manga, and just realized when I was checking out your latest comics I was reading them right-to-left. I still don't get the sex one...
Men hate shoping! I honestly do!
the only reason one would go to a shoping mall is for sex afterwards (the reward). At least this is what I thought of it ;)
:P Still don't get it.
And am I to believe that these guys are nothing more than little chubby weiners? The one where he first sees Radarette weems to indicate this. Although on my first readthrough, as I said a moment ago, it was from right to left, so he actually got shrinkage from seeing her.
dunno...
I personally found it funny. And I could relate! ;D
Additionally, I don't know if it's on purpose or not, but the "MALL" sign is not seen on the first two instantly, so the mind cannot make the connection straight away. But after you see the sign you know that "Hehe... that guy is forced to go in a mall, because he's been blackmailed..."
You're seeming to get better :)
You're getting better, but be careful you don't tread over trodden ground. Video game humor is a dime a dozen. Try your best to be original.
Er. Just tried making something in your style. Took me 30 minutes.
(http://www.ljplus.ru/img3/f/s/fsi/blip.gif)
That's not any funnier than Fluke's jokes, imo. Although seeing the yellow one skipping made me laugh!
It's funnier than my early ones, believe me.
p.s. No, I won't let you see :=
I got bored, and thought I'd jump on the bandwagon.
(http://www.lumpcity.co.uk/ags/stuff/flukecomic001.png)
The art and expressions there are just golden. Fluke, take notes.
I get defensive from time to time, but yes... Anyways... I'm posting in this thread... I love Fluke for some reason...
Shutdown: I love your comic. Not sure if, with no advice, or comments, it will help a 14 year old (with little experience that is, nothing to do with age really).
I doubt that fluke can make the art that you just did...
I'll try to analyse some things (in hopes that I get graphics myself...)
Fluke:
* Renal, changed the expressions and the bodies of the blips in every panel.
* he changed colour in the fonts
* he changed background cause he needed to add tention to that part
* he changed dynamics, by adding height and heavy expression to the left blip on panel 3.
* humour wise I'm not sure if it's not far off yours, and I had to think for a second in order to get it, but I do get it now... What could be a problem for me, is that in a 4 panel comic, arriving at the joke in panel 3, seems somewhat early to me. But I cannot be sure at all, as I lack the experience...
:)
Fluke, try not to copy paste anything. After all the art is really simple, and you shouldn't waste more than 5-10 minutes additionally, to draw new blips in every panel. It could be worth, if you can add mor eexpressions to them, more than you already have added.
Since Fluke has gone ahead and actually started a full comic and webspace for this I don't really see him as actively looking for feedback anymore. If you want actual feedback (and will listen to some of the criticisms) pm me and I will unlock this, Fluke.
Unlocked at Fluke's request, though I will be watching this thread to see if you pay attention to advice/criticisms, Fluke. So far you seem to be ignoring a good deal of both.
Nikolas, you're right on a few things.
I basically did that comic with very little effort, but I'll point out the key bits.
1. The bodies in every panel. Yes, they were all different. It might take you a bit longer, but it really is worth the effort of you doing each frame as a new picture, not just changing the speech bubbles for each frame.
This also refers to the art in general, you should try doing as much of it by hand as possible, so it doesn't look like someone using MSPaint for the very first time.
2. The expressions. Again, drawn seperately for each panel. It doesn't take much, but it makes all the difference. To support this, I entirely skipped the mouths of the characters, and (not to blow my own trumpet, or to offend you) still had more emotion than the ones you've done.
3. The backgrounds were different for each panel. One tip for drawing comics I've heard, is to treat the backgrounds with as much importance as your characters. Reusing the same scene over and over is just lazy, but changing it adds more depth to the comic strip.
4. Like Nik' said. Dynamics. The comic wasn't just a stardard rehash panel after panel. The more diverse you can make it, the better. New angles? Good. New poses? Good. Repetition? Bad, unless you know how to pull it off. At the moment, you don't, so I'd suggest making the thing more interesting.
5. Fonts. Sure, I used different colors. Mostly so people could see who was talking. I'm still not happy with the brown text, compared to the blue. I mainly did this, because I didn't like how the speech bubbles I was trying turned out.
The speech bubbles and text in your comics seems lazy, though. Arial for everything? I'd suggest getting some different fonts, and looking at other comics for inspiration. Unless you're doing very small comics, using Arial is just laziness. It looks good if it's pixel by pixel stuff, but in the style and size you're aiming for, it just looks amateurish.
6. Composition. There's nothing worse than bad composition. You could be a fantastic artist, but if you didn't spread things out, it'd look like a mess. This was the main reason people think my comic isn't the worst thing they've every seen. The art was nothing to write home about, in fact, I was aiming for Bad Art. The composition has saved it though. The gaps between panels. The wonky angles of the panels. The bothering to add space for the title, the credits and the copyright notice. It's just planning, and it's something I seriously suggest you take the time to think about. At the moment, your comics just look like a bunch of similar pictures put together on a page, without the least bit of thought.
Take a moment to walk around your house, you've no doubt got some pictures on the wall somewhere. They're not all bunched in one messy looking group, are they? Ask your parents why they've spread them out instead of putting them all together in a group. Look at magazines and comics and newspapers. Composition makes all the difference.
7. Humor.
This is a toughy. I'm not going to criticise your style too much, as you might genuinely find it hilarious. I went for the Limp Bizkit reference, because I was trying to imitate your humor. Here's the thought process I used:
- Come up with a Pop Culture reference, that is either clichéd or just plain dated.
- How do I make a reference without doing to much art and/or changing the characters too much?
- Add a hat. A red hat.
- Fred Durst was famous for having the red baseball cap on backwards.
Not that great a comedic feat I admit, but I wasn't going for a joke in the cartoon as much as I was style and composition.
Note:
Nikolas: "What could be a problem for me, is that in a 4 panel comic, arriving at the joke in panel 3, seems somewhat early to me."
Where's the joke in panel 3? I personally see the joke as panel 4, after the yellow blob flies off the handle, insulting the blue thing, everything is back to normal seconds later. Also referencing Fluke's style of "Random and clichéd pop culture reference each week". (Again, no offence, Fluke).
Like the folk have said before, make stuff you find funny personally. Not stuff you expect people to find funny, or imitating stuff that's already out there. The point of comics, like all art, is not to please the masses but for you to look at and think "I'm proud of that. I like it".
On to the main part of this post, again another quote from Nikolas:
"I doubt that fluke can make the art that you just did..."
This statement is total b*ll*cks. If you believe it Fluke, you're doing yourself an injustice. The comic I did was done with a combination of a mouse, an art program (PSP9, as I like having layers) and the repeated use of Ctrl-Z. Anyone can make that comic, all they need is to do is to put in the effort.
Sometime tomorrow, I'll post again, with a step by step on how I did that cartoon, just to explain just how simple it is to improve a piece. You just need to put some variety and effort into the art.
Personally, I dislike the style you've gone for. It seems messy, and in all honesty, the cut and pasting is just plain lazy. Most of the jokes you're making are either clichéd or too obscure to get without you explaining them (ie, the MGS and Pac Man strips, respectively). The Mac jokes are just plain lame, they've been around for years. Chances are, you've never really used a Mac enough to make a valid comment on it. It's like the Sonic vs. Mario situation from the early nineties.
That said, I'm not going to say you don't have potential. The erection comic actually made me chortle. It wasn't the whole comic, just the idea of him being aroused, and shown in that way. That was a clever idea, just poorly executed.
I also liked the jaw drop piece. (The one place where you were right to keep the same expression on the character). But, instead of "6 hours later" and "10 hours later", you could have showed the change in time by the use of the background. Instead of just plain green, you could have had the first panel as day time, then night time. Possibly even adding a 5 o'clock shadow to the character.
I hope I've come across as actually trying to help you with this post, even though most of it has been pretty negative criticism. Hopefully, you'll take some of it on board, as you've got the basis of good comic idea, and if you put the effort in, the chance to make it something worth reading. (The concept for the characters, tho not entirely original, is a pretty good one. The less realistic they are, the more you can concentrate on making them seem real, if you know what I mean).
Good Luck, etc.
Okay, how's this :
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/BW_p1.gif) (http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/BW_p2.gif)
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/BW_p3.gif) (http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/BW_p4.gif)
Cheers,
Fluke.
Renal: Amazing post! Great post! Great help! :)
Quote from: Renal Shutdown on Thu 08/03/2007 03:07:33
Note:
Nikolas: "What could be a problem for me, is that in a 4 panel comic, arriving at the joke in panel 3, seems somewhat early to me."
Where's the joke in panel 3? I personally see the joke as panel 4, after the yellow blob flies off the handle, insulting the blue thing, everything is back to normal seconds later. Also referencing Fluke's style of "Random and clichéd pop culture reference each week". (Again, no offence, Fluke).
I, personally, found much funnier the 3rd panel in your comic than the 4th. And I did state that I don't read THAT many webcomics to have experience, like you probably do. I foudn the joke, that in order to immitate limp bizkit, the yellow one started swearing and all that, and btw, telling the truth to the blue one. The back to normal 4th panel, came natural and as a closing panel, for me. I guess everyone to their taste...
QuoteOn to the main part of this post, again another quote from Nikolas:
"I doubt that fluke can make the art that you just did..."
This statement is total b*ll*cks. If you believe it Fluke, you're doing yourself an injustice. The comic I did was done with a combination of a mouse, an art program (PSP9, as I like having layers) and the repeated use of Ctrl-Z. Anyone can make that comic, all they need is to do is to put in the effort.
The main part of this post? I feel honoured. ;D
The idea of my post basically was that, although I liked your comic, a comic alone, to someone with little experience is kinda useless. So your post here today came as a great addition to your comic, and it's something to value. There is no reason to degrade or say anything bad, and while you may think that I'm "offending" somehow fluke, I'm simply not. I'm stating that the obvious difference in people (every person), might make it difficult to follow your comic and your good will intended help, by making yourself a comic, without the 2nd post.
"Fluke take notes...", is not helpful, as not everyone is as "insightful" as one would like them to be, and get everything from an example.
Your little effort could be great effort for someone else, that's the idea... :-/ I know what you meant, though, I really do...
Fluke: Hem...
In your last comic (don't know if you did it before or after Renals' post), but you didn't follow much of what he said... :-/ The BGs are the same, except for the cloud and the bird, which makes too little difference, the dyamics are still gone (although I do suspect an effort the first blue to be higher than the second, so kudos on that), and again 3,4 panels are the same... Expressions could be a little more exxagerated, I think. I'm not sure I understand the joke this time, sorry... :-/
When making a comic, you have a certain space to tell a joke in. Imagine now if I told you this:
There was a guy walking up the street. His names was Galgafrancham Q. McFootiefoots, and he was 3'6 and had a dog named Yoshitoki Koninobu. What's black and white and red all over? A newspaper.
Get it?
Of course I mean the singing in the first panel. Apart from making me trying to guess the song (is that "I am the walrus?") it serves absolutely no point. And, while the strip is still kind of funny, it's like you're just saying "Appleseed is a good movie." It is, actually, and although I had seen a bunch of the Hayao Miyazaki movies already this was the first anime I'd ever seen that I actually knew was anime. But that's not the point. There's no real joke, it's just kinda saying Appleseed is a good movie in a funny way.
I think you should bone up on your "FoxTrot." It seems that comic is similar in form and function, although not material, to what you're doing with Blip and Radar. You could learn alot about joke delivery and timing from FoxTrot. In fact, here's a little exercise for you: think up a joke you would like to tell in your next Blip and Radar, then select a completely random FoxTrot. Take note of how their joke is delivered, and then try to work your joke in to fit in the same frame sequence.
You're doing really good here, Fluke. Keep it up, but don't stop trying to get better.
I really liked the eyes in the 3rd and 4th panel. I didn't get the joke (probably because I don't know the movie) but those eyes really look like he has spent hours and hours on watching tv.
Right, here comes that tutorial type thing I mentioned..
Program used:
Paint Shop Pro 9 - I like working with layers.Ã, I can get around a lack of talent by taking my time and building up a picture piece by piece.
Tools used:
Paintbrush - 2x2 pixel.
Flood Fill/Paint Bucket.
Line tool - 2 pixel width.
Text tool.
Zoom tool.
Onwards, then..
Framing and layout.
You can do this in either at the very start, filling in the panels one by one to the preset pattern, or you could do this at the very end, cropping and positioning the seperate panels to fit.Ã, Either way, the important thing is that you actually do this at some point.
So far, Fluke, your comics have just looked a mess because you've put no thought into how they're going to be displayed.Ã, For this example, I'm drawing the panels first, as I wanted a set piece of 4 panels to work with.
(http://www.lumpcity.co.uk/ags/stuff/comic-tut001.png)
Note, I've left space at the top left for a title, and on the top/bottom right, so I can write various info that's not part of the comic itself.Ã, You don't have to go with the wonky angles, you don't have to make them thick black lines, but you DO need to spread your panels out in some way.
Next comes the outlines.Ã, I'm only using a mouse, as I've no idea if you have a graphics tablet.Ã, I'm not good at drawing with the mouse, I'm the first to admit that, and even these outlines took a while of trial and error until I was satisfied with their shapes.
(http://www.lumpcity.co.uk/ags/stuff/comic-tut002.png)
The yellow one in panel 2 still looks to DOTT-like for my liking, but I got sick of try to fix it.
Note at this point, using the mouse, I've zoomed in to draw them, I means my lines are much more accurate than if I was at 1x1.Ã, I'll come back to this point a little later, but for now, lets move on.
Shading.
Not all that a difficult section.Ã, In fact, in all honesty, it's the paint bucket tool/flood fill/etc.
(http://www.lumpcity.co.uk/ags/stuff/comic-tut003.png)
The technique isn't what matters, tho.Ã, Even at this stage, I was analysing the comic as a whole, trying to get a color palette for the two characters that complimented each other well, but were also not harsh colors, not too bright, not too dark, not too saturated, etc.
Whilst blue and yellow do compliment each other, the actual shades you've been using aren't easy on the eye.
(http://www.lumpcity.co.uk/ags/stuff/comic-tut004.png)
Above, I've filled in the details of the characters.Ã, I've kept them as simple as possible, to demonstrate the point.Ã, It's the expressions.Ã, Just the eyes.
There's nothing worse than an comic, that has slacked on the expressions.Ã, You don't even need text, if you do expressions right.Ã, The majority of your comics have been lacking emotion, and at some points looking devoid of life.Ã, If people don't get a sense of emotion from the character, then they won't enjoy the read very much.Ã, You describe it as a comic about "two anthropomorphic blobs".Ã, You've got to give them more life.
I can't teach how to draw expressions.Ã, It comes from practice.Ã, Buy a sketchbook and a pen, and doodle them whenever you have the chance.Ã, The more you practice, the better you get.
(http://www.lumpcity.co.uk/ags/stuff/comic-tut005.png)
I've removed the fills on the characters in the above stage, so I can explain the backgrounds a little easier.
Lets start with panels 1 and 4.Ã, I'd already used blue and yellow, so I didn't want the backgrounds to clash, so I picked a 3 shades of green for the bulk of the image.Ã, The darkest green outlines, to show the shape of the room, and then two very similar greens for the shading.Ã, There's only a very subtle difference shaded greens, but it helps to add a little depth.
I didn't want the ceilings to be plain white, as I wanted the comic to have a full color look, I picked a very pale blue.Ã, It needed to be a light color, as I'd already decided to have the text on the background itself, and not in speech bubbles.Ã, As for the floor, I picked a dark red, to give the panels a solid bottom, as well as to contrast the text at the tops.
Panel 4 specifically, has more of the carpet in view.Ã, This is for 2 reasons. Firstly, I didn't want it to be the same as the panel 1.Ã, Secondly, as I look at it, the solid base makes it feel like that panel is the concluding one.
Panel 2 has no carpet in, as I felt that the dark red would take the attention off of the key feature, that being the red hat.Ã, I wanted the backgrounds to draw the eyes into the main part of each panel, especially panel 3.Ã, Much like Mr Flibble's comic, the dynamic background adds to the mood of the panel.Ã, Unlike his, I wasn't aiming for excitement, so his method wouldn't be as appropriate, I found the spiral helped to draw peoples eyes into the expression of anger on the yellow character's face.
I went for green as it was the dominate color in the other backgrounds, and pink as I hadn't used it before.Ã, Red's the color for anger, so I think in retrospect, the pink was a pretty good choice.
(http://www.lumpcity.co.uk/ags/stuff/comic-tut006.png)
Lettering.Ã, Something you've been very lazy in so far, Fluke.Ã, Like I said, using Arial isn't a good idea for the size of the comic you draw.Ã, It would suit the size I've drawn, either, so I avoided it as best I could.
A quick visit to Blambot (http://www.blambot.com/) and I'd found myself a couple of free fonts designed for use in comics.Ã, The dialogue uses one called "Gorilla Milkshake".Ã, Now, was that so difficult?Ã, A little effort goes a long way in improving a piece.
I chose brown and blue for the text, as I wanted it to be obvious who was saying what.Ã, Not only that, I also considered the placement and alignment of the text, too.Ã, It's just a little touch that can improve the comic a lot.
As for panel 3, I didn't like how the brown was looking on top of the pink.Ã, I tried various colors and styles.Ã, I tried bolding the text. I tried enlarging the font.Ã, Anything that I could do to try and make it slightly better, I did.
So, after this, I was finally done with the various individual panels.Ã, It took me quite a while, even though I was keeping everything as simple as possible.Ã, I was aiming for the art to look pretty bad, mostly as I was trying to point out the importance of composition more than anything, but I've probably spent more time on the comic so far than you have on any of yours, Fluke.Ã, What's more, is the final piece is still unfinished..
(http://www.lumpcity.co.uk/ags/stuff/comic-tut007.png)
Here, I've filled in the space outside of the actual panels, to clean up the image, and to spread things out.Ã, I chose a mild gradient as it's another little flourish that detracts the reader from realising how sloppily drawn the art is, and makes it look like I've put a lot more effort in than I actually have.
(http://www.lumpcity.co.uk/ags/stuff/comic-tut008.png)
Using the text tool again, I've added some words on the right, and added a title to the piece.Ã, The font there is "Winter in Gotham", again from Blambot.Ã, 1 pixel outline, and a yellow-red gradient.Ã, Only a few moments to create, but gives a much more professional look to the comic.
Now, just a final crop to the image, to remove the empty block on the right, and..
Whiz..
Bang..
(http://www.lumpcity.co.uk/ags/stuff/flukecomic001.png)
A final comic, that was created with no real art skills or comedy, but still manages to dazzle the readers with a bunch of minor tweaks and tricks.
Style 1. Substance 0.
Since I've bothered to get this far, I might as well throw in some quick things you can hopefully use to scam your way through, on the art side of things..
The expressions.
(http://www.lumpcity.co.uk/ags/stuff/comic-tut009.png)
You can see quite clearly there's no real detail in there.Ã, It's just a 2x2 pixel brush.Ã, I zoomed in the image in larger than this to draw it, though.Ã, Probably twice that size.Ã, The larger the zoom, the more accurate I can be with the mouse.
(http://www.lumpcity.co.uk/ags/stuff/comic-tut010.png)
Notice how relatively smooth things look?Ã, It's pretty scruffily drawn, but the larger outline manages to mask that flaw.Ã, To explain this better, I've drawn two examples.Ã, Firstly, is the same random character using a 2x2 brush and then a 1x1 brush.
(http://www.lumpcity.co.uk/ags/stuff/comic-tut011.png)
Mr. Green has softened edges, and a nice feel to him.Ã, It doesn't matter than he's badly drawn, as mostly, the lack of talent is masked.
Mr. Red, on the other hand, has rough and jerky edges.Ã, His eye's are wrong.Ã, He's got double pixels.Ã, He's harsh and ugly looking.Ã, A close up show how badly he needs cleaning up, whilst Mr. Green is ready to use.
(http://www.lumpcity.co.uk/ags/stuff/comic-tut012.png)
In the second example, I've redrawn the blue thing from your Appleseed based comic, matching your style as best I could. I've then redrawn half in my style, to show you how big a difference a little effort makes.
(http://www.lumpcity.co.uk/ags/stuff/comic-tut101.png) (http://www.lumpcity.co.uk/ags/stuff/comic-tut102.png) (http://www.lumpcity.co.uk/ags/stuff/comic-tut103.png) (http://www.lumpcity.co.uk/ags/stuff/comic-tut104.png) (http://www.lumpcity.co.uk/ags/stuff/comic-tut105.png)
For the comic, I would have stopped on the 3rd picture, but I decided to add a bit of shading in the 4th, and then a five o'clock shadow in the 5th to show the passage of time.Ã, Not a whole lot of effort was needed, and the method is pretty simplistic.Ã, It shouldn't take you long to improve your art, as long as you can find a method you can master easily.
I'm not saying use my style, by all means find your own.Ã, Just find something, as recently you don't seem to be taking on any of the advice given by people.Ã, With the aid of a tutorial and some examples of how simple changes can make all the difference, I hope you realise it's not a such great leap you need to make to improve.
Good Luck, etc.
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/WID_p1.gif) (http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/WID_p2.gif)
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/WID_p3.gif) (http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/WID_p4.gif)
Things I've Changed :
-Various backgrounds
-Bigger outline size (this wasn't based on your post, just something i thought i should add)
-Tried to vary the emotion (haven't really gotten this right yet though)
-Changed speech bubble shape
-Changed font
Things I've Kept (and why):
-Panel Shape: I really wanted to keep the square panel. It just makes it look a little more sophisticated, and a lot of webcomics use it [Penny Arcade, VGCats (sort of), CAD].
-No "Dynamic" background : Don't worry, i've taken this advice and will use it, but i didn't feel this strip justified any particular anger/happiness etc.
And that's about it.
Cheers,
Flukezy.
You're making progress, but you might want to try and make the speech bubbles a clean, uniform shape. For example, in the 4th frame the speech bubble on the purple guy cuts into some of his text, which is distracting. You don't have to freehand everything, remember that. There are circle and line tools for a very good reason! Keep at it.
Whoah, getting better!
But really, computer game jokes are well... old. Joke about Duke Nukem Forever not coming out yet is SO overdone that it wouldn't hurt to not see/hear any until 2412AD and no-one's going to miss those.
Pick a theme, Fluke. And stick with it.
Or even better, pick a story and continue the story. Story-driven comics leave people waiting for what happens next and are a bit more popular, as fas as I have noticed. Of course, if the story's funny and you are able to have a joke for each event/strip in the story.
And it would be better if theme/story was original, to be interesting, and characters had er- characters, nature. Like, the purple demon thingy was always pessimistic and green one was always angry or whatever. Also, keep the font same! Everywhere.
Personally, I liked your first, noobish art style more. It was somewhat cuter. You can draw nicely, but drawing nice blobs won't make them less blobs. Then again, the cleaner part of new style is somewhat better also. You should take the best from two styles and combine them into one.
I am pleased to see you're taking the advice given to you!
I like the cleaner style!
Sadly, that is an old joke though.
Can I make a suggestion? When it comes to drawing their eyes, don't use the line tool, ever. Look again at Renal's strip. Those eyes are slanted, not utterly straight. This gives them more character. Your eyes look too computerised and don't fit in with the whole blobby theme.
Thought i'd post this before i put it up on the main site:
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/U_p1.gif) (http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/U_p2.gif)
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/U_p3.gif) (http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/U_p4.gif)
Yellow is so passeÃ, ;D
I don't get it.
EDIT: Oh, right. I like this one. ;D
RMAO!
Honestly!
I'm actually laughing right now!
Possible problems though (which need attending):
I know that you are doing exactly as we did advice you but in this case, the joke is relavent only to the people who've read the thread! It is a lovely joke, but still it applies to a very limited audience.
It shows that you handled the thread well, took in all advice, and turned it into a joke which is brilliant! It is a completly mature approach! Useful and everything. Applied knowledge, more or less! GREAT STUFF!
Still most people won't get it (Krysis didn't for example).
2nd panel works great, but probably did need straight lines... :-\
Other than that I'm really enthusiastic to what you're doing here! :)
Excellent! I love it! I'm laughing out loud!
Please hang on to such bloody marvellous phrases as "yellow and therefore hideous."
Gold, man!
I really am excited about this, I'm so glad you got it.
I did actually laugh there mate! And the characters look way more lively now!
The joke might be understood by those who have seen your previous efforts, as the art is so notice-ably(sp) different. I'd rephrase the first speech bubble though! Steer clear of overly used internet speech, for example.
"WOW! Look at the new design! Clean outlines! Real speech bubbles! And we've been drawn better!"
Something a bit like that.
I like where this is going though! Keep it up!
Renal Shutdown: That... is the best tutorial I've seen in a long time! A long time! Really damn helpful and clear! Very well done! :D
Flukeblake: Now THAT'S the way to do it! The latest one was actually pretty funny! And I must say that without the second frame where the yellow guy doesn't say anything, just looks happy, it would be 50% less funny. :P Brilliant! Keep at it!
Really good now. I think you just made a breakthrough.