I will made a platform game after i complete my current (and that could be a long time :) ). So I made a soldier with gun, here are two posese + fireing animation.
Any suggestions !?
(http://freeweb.siol.net/zagar413/KZ/s1colored.png)(http://freeweb.siol.net/zagar413/KZ/s1rifleup.png)(http://freeweb.siol.net/zagar413/KZ/fireing.gif)
2x
(http://freeweb.siol.net/zagar413/KZ/s1colored.png)
(http://freeweb.siol.net/zagar413/KZ/s1rifleup.png)
(http://freeweb.siol.net/zagar413/KZ/fireing.gif)
EDIT 1 (picture added):
(http://freeweb.siol.net/zagar413/KZ/solf.png)
2x
(http://freeweb.siol.net/zagar413/KZ/solf.png)
wow, they look great.
just one suggestion: Why not change the position of his feet while shooting a little bit - bend his knee and so on.
Its looking very nice Sektor, but I woudnt expect less from an artist like you, tho.. i have to say, the shooting animation isnt good, like King already mentioned, the feet have to be different then the first pose, then again, if someone's about to shoot, he will be very alert and sharp, so he will actually stand much more in an action-position, why dont trie to let em kneel down on one knee and shooting, or if you want him to shoot standing, change the pose in a something more sharp position.
Then another detail, the head doesn't seem to give one kick when shooting such a heavy machine like that, why dont you make em blink his eyes while shooting, and have his head notched a bit back when shooting, he cant just keep his head still, thats impossible.
Thanks for the info, i will add some more body movement while shooting (head, maybe even torso), a little lower pose will be nice addition too, also i will make two aditional different shooting posese, first will be in crouch possition and second standing and aiming about 45 degrees up. As the 3d-platform shooters should have :D.
I was thinking of adding extra "dark" color to his closer arm, as it blends too much with his body !??
looks cool, very FOA. My only crit would be it appears he's leaning his head back, where id imagine his head would be dead straight?
ok, i added a new picture
What is new:
First (normal standing) pic is a bit fixed (mostly front arm)
I have added second stand pose with a bit more action position (is it enough ?? maybe looks kind a strange !?) added third pose where soldier is aiming on the celling and last, on his knees.
Remember: If I am going to be an ass in this thread, is because I feel the quality of the future game by Sektor 13 DESERVES it. ;)
The position of a soldier walking in commando style is totally different. I can't locate examples, but soldiers walk with the knees together, so, they avoid having higher and lower points (In this way they can aim better), and they are shorter, offering less mass to the possible enemy. I know it goes about all the walkcycle theories we have learnt, and might even look a bit stupid, they look like penguins, but this is the way. I am making an attempt to show it. Wait some mins, please.
I like these, simple and realistic.
But, he looks somewhat like a lazy shooter to me. Like he's not a dedicated fighter but a drunkard trying to hit a duck.
I suggest - in shooting stances, to bend his body a it more forward, eye closer to the gun, like he's really trying to snipe and actually hit something... you know, warfare makes people nervous, and not that relaxed. That should be visible in his stance too. Also, pull his one foot to more back, more supporting position - so it would seem like he's trying to fight the recoil.
Currently, if the recoil was strong enough, he'd instantly fall onto his back.
http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2003/graficos/abr/s1/urbana.html
I got it... No matter if you don't understand spanish, click in "comenzar". See the graphics.
All I understood from the pictures was that the stance has to be comfortable to keep your head low, and crouch or jump immediately when needed.
That's not standing up straight like sektor's solider, but keeping knees bent and head low.
Well, sounds logical...
Sorry sektor, your solider has just taken a bullet from sniper :D
Stance from last strip, frame 3 looks most practical to me. If head would be shifted forward a pixel or two.
I am working in an update with the "correct" walkcycle. As said, frame 3 is quite close, though...
Sorry for the double post, but I wanted this post to come back to the first place of CL, because I have an update.
Look at this ultra-quick example to see what I mean. The only finished part is the torso, I need a lot of work in the legs, I will change the perspective and one f the "contact", specially... but I think it's quite explanative. For me, he looks more commnado.
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a214/La_Lore/Critics%20Lounge/SektorsSoldier.gif)
Edit: Now I see it, and maybe the typical two pixels up and down movement is too much, but one would look terrific.
(http://www.increator.pri.ee/i/critshelp/gi.gif)
Single shot animation, 4 frames, I left feet unchanged (except that I moved right foot a pixel back)
Doesn't work so well for a burst or automatic fire, though.
But then again... no solider keeps gun near head when autofiring (I suppose it's kept at torso/stomach level).
I am more pleased with my torso... It's mine, of course, why shouldn't I be less pleased? ::)
I give permission to use it if Sektor allows.
What the hell? I ask to do all the sprites if necessary... ;D
Hey thanks guys. I was looking for good pictures of body posture and movement.
Well the game will be "shoot em" platform, when this guy will infiltrate some base and start shooting things, so i think there will be much action, still i am planing to make some extra "adventure effects" like object using and stuff, so should i made character always walking in "action/prepared" motion or should be there involved casual , relaxed walking, i don't want to draw two different walk styles, maybe i should take something in between ?
Thanks for the offer Farlander althou I like to do draw my own graphics (i hope you are not insulted), actually the thing is that i always like to draw the final graphics myself, don't know why.
But i will surely use your advices (any anybody elses) to improve my graphics.
And this game is very very far away.
Actually I don't know if i will be even able to make platform game with AGS, as i am not that good in coding, I tried some time ago to create "platform game" in AGS and faild :). I will see.
Here's an edit focused more on the coloring and shadowing:
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/DrunkyDuck/Help/s1colored.png)
1. Original sprite
2. Drawn out the palette, some colors already changed from the original version, chose the lightsource to be above the soldier and shaded accordingly, red x represents to color removed in this step
3. More color tweaks, blue lines point to the colors that were merged into one because of their simmilar values
4. Some face tweaks, goggles removed since there is a pair on the helmet, white color removed in this step
5. More color merging and some minor shading and contrast changes
6. Final paintover and it's palette - 9 colors total + transparency
Hope this helps.
I think it would look better if the fire was more rapid, and the muzzle flash affected the lighting of the character. My edits not great as I put shadow in as well and it turned out to not be so effective, but it gets the point across.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/sergiocornaga/fireing.gif)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a214/La_Lore/Critics%20Lounge/Commando.gif)
New version... As you can see, I am just "marking" how the animation should look. I think it's quite cool, and IMHO looks quite commandoish. This could be used for indoor levels or something.
Based on my military training I should be able to give you some tips.
(http://freeweb.siol.net/zagar413/KZ/solf.png)
The first one looks okay, nothing wrong with that.
In the second one you could move the rifle a bit more to the right, at the moment the end of the rifle (the one that's against the shoulder) looks like it's not even touching his shoulder, but his arm instead. That's a no-no. Also, if he is supposed to be aiming, move his head down. When you aim, you tilt your head towards the rifle and lift your shoulder a bit so that your head is almost leaning to it. At least according to my technique.
Same things apply to the third one. You might be going for a cautious look in this one, but we were taught that when shooting whilst standing, your legs must stay straight.
The things mentioned above apply to the fourth one.
And to the fifth too. Also, that pose is too high when shooting from your knees. His ass should touch his right foot (basically, he should be sitting on his right foot), and his left elbow should be resting on his left knee.
Quote from: InCreator on Sun 30/04/2006 21:23:23
But then again... no solider keeps gun near head when autofiring (I suppose it's kept at torso/stomach level).
Haha, you try and hit your enemy Rambo-style, ie. burst mode and gun at stomach level. :P
thanks guys:
SergioCornaga: Your shooting anim is very nice, i must you something similliar.
Farlander: Nice tactical aproach, if i will make more tactical game, this frames will be took under consideration
Petteri:
So soldiers are "shooting" with straight standing pose. But SWAT or SEALs are a bit crouched isn't that right ? So which tehnique applays for different situations !?
Thanks i will try to change few things.
edit:
Hmm, or i could made soldier to shoot slower when standing, and faster when crouching
Quote from: Damien on Sun 30/04/2006 22:30:48
Here's an edit focused more on the coloring and shadowing:
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/DrunkyDuck/Help/s1colored.png)
1. Original sprite
2. Drawn out the palette, some colors already changed from the original version, chose the lightsource to be above the soldier and shaded accordingly, red x represents to color removed in this step
3. More color tweaks, blue lines point to the colors that were merged into one because of their simmilar values
4. Some face tweaks, goggles removed since there is a pair on the helmet, white color removed in this step
5. More color merging and some minor shading and contrast changes
6. Final paintover and it's palette - 9 colors total + transparency
Hope this helps.
Hey thanks for the work you've done, still i made character simple for animations reason, it is much easier to animate simple characte, althou yours looks more real, with better effect of cothing..
The thing with legs straightened is that the pose is sturdier that way and aiming is easier. I don't know how it is in SWAT or SEAL, they might have different techniques.
When we had combat practices I don't remember ever shooting whilst standing, though. I was always ducking behind rocks or other stuff, or lying on my stomach. Much less chance to get hit that way. The only times I shot whilst standing was at shooting gallery.
But I understand you need the standing pose for your game. I guess in real situations you'd just do what you can without thinking about getting the exactly correct pose you were taught. So do what you feel suits your game the best.
here are a bit fixed poses.
I have lowered the head in aiming frames, changed "on knee" frame, and som aother small changes
(http://freeweb.siol.net/zagar413/KZ/sold2.png)
As Petteri was saying, the cheek would likely rest very solidly on the stock of the rifle. It would also be affected by the recoil - partially from slight flinch and partially having the cheek kicked away from the stock. There'd probably be less cheek contact (if any) if it's rapid fire, since it's impractical to keep jamming your cheekbone against a hard moving object.
The kick you've got seems about right for the rifle (is M4 another designation of M16?), maybe a bit too much, but that's probably needed for an animation exaggeration. Keep in mind that the standing position will be affected by kick far more than kneeling (as well as incorporating a little sway). Keep the positions' purposes in mind for stances: Standing's for a quick shot, and avoided for accurate shooting if possible, legs are straight but not locked in order to provide the least sway and bounce. Kneeling is a tripod position with one foot, one knee and one ass-to-ankle (or closest as possible).
Well, there will not be a need for sharpshooting, so i thik head is close enough, a lot of rapid fire will be involved too :) .
But good notice about the recoil in standing and crouching position, i could use it.
M4 is made for special forces and closer combats(it is a bit shorter) than M16 which is for regulary army, as far as i know. As the game will be inside a structure i have choosen M4, well it doesn't even matter i guess :).
edit:
3 "stand" fire anims:
(http://freeweb.siol.net/zagar413/KZ/fire%201.gif)
(http://freeweb.siol.net/zagar413/KZ/fire%202.gif)
(http://freeweb.siol.net/zagar413/KZ/fire%203.gif)
I was inspired by previous anims (from Increator and Sergio...) i didn't use much head moving as Increator did thou, could change in the future..
So which of those three anims is best !??
I was thinking, maybe he should fire slower when standing than crouching (And I wrote my last thought an hour before, but i guess post wasn't saved properly !?? or i posted elswere :)).
I think the scond animation of the three is best. A soldier should know how to shoot an M4, and the animation looks like he knows how to shoot it.
Here is an reload anim:
(http://freeweb.siol.net/zagar413/KZ/loading.gif)
edit:
whole action:
(http://freeweb.siol.net/zagar413/KZ/fullmetal.gif)
Man this is starting to look really nice!
Keep it up Sektor13
thanks :)
I have added a new anim two posts up.. whole action
Impressive anims, Sektor!
But muzzle flash that gun generates is bigger than yours.
http://www.gunsmokeenterprises.net/muzzle%20flash.jpg
That's M4, some modification atleast.
Or simply google images for "muzzle flash" - even handguns seem to generate larger flash (about a size of a human head), I guess M4 generates even larger due stronger ammo... of course, the flash is very quick, and realistic doesn't mean the best if it comes to low-res sprites.
Inc: Not necessarily!
Larger guns do not neccesarily mean more "fire", since they have longer "guns" (don't knwo the word), which takes away most of the fire. I think that Sectors is pretty accurate in that perspecitve. And very good in generall. :)
Well done mate!
I couldn't've done better myself!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA (<-sarcasm about how bad I suck at grahpics and animation)
Thanks :)
Well, those muzzle flashes are very strange thingys. I heard that in reality they are not visible. Like if you shoot with real Glock or even m16 (i think) you can't see any muzzle fs.
Tottaly opposite are "movies". You can see very large ones ther, althou they are incorrect.
I must say, that I never fired a gun, so i cannot be 100% sure, maybe Petteri would know, if he is in army. ???
Well, the muzzle flashes are easy to fix :)
edit:
I am looking some data about m16 and m4, looks like my rifle is closer to m16 (in length), so it is officialy M16 rom now on :)
QuoteLarger guns do not neccesarily mean more "fire", since they have longer "guns"
I'm no expert neither. Most handguns use 9mm ammo. It's 19mm long. M16 uses 5.56mm NATO ammo. And this is 39mm long. Now, how to calculate volume for a cylinder...? Well, my calculations tell that yes, 9mm bullets should have more gunpowder?
And gunpowder is what flashes, right?
Eh, but in movies and games, M16 generates a star- or x-shaped muzzle flash (if viewed from front, not side), and it's brighter and bigger than the one pistols make (which is almond-shaped from side and round from front).
It's still mystery for me.
Well, muzzle flash could be visible in automatic fire, but hardly seen from single shot. For a game sprite, I suggest still using some flash.
The second animation of the three is the best, backed up by the fact that you chose to use that one in the full animation. Do you think it matters that the rate of fire is different for the two stances? Because the animations look very good so I'd say speed is the only thing that should be changed now, if neccesary.
EDIT: One thing, I've noticed. I think both arms should move back in the crouching stance.
Slowmotion gunfire:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8309414592630275524&q=slow+motion&pl=true
Quote from: SergioCornaga on Tue 02/05/2006 06:06:16
The second animation of the three is the best, backed up by the fact that you chose to use that one in the full animation. Do you think it matters that the rate of fire is different for the two stances? Because the animations look very good so I'd say speed is the only thing that should be changed now, if neccesary.
EDIT: One thing, I've noticed. I think both arms should move back in the crouching stance.
I want to shoot a bit slower while standing, as it was said before, you can fell more recoil while standing and a bit faster when crouching.
Let say that the soldier uses single fire mode when standing and fully auto while on crouch, for accuracy reasons, i think this would give a nice addition for player to think how to shoot if something will aproach him very fast.
I saw Glock fireing from that movie, muzzle flash is very very brief (is this the right word for short !?), even when slowed down, you can hardly see it. I guess that why it is "invisible" in "normal" speed.
sorry for double post :( grrrrrr
Well its all good IMO I like the way it is.
And "throw grenade" anim:
(http://freeweb.siol.net/zagar413/KZ/grenadet.gif)
It might be nice to include a bit more secondary animation to make it more dynamic. Guns tend to drift upwards because of the kick when shots are fired in quick succession. You may mant to add a few spent cartridges ejecting from the gun.
It's a unlikely that a trained soldier would fire a shouldered weapon (far range) from a standing position. If his target is distant, he'd generally crouch or lie down for increased accuracy. When firing at close range with an automatic weapon, he would keep it at about waist level (or chest for medium range).
For a platform sprite, the colors are far too subdued. It's crucial that the character is visible against a background, since this can mean the difference between winning and losing the game. I'd suggest putting him against the background tiles before you get too far into his animation. Also, look at other arcade style games like:
Alien vs. Predator: http://www.rom-world.com/viewscreenshots.php?id=130
Metal Slug: http://www.mobygames.com/game/metal-slug-super-vehicle-001/screenshots
Cadillacs and Dinosaurs: http://images.webmagic.com/klov.com/screens/C/xCadillacs_And_Dinosaurs.png
http://images.webmagic.com/klov.com/screens/C/wCadillacs_And_Dinosaurs.png
http://digilander.libero.it/calimerosegg/gallery/callus/dino.gif
http://www.aitpast.com/games/dino/dino04.png
Notice the colors they picked and the sprite to background contrast. Hope this helps.
thanks, Metal Slug looks amazing .huhuh.
Well, the problem is, as i dont know what the background will be like, i have crude definition but still,
If i use more colors, to shade better, would be more noticable , but harder to make nice animation.
I will experiment a bit :D
Who said anything abotu more colors? The games I listed use 16 colors or fewer per sprite.
I don't see much point in "throw grenade" animation, since the grenade should be separate object in game, if you want to do it easy way. Also, hand should move a bit faster...
He might throw it overhand, too. I wouldn't want a grenade exploding near me if I'm throwing it.
Quote from: InCreator on Tue 02/05/2006 17:37:00
I don't see much point in "throw grenade" animation, since the grenade should be separate object in game, if you want to do it easy way. Also, hand should move a bit faster...
I don't agree with that. Grenade is last resort when you get attacked by many enemies, so it must be fast and deadly, so quick throw is better.
(http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/grenade/hand/throwing.gif)
http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/grenade/use.html
Sorry, I couldn't find anything better.
See how the soldier does a 90 degrees turn before and hides from explosion after a throw.
He's gotta bite off the pin first!
Quote from: Skurwy on Tue 02/05/2006 23:38:17
(http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/grenade/hand/throwing.gif)
http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/grenade/use.html
Sorry, I couldn't find anything better.
See how the soldier does a 90 degrees turn before and hides from explosion after a throw.
Hey thanks, i will try to make such throw.
Guessing from his name I think I was in the same army as Petteri, but I was in kind of special troops. Maybe something similar to marines but maybe coast soldiers would describe them.
We used quite heavy bullet/fragmentation west but it only had protection in front and back. The sides usually don't have anything so we were taught to shoot chest facing the enemy, with both legs next to each other, so that "the armor" would give protection - not the usual way sideways with one leg in front and one behind. If you are shooting like this you have to be bent quite a bit forward and knees bent. This could be the reason of SWAT and SEAL shooting style.
Personally I haven't heard of "knees together" style (it looks a bit strange to me). We used something called "duck walk", legs wide, short steps, bent a bit forward, ready to take recoil.
as Petteri already said we almost never shoot standing - if we are outside - just the first quick shot, next you are already lying. Of course it's different if you are raiding a house. And then you don't have to keep your head down to aim.
As for the sprites Farlanders version with soldiers back bent to take the recoil was the best, although the soldier looks a bit like he is going to fall backwards. Many of the other sprites still have back too straight, in my opinion Farlanders version looks more military professional.
One more thing, you don't use grenades as last resort - you would probably be dead before the enemy is even at throwing range, or would kill yourself by throwing underhand style next to your feet.
You seem to post as 'we', not they. That means you were(or still are) in the army?