C&C on this odd tune (Bass added)

Paper Carnival · Sun 25/12/2005 20:53:14

Hey people,

It is Christmas day and yet I'll be a pure geek and live it as any other day lived dedicated to the Holy Computer. Therefore, I decided to write a tune as a tribute. And behold, the link: http://www.geocities.com/crosshead777/demonocracy.mid

I know it's boring in the beginning, but I'm planning to extend the whole song and the boring part will just be the intro to it. There's no drums or bass yet, because I'm not good at doing that and I fear it is going to ruin the song. I might add them, in the future.

I think it's the best thing I've done so far (that doesn't say much though, heh). I plan to add lyrics too once I complete it (if it doesn't reach 5 minutes I won't be satisfied by its length).

Comments, critisism, suggestions? What I'm mostly looking for is some hints from the experts. Especially for the solos, what I created sounds like a fast melody and not really like a "metal" solo.

Btw, what genre of music is this? I have no idea

ManicMatt · Sun 25/12/2005 22:06:50

Well... there is a definetly a gothic vibe I'm getting.

It's composed very well... but... well....

Why use samples that sound so old? Is this one of those intentional midi or whatever computer songs? (the beginning isn't boring btw)

PyroMonkey · Sun 25/12/2005 22:12:11

It's a bit insubstantial. You should add in a background instrument or two.

Paper Carnival · Sun 25/12/2005 23:52:55

ManicMatt: This is a midi file, I can't really help it. I compose my tracks with Guitar Pro, which is a midi program (and the best program for guitarists). If I ever use better instruments, I'll have to compose this first as a midi and then change the instruments, but I'll never change the program I use because it makes composing so much easier

Edit: It also depends on your audio card, the midi samples are built-in into it. So, it sounds different on every computer.

PyroMonkey: Perhaps drums and bass will help after all. I'll work on that tomorrow

Al_Ninio · Sun 25/12/2005 23:56:33

Get Guitar Pro 5 then.
Has a better sound engine and is just awesome in general.

Paper Carnival · Sun 25/12/2005 23:59:01

~~I couldn't find a pirated version that allowed Real Sound support, the ones I found didn't include it~~
I'll try to get it somehow, but I heard it sounds bad anyway

Damien · Mon 26/12/2005 11:27:33

I agree with adding background instruments, but I would rather have a go with a string ensemble or something. Untill the song progresses to the point when you think bass and drums should be added.

As for GP5, it's ok for trash metal and it has a nice acoustic guitar engine, but the percussions are a real dissapointment. I was hoping to see (hear) a brush kit atleast.

Erenan · Tue 27/12/2005 06:30:14

I love MIDI. I don't think there's anything wrong with it, especially when you're just putting the notes down so that you have something until you can record it properly.

As for this piece, there's some really good stuff here, but here are a few thoughts to help iron it out... As some have said, I think there needs to be bass and drums. Especially bass here, because there's some weird stuff going on harmonically that might be corrected with the addition of the bottom end. A lot of this is second inversion chords where there ought to be root position chords (i.e. D/A where there should be D).

There's also some discrepancies between the solo guitar and the rhythm guitar in terms of harmony. For example, in measure 30, the lead guitar arpeggiates F# major, while the rhythm guitar suggests D major. This is particularly strange because of the clash between A and A#. If it was an A natural, then it would simply be DM7, which could be okay, although I would suggest changing the lead guitar to arpeggiate D7 instead (something like D-A-F#-D-A-F#-C-A-F#-D-C-A-F#-D-A-F#).

Again, in the third and fourth beats of measure 32, rhythm and lead guitars don't seem to agree. The third beat could make sense as F# half diminished, but the fourth beat just doesn't work for me. The lead guitar goes to GmM7, but the rhythm guitar remains F# dim (or D/F#, probably). In this spot, I suggest something like G/D followed by D leading into measure 33.

Another spot: Beat three of measure 33. Lead guitar suggests A minor, but the rhythm guitar remains a G. You might change it to an A.

Another: The harmonic progression in measure 36 could be stronger. When the lead guitar changes on beat three, the rhythm guitar doesn't change at all. Maybe change all the B flats in that beat to A naturals.

I don't mean to give the impression that this is a bad piece. I really like it so far. Keep going!

Paper Carnival · Sat 31/12/2005 11:55:18

I finally added drums, but they don't sound good..Ã,Â I tried to add bass or background synths with no success. If I put an extra instrument high then the notes with the other instruments will clash, if I put it low then there will be a lot of buzz. If this was an actual recording and not a midi, would the "emptiness" be removed?

Here's the new link www.geocities.com/crosshead777/demonocracy_2.mid

edit: I also tried to fix the harmony issues.

Erenan · Sun 01/01/2006 21:46:52

Harmony is much stronger now. Good work. And the drums aren't bad at all, in my opinion. They do help with the emptiness, but I still think you need bass. Honestly, with the style you've got here, I think it's okay simply to have the bass almost exactly double the lowest notes of the rhythm guitar part. Not exactly, but keep them similar.

Something like this, maybe: http://www.geocities.com/myrrwyn/demonocracy_2_edit.mid

I also removed the drums from measure 24. It didn't make sense to me to have everything else drop out but keep the drums. You can do what you like, of course.

Note measures 12 and 22. Here the guitar's lowest note is A, and the bass's is D. The harmony works better this way than if the bass had taken A also.

This really isn't a perfect example of an ideal bass part, but it should get you on the right track.

Paper Carnival · Mon 02/01/2006 22:56:00

www.geocities.com/crosshead777/demonocracy_with_bass.mid

There, I mostly went along with the lowest note of the chord except a few times.

I did try your midi, but it sounded weird - not in a bad way, it was just different. I suppose it's the midi program you used, it altered the way it sounds a bit (it's also a semitone lower, but it sounds different in GP even if I transpose it).

I think it sounds better now, I thank you so much for your help

. As a composer I'm still in training and my ear is not really good enough yet, so spotting harmony issues is not as easy for me.

Now that I got this better, I think I'm going to try to add more to the song (and I'll add lyrics too)