Character - Rocky - update1

[shbaz]

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v96/shbazjinkens/rocky_fin.jpg

I made him for practice and to use in a battle system I'm working on with Blender.. It's one of my friends with Cloud Strife influences. He has 1,004 tris, and carries a sword that ways in at 98 tris (edit: yes 98, not 998 ). A 256x256 pixel colormap supplies them with their rugged good looks. The Turtle is an untextured WIP that he will fight once I'm finished.

Any thoughts? I have a WIP thread and a finished work thread at elYsiun, but I was hoping someone here might be mean to me and tell me what's wrong with it (not that it's blocky, because that is something that must be done to be compatible with slower systems).

The two in the bottom right (front and back views) are viewing in "orthographic" mode, which means they appear proportionally accurate, while the others are in "perspective" mode, so they appear like a photo would, with depth perception. That is why they appear slightly different. It was made to look good in perspective mode because that's how game engines display, usually.

[ravenfusion]

Very nice work, I love how you used low poly and still, it looks good. Well done and very retro 3D like. The gloves sorta looks like paint but it looks alright.

The sword is an obvious Cloud Strife reference as well.

[Valzebnik]

Nice,but I think the sword is a little too big!!

[Archangel (aka SoupDragon)]

I don't think it's too big. Scottish claymores could be up to 6 foot in length, I think... don't quote me on that tho. Nice char overall; I think the colours need to be a bit brighter or more saturated, but that could just be my monitor.

[James Kay]

Not bad at all!

I don't know what poly-limits you face when using Blender (never used ut) but show us your mesh. Looks like you might be wasting some polys on the body that you could use in the face (the eyes look terribly flay).
You defenitely need to add more detail on the body part using textures. So show us your texture too. Difficult to tell you how to improve it if we can't see the mesh and texture.  

[Kweepa]

I hope that 998 was a typo - 98 polys for that sword makes more sense!

[Mats Berglinn]

Nice,but I think the sword is a little too big!!

Cloud from Final Fantasy VII also had a very big sword. Remember that he told that it was inspired from Cloud from FF VII?  

[Pessi]

Nice work. Seems like you can actually do something (a lot) with Blender.

I think you could make a significant improvement by adding more detail to the texture. Here's an example: http://www.joachimart.com/tutorial_char.htm . The character there has only 500 polys but the texture makes it look as if it was twice that.

You could also try dedicating more polygons on the joints and not that much on static and almost flat surfaces, such as the face. Try to customize the construction of every joint, not just by using extrusions. Extrusions often leave lots of unnecessary polygons. I think Counter-Strike models and such are good examples for simple but working joints. And for lots of other things as well.

By trimming the unnecessary polygons you might be able to make the legs rounder. Four faces (I hope I'm using the correct term, my vocabulary is obviously limited) is too little for legs as they are so visible. Well, considering the polygon limit.

Anyway, sorry for sounding like a know-it-all. I'm just presenting the stuff in a pretty straight-forward fashion.

Keep it up, I think you're on to something!

[MrColossal]

I'd like to suggest watching this:

http://www.fileplanet.com/dl.aspx?/planetquake/polycount/tutorials/video/paramilitary_punk_video.zip

it's 57 megs but it's amazing and the basic reason I want you to watch it is to get away from extruding out the body. This guy [and many other people] use cylinders instead of boxes and though he uses a different modelling program then you, his decisions can still be taken into consideration and applied to Blender.

I like the face modeling and as pessi says the texture could really push the face over the top. I know it's supposed to be FF inspired so maybe a lighter colour of skin could help

anyways, keep at it and i look forward to more

[shbaz]

New Texmap:


Wiremesh:


You probably notice the Texture map doesn't look a lot like the model - that's because I used vertex painting. It takes a vertex (a point between faces) and paints a cloudy splotch around it that mixes with the texture map. Thats how I did the dirt on the body and most of the face.

After looking at the model Pessi posted, I think I'm going to change the hands a lot. After looking at the face and thinking about it, I think I'm going to also learn to paint the face instead of relying on vertex paint shading, it looks like crap. Really needs detail. My wiremesh looks better than the textured model... probably because this is the first time I've tryed to UV texture anything.

For people who don't know a lot about 3d.. the texture map is the 2d image that gets wrapped around the mesh to give it color. Basically you take the 3d model, unwrap the faces, and flatten them out on a plane, then paint over it in a paint program (in this case, the Gimp). The hair was done by taking the 2d wire and blurring the lines a bit, and I did the same over the chest armor.

EDIT:


Painted in lips and erased most of the shading and redid it (only concerning the head). I think it looks more anime overall now.

I looked again and the tutorial Pessi posted, and I really can't get rid of any polys in my hands. The hands are meant to be bent, and must have joints in them for it to work.

I'm not going to redo the legs because I like them that way.

I didn't breach the poly count I was aiming for and I'm happy with the way it looks with the changes in the face, so it's sufficient for my needs now.

One day I'll paint in all of the details and shading for a more realistic look, this is practice for me because I've never done this sort of thing before. The poly-count is high for the amount of detail I've added, and it deserves a 1024x1024 texmap, but I lack the skills for that right now.

[James Kay]

I know 3D but not Blender (Maya/3DSMAX/SXI) so some thoughts:

Your texture isn't very efficient. Lots of free space there. Again, I don't know Blender so I don't know what UV layout tools it has or hasn't got. E.g., you can up the quality of the face by only creating half of it and mirroring it onto the other half. Theoretically it can be twice as "hi-res" that way.
Obviously the texture needs much more detail. I'd recommend not having the mouth, eyes and face seperate (unless the eyes are on a seperate object for moving around, which, by the look of your mesh, they aren't. If you have them all together you can add much more detail easily (eyebrows, lids, etc.)
Details like the thingy on his chest (medal? buckle?) can be done with the texture, which will save you on a few polys.
As for the legs, the are okay but might cause some bending problems. The only way to learn this is to create and try. You'll see what's the best way to poly the knees etc.
I'd say you can shave a few polys off the feet as well.

Sorry to sound harsh but your model looks far better untextured.  Texturing is an art in itself and it's not easy. So good luck. The only way to learn is to try, try and try again.
I'd suggest creating a hi-res, nicely-lit (if possible in Blender) front view render of the face as a guide for your face texture. That way shadows and details are already present. It'll still need a lot of paint work though.

And I don't think you need a higher res texture. In games a lot more has been done with a lot less (mostly due to memory concerns).

Hope some of this helps. Good luck with the model. It looks like a very good start, but you'll find the biggest task of doing 3D is the endless refinements.  

[shbaz]

Your texture isn't very efficient. Lots of free space there. Again, I don't know Blender so I don't know what UV layout tools it has or hasn't got. E.g., you can up the quality of the face by only creating half of it and mirroring it onto the other half. Theoretically it can be twice as "hi-res" that way.

My texture layout does suck.. I just made it as I went and some things (like the spiky things and the eyes) shouldn't even be seperate from the objects they appear on. This does need restructuring badly. Thanks for pointing this out. I know about the mirroring trick, but the idea when I made this model was that I'd practice texturing it in a low res, then later do it in a higher res. The face was made without mirroring because I wanted to put a tattoo on one side and scars when I made the higher res version. I haven't done the tattoo yet because at this point I haven't really decided what it should look like. You probably notice that there is only one shoe, glove, and leg, all of that was done for that reason. I would have mirrored the chest armor but it wasn't modelled with a split down the center, like I should have done, and I wouldn't be able to add dirt or damage if I did that.

Obviously the texture needs much more detail. I'd recommend not having the mouth, eyes and face seperate (unless the eyes are on a seperate object for moving around, which, by the look of your mesh, they aren't. If you have them all together you can add much more detail easily (eyebrows, lids, etc.)
Details like the thingy on his chest (medal? buckle?) can be done with the texture, which will save you on a few polys.

Things like this were done because of the way my future (this is a short test of what Blender can do with an RPG) project will work.. the jewels in the chest and sword will disappear depending on what armor/weapon the character has equipped. The eyes and pointy things on the shoulders really should be moved, thanks.

As for the legs, the are okay but might cause some bending problems. The only way to learn this is to create and try. You'll see what's the best way to poly the knees etc.
I'd say you can shave a few polys off the feet as well.

Yeah, the shoes suck. I shouldn't have extruded them in the way I did, and I'll change those. I don't really know what to think about the legs anymore, I guess I will deal with that when I put in the bones.

Sorry to sound harsh but your model looks far better untextured.  Texturing is an art in itself and it's not easy. So good luck. The only way to learn is to try, try and try again.

Haha, I totally agree. I actually said that, up ^there^ I think. I'm accustomed to texturing with procedurals, UV texturing is new to me. Thanks for your honesty.

I'd suggest creating a hi-res, nicely-lit (if possible in Blender) front view render of the face as a guide for your face texture. That way shadows and details are already present. It'll still need a lot of paint work though.

I didn't really think of that.. I could turn on smoothing and use the render, it would look very good that way. I think I'm going to try that right now.

And I don't think you need a higher res texture. In games a lot more has been done with a lot less (mostly due to memory concerns).

I do though for what I'm going to learn to do in the future, I'm just sharpening my skills in gimp and testing out ways to work with the game engine right now, something like this is going to be my future template (without the whiskers, this guy is a Cherokee native). I'll have up to three characters on screen and up to five enemies, and allowing 20k tri memory shouldn't be a concern for computers with 1ghz of processing power (by the time I'm done with this 1ghz will be what 3-500mhz is now in terms of obsoletness). I may go for 512x512 instead, but for now I don't really plan to use only 256x256 for the whole game unless it's an enemy character and not very big.

Hope some of this helps. Good luck with the model. It looks like a very good start, but you'll find the biggest task of doing 3D is the endless refinements.  

Dude, it does help a lot. I'm only making excuses for this one because my skills aren't really up to task for making this perfect right now, with as few poly's as possible and everything. I'll keep your tips in mind as I gradually improve and start to make better models. It really helps a lot to read this stuff to know what people think. You should read the elYsiun threads I have, it's sad there how great people think I did when I'm really at borderline mediocrity.

One more change I need to make on top of those is to lighten those lips so he doesn't look like a goth... And the eyebrows.

[MrColossal]

to hand out another link:

http://www.planetquake.com/polycount/resources/general/video_tutorials/video-tut-list.shtml

a nice collection of video tutorials that i recommend...

you didn't respond to my post so i don't know if you didn't see it or you don't care or you don't have a fileplanet ID but it's free and i think it's worth it, seeing a video of someone else making a model gives you a lot of ideas and a lot of forehead slapping "DUH!!" moments.

http://www.bobotheseal.com/tuts_vertex_bake01.htm  this is kinda what James Kay is talking about, setting up lights and then baking them into a texture map that you then edit... I don't know if Blender can do this but what James Kay suggested would work well enough also, especially if you can set up different coloured lights

eric

[shbaz]

to hand out another link:

http://www.planetquake.com/polycount/resources/general/video_tutorials/video-tut-list.shtml

a nice collection of video tutorials that i recommend...

you didn't respond to my post so i don't know if you didn't see it or you don't care or you don't have a fileplanet ID but it's free and i think it's worth it, seeing a video of someone else making a model gives you a lot of ideas and a lot of forehead slapping "DUH!!" moments.

http://www.bobotheseal.com/tuts_vertex_bake01.htm  this is kinda what James Kay is talking about, setting up lights and then baking them into a texture map that you then edit... I don't know if Blender can do this but what James Kay suggested would work well enough also, especially if you can set up different coloured lights

eric

Blender doesn't have texture baking, it would rule if it did because I can texture procedurals pretty well. There's a small team of programmers working on it, but the Blender team in general seems to care more about programming options that will help with rendering animations and high-quality stills than game models. I saw your link but I didn't have an ID and I have a slew of tutorials that I've found at 3d forums anyway, but I'll check it out. I didn't realize planet quake had a video-tut section, I've read tons of the html tutorials there.

[MrColossal]

again it comes down to reading a static tut and seeing a model take shape before your eyes... it's amazing first off to watch someone work and secondly i'm sure we've all been reading a tutorial and the person goes:

"Ok, step 1, create a sphere... step 2 make it look like an awesome face with long flowing hair, and now you're done! Hooray!"

at least now you get to see that awesome face take shape

also, there are texture painting videos that are pretty cool to watch

but yea, Fileplanet IDs are free so now you have no reason! [unless you don't have a good connection then downloading 57 megabytes in one go [FP doesn't support file resuming yes?] might be a very good reason not to download them!

i should try blender some day

[James Kay]

Dude, it does help a lot. I'm only making excuses for this one because my skills aren't really up to task for making this perfect right now, with as few poly's as possible and everything. I'll keep your tips in mind as I gradually improve and start to make better models. It really helps a lot to read this stuff to know what people think. You should read the elYsiun threads I have, it's sad there how great people think I did when I'm really at borderline mediocrity.

Don't put yourself down, man. 3D is difficult. Forget those billion-poly naff Poser models, once you start delaing with real-time 3D it's a terrible headache. All the problems you'll face are technical rather than creative, which can become a grind.

I should also check out Blender, I know nothing of it. Once you're used to Maya I guess it's all a dissapointment.   BTW, there used to be (still is?) a learning version of Maya available for free, which is great for teaching yourself modelling (though all rendered images will be watermarked).

But good luck. Keep us up to date with future versions!