Dawn of the Daleks backgrounds.

Cirius · Mon 11/06/2007 13:56:26

Howdy folks!

This backdrop has been irritating me for some time, so I thought I'd throw it out to the community to see what can be done.

The main issue for me as it stands is the foreground ridge where the action takes place. It seems to be blending into the background, making the entire scene seem a little flat. The spaceship should be in a valley beyond the ridge, whereas it currently looks like a small model perched on a mound.

And I admit now, this is my first game, and my artistic talents aren't perfect. The rocks in the foreground have been 'borrowed' from FoA.

This is the main control room, and the turning point for much of the action throughout the game. Once again, it looks a little flat for my liking. Any ideas?

Feel free to criticise, edit, replace, berate, threaten, chastise, or a combination of the above. But please, no-one suggest using colour. It's monochrome for a reason.

Bohnito · Mon 11/06/2007 14:10:33

Wonderful idea. B/W yeah. It looks great
but i dont really like the gradients on the rocket and the hills on the left and right seems to be a bit faded and doesn't fit to the foreground.
The same in the 2nd pic (wall, floor etc.)

And, You could make the contours lighter in the backround,
and darker on the foreground

SinSin · Mon 11/06/2007 14:36:34

right o i had a Quick go at this and what i did was

Add some shading to the rocket base
Blur the lower level
Sharpened the higher ridge
Give the upper section some more shading

Please note I am not great at working in B/W but I thought id give it a go

The bottom picture needs a set light source as the left table, the two pillars and the room in general have different sources. Stick to one source but if you decide to have more make them apparent Nice BGs so far keep up the good work

Cirius · Mon 11/06/2007 14:55:29

Christ, that was quick!
How on earth did I forget to give the rocket a shadow? I knew it looked odd...

Sharpening the foreground definitely seems to have done the trick on the landscape, but I think I still have a fair way to go in touching up the back half of the scene. Bohnito, if you could be a little more specific about the rocket shading, it would help me a lot.

I see your point on the second picture. The light sources in the scene are those two orbs above the central console. I should probably make them a little brighter. Bah, shadows again, the bane of my life.

Bohnito · Mon 11/06/2007 15:31:55

Its not nice and I'm not good at dithering, but

for my taste you use to much colors in just a single rocket.

Edit: size image 2x

Why can't we do it like on pixel-arts.org?
If you click an image there, its getting bigger/smaller automaticly

Cirius · Mon 11/06/2007 15:33:52

Oooh, that's much better. Thanks a bunch.

Forgive me, but I'm amused by the statement "you use too much colors in just a single rocket," in a black and white picture.

Bohnito · Mon 11/06/2007 15:34:53

oh, for sure. you use to much B/W differences or sth

SinSin · Mon 11/06/2007 15:41:23

The second pic is nice like i said but the shading is wrong
Looking at it you clearly know what vanishing points are,
Think of the lights as kinds of vanishing points shade the things closer to the lights brighter than the things further away. but also watch for direction the lower left table is the opposite of what you have said (unless there is a light on the wall)
Try to avoid using gradient tools as they can mess the drawing up and make it seem like your hard work is very amateurish
Experiment with a torch in your Loft or cellar if not then take a look around your room when the light is on at night time notice where the shadows fall and try and think Why. Once you have the knowledge subject it to the power.
How I dint seem Patronising i dont mean to be I just cant explain myself very well LOL

cobra79 · Mon 11/06/2007 15:48:37

I think the perspective is wrong in the first pic. If the ship is supposed to be in a valley you should significantly lower the horizon and either do not show the ship completely but the upper half or make it smaller.

A sloppy Photoshop edit.

ildu · Mon 11/06/2007 15:50:35

Pic 1:
Yup, it does look flat. It almost looks like a studio set of a 50's sci-fi B-movie. First of all, make the center of the ridge go higher. Right now it's making an arc, which doesn't help to distinguish it from the background. Secondly, Darken the ridge and lighten the background. Things farther from the camera are generally seen as lighter and less saturated. If you drastically lighten everything except the ridge and... the ship...

*At this point of writing this post, I noticed that the ship wasn't supposed to be hovering off the ground, but rather standing in the middleground area

.

Well, it doesn't really change much. Darken the ridge foreground, lighten the middleground a bit, and lighten the hills in the background a lot. You could also try adding clouds of fog to distinguish different parts of the image.

Pic 2:
It's quite difficult to understand what exactly that is. If it's supposed to be from inside of the ship, the rectangular shape of the room is definately making it look flat. I also don't know what those things are on the foreground. Are those things in the room tables?

Bohnito · Mon 11/06/2007 15:54:30

Quote from: cobra79 on Mon 11/06/2007 15:48:37
I think the perspective is wrong in the first pic. If the ship is supposed to be in a valley you should significantly lower the horizon and either do not show the ship completely but the upper half or make it smaller.

A sloppy Photoshop edit.

I think it makes no different where the camera stands but the edit would be good for a tracking shot

Cirius · Mon 11/06/2007 16:12:00

Regarding picture 1:
If this looks like a 1950's B movie, then I'm a decade off, as it's based on a 1960's series.

Regarding picture 2:

The room itself is buried deep in a mountain, and rectangular in shape, so it being flat isn't a problem.

The thing on the left is a table. It's a 'futuristic' table, which means it has an awkward shape to try and reproduce. Looking at it now, there's a lot I could do there with highlights and shadow.

The thing on the right however is a big circular hatch on a large base, large enough to admit a person to the level below. I think I've made a big mistake giving it a flat base, as it seems to make the whole thing appear 2 dimensional.

cobra79 · Mon 11/06/2007 16:38:09

I don't think this is just a matter of the camera position. The foreground is leveled so I should not be able to see the bottom of the valley and only the tip of the spaceship if at all. I lowered the horizon a bit too much though, but that does not change my impression that the perspective in the first picture is not correct.

Bohnito · Mon 11/06/2007 16:58:38

maybe the perspective of the character is importend(?)

Edit: but it doesn't fit with the rocket....hm $:-\$

ildu · Mon 11/06/2007 17:52:01

You really don't have to think about perspective in a scene like this. It's so organic, that height differences don't really matter. Well, it does kinda depend on what you want. If you want the camera to be on top of one of the platforms (and the platforms are assumed to be about the same height), then cobra's edit is very good. The edit also emphasizes the depth, so that's another good thing. However, I don't see anything particularly wrong with the perspective of the original, if you don't care about the platforms being the same height.

Cirius · Mon 11/06/2007 19:13:48

I think the main issue here is the position of the rocket itself. It's sat on top of a mesa-like platform in the valley, which is bringing it up to an altitude almost level with that of the foreground ridge. This, I think, is what's causing all the problems with perspective. I think I can probably solve some of these issues with an element of higher contrast between the foreground and backdrop.