Hey everyone,
I've been mucking around with my new favourite program - GraphicsGale - and seeing if I could get some cool characters happening.
I've got two versions - shaded and unshaded - I would like to know how good these look and what I need to improve on.
(http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/925/2ndjq1.png)
Unshaded
(http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/9471/3rdgp3.png)
Shaded
Any comments would be appreciated.
Cheers.
I feel you could use more contrast on the colors. Especially on the orange guy. You could also use larger areas of shading to make round stuff look more round.
Also orange guys crotch area looks wierd, almost like there is a round hole. I think you nailed human anatomy much better on the green guy, so I think you should use some features from him to make the orange guy look better. Mainly orange guy hands seem lumpy from the wrong places and his abdomen looks a bit wierd. On those things you have succeeded on the green guy (I bet you made the orange guy first ;)).
The female character seems to have breasts a bit high and a very long torso. To come to think of it seems that other characters have the same problem, but it is most noticable on the female character. Usually crotch line is in the middle point of characters height. Otherwise it looks good, even the face is cute :-*
Little guy looks good, actually I don't think there is anything wrong with him.
Alien character looks nice and friendly. His right shoulder seems bigger than his left and shading makes it look a bit flat. Also his left ankle looks a extremely thin compared to the right one. Maybe add some pixels to the thinner one or make the other one thinner?
These are top sprites. In addition to zabnat's points you should also look at the middle wing on the aliens right side. While all the other wings seem to come out of its back, this one originates from his arm pit. The right arm would be unable to move backward. Just move it up or down 1 pixel.
Thanks for the comments guys - I've edited the following:
(http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/1504/4thrp9.png)
-Character 1 - Breasts lowered, torso shortened
-Character 3 - Crotch adjusted, hands adjusted, hair and suit outline colours darkened to give more contrast
-Character 5 - Wing adjusted, shoulder adjusted, ankle adjusted
Let me know what you think.
The alien is definitively better.
About the female..her boobs still don't look right. They are way too big. Breasts almost never cross the silhouette of a womans back in the front view. If however for "artistic reasons" ;D you want them to be big, they should hang more.
Ok, I adjusted the breasts.
(http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/3659/4thdq7.png)
My "artistic reasons" were a tad too shallow....
OK I gave it a try, but you should probably stay with your version.
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/4thdq7_cob.png)
I see what you're getting at with the shading - I've adjusted it a bit to look a bit more rounded and hopefully I won't have to fiddle with her breasts anymore ( :=)
Also, one more character.
(http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/5535/4thxu5.png)
Let me know what you think.
The shading is still way too subtle. Try out shading them with their outline colors.
I must admit I was a bit nervous about increasing the contrast of the shading. But I've given it a shot, and I must admit, I am rather pleased with the result.
(http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/3003/5thnv6.png)
Hopefully this is a bit better.
Imho the shading looks better now.
About the new char. It looks a bit thin in the middle and the blue batch seems out of place. It is to low to go around its chest. Maybe you could also replace the crown, so that it cant just fall off. But I love the face.
I believe it is not a crown, but some sort of horns or similar thingies.
And he does not look that thin - he is a lizard and those are skinny ;)
Now to the picture - it looks great. The monster, lizard, small guy and the girl all look more than good. I do not like the look of those guys though. They look too thin for someone so muscular (especially the green one).
Because the sprites are so little, you need to up the contrast between your shades. Otherwise the colors just blend into each other. I'd do an edit, but I'm leaving for work soon and also I'm lazy. Also, on the two big tough guy sprites, I'd suggest getting rid of all the chest lines and letting your shading do the work in that respect. As it is now, they look shirtless and wrinkly. I'd also say something about pillow shading, but again, because I can't do an edit, I'll let someone else go into that.
Also, I love the sprite second from the right.
Cobra - gASK is right - they are horn appendage thingos, not a crown. I intended him to be skinny, again, as gASK said, he's meant to be skinny.
gASK- I tried doing the big dudes a bit wider in the middle after reading your comment, but it made them look flat and kinda 2d. I got the idea from those comic book characters with massive chests and tiny abdomens - I thought I'd give it a shot. But I can't get them to look right when they're wider.
Pesty - I thought I'd avoided pillow shading! Please tell me I haven't!!! I don't really know how to make the two fellas look tough without all the lines - the muscles don't stand out when I get rid of the lines and they look like star trek characters or something. I am going for the superhero look. And *MORE* contrast? *sigh* ;)
Here is a new character I coloured just now with LOTS more contrast even than the others. Can I get some feedback on whether this is better than the others and whether I should redo the other ones in this style? I'm a bit worried that the contrast might be too high...
(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/3526/6thnc8.png)
Sorry Ben, I thought it was a crocodile king. :P
The blonde is gorgeous. For me the best of your sprites.
Did a fairly quick paintover of the first female to give you some ideas about better proportions and shading. 'Pillow' shading as Pesty mentioned is when you either shade inward from dark-light as in your image or the reverse. While I don't particularly mind this in most cartoony sprites some people are put off by the lack of attention to any real light source. With that in mind I made an edit with a generic pseudo-overhead lightsource that's somewhat in front of the sprite so I can light it in a more visually pleasing way.
1. Reshaded with higher contrast and less saturated colors.
2. Adjusted leg/arm/torso length to be more anatomically pleasing.
(http://members.cox.net/progzmax/5th.gif)
The additional details I added aren't really important, just pay attention to how the colors in each area stand out from each other and help to create shapes like the knees and cheeks. You've got some interesting characters here so hopefully this will help them to look even better.
Cobra - Glad you like the new one - I've redone the old ones in the style of the new one, because I think I like this colouring a bit better.
(http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/2619/6thih3.png)
ProgZmax - Thankyou for this great example! I see what you mean by the lighting. I shall be giving this sort of lighting a shot - I hope I can make it work. Just a quick question - I noticed you've not used outlines as much on this image. Are there set rules on the sort of outlining to use when doing a sprite - I am kind of new to the whole pixel thing, but if I'm not mistaken I think I can see you using selective outlining on your example. Should I stick with outlines or get rid of them completely?
I must admit, I am learning a lot doing this. I never thought that redoing my characters would be helpful, but I think I am getting better. These are probably my best sprites to date, and I'm looking forward to improving the lighting and shading on them. Thanks a heap everyone - you've really kept me encouraged and inspired!
[EDIT]: I've had a shot at doing the first character with proper lighting - which I relied very heavily on Progz's example for reference, and this is what I've come up with so far. I'm gonna tackle the next few - I hope this is looking better.
(http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/2415/girljc4.png)
I admit it might need some work. Perhaps I'll see it better tomorrow... after some sleep.
[EDIT2]: And another one....
(http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/7950/redgecd5.png)
Not completely satisfied with it, but not sure where to go from here.
[EDIT3]: Meh... one more can't hurt...
(http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/1469/wowyh5.png)
Have you noticed the green dudes head is wayy off to the right?
I really enjoy to see your progress Ben. They are getting better and better.
The way I typically handle outlines is where the light hits the brightest I use the lightest shades and then gradually work down towards the darkest:
(http://members.cox.net/progzmax/arm.gif)
At the top of the shoulder for example is where I wanted direct light to hit, so the top is shaded with the lightest color. Part of the bicep and forearm stick out a bit so some light hits there as well, and I darken the area between the bicep and forearm to show the arm bent inward a bit and create some definition to the arm. I darken the underside of the arm (the right side) because it is close to the body and away from the light source and highlight the top of the hand and the lower forearm. In this way it makes it as though her forearm and hand are bending up a bit to catch the light rather than hanging by her sides. There really aren't any outlines left, just areas where not a lot or no light is hitting to help emphasize the shape of the image and get it to stand out on different backgrounds.
Medical Waste - Good point - I think I screwed up when shading his left side, and it makes his head look offcentre. It is on the "to fix" list. Cheers man.
Cobra - Thanks, man. I am really enjoying doing this - it has been very educational, and I think that this is the best I've ever gotten sprites to look. Quite excited about it, really.
Progz - Again, thankyou for your advice. I shall go back and try and adjust my outlines to reflect your example. I must admit that the example pic you drew has been an enormous help and the hands - I think my hands finally look like hands!!! The thing that amazes me the most, however, is your boots. They rock in ways that mine do not. I am very interested in the way that you use the shades of colour to emphasise the shape of things, and hope to improve on this on my sprites.
For now, here is the first draft of all the sprites done in this new style. I personally love the shape they're taking, and am pretty pleased with the progress. The only things bugging me at the moment is green dudes stomach, the top of big wingy dude's head and the shirt of mr lizard man.
(http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/5281/7thzr4.png)
And I added in little shadows for fun. The pallettes I've left up - I did them up because I took all the shading and outlining away completely before reshading, and didn't want to lose my colours.
Each edit you do shows marked improvement! The only thing I would suggest is for your humanoid characters to look at some photos of human anatomy and musculature for a reference. Particularly helpful is the 6.5-7.5 heads rule. Also, pay attention to the contours of the body and where it sticks out or dips in. Once you get a good feel for those you'll have no problems!
Hmmm - I shall have to investigate this 6.5-7.5 heads rule. I'm glad you think they're getting better - its a bit of a relief.
I know it is a little bit offtopic, but I was wondering if I could get any feedback on these two - I've been trying to put that shading idea to use in other situations:
(http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/7493/shipspritexl7.png)(http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/8562/shipsprite2xx3.png)
These two took me a fair while, but it was interesting to play around with the stuff I've learned.
I shall go and look up this 6.5-7.5 heads rule and get back to my sprites!
Thanks guys!!!
A Ferengi glider:D
I think we should be able to see the underside of the left wing and maybe even a bit of the left jet engine.
The schooner itself would look good if you lowered the 1st and 3rd mast, or maybe only 2 masts and the 3rd sail going from the bow to a mast, because ships with 3 masts are normally greater and have much more sails.
The structures you added look ridiculous. Sorry. Since its probably a spaceship, you could make the ship and the sails metallic. If you turn them into solar sails though, you would also need to alter the lightsource to make sense.
The shading itself looks great.
Cobra - Glad you like the shading. I'll have a shot at reworking the first one. I don't intend to use the 2nd one - I just wanted to have a shot at shading something a little more adventurous to improve my understanding of the shading. Glad you find it ridiculous ;D.
Now, I've had a shot at redoing the muscles on the orange man. I've put him right next to the old version for comparison. I am worried that I have gone back to this pillow shading by making this edit, but I guess I've gotta start somewhere. I've altered the gloves, legs, arms and torso. Boots, head and belt remain unchanged for now.
(http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/9012/muscleri4.png)
I've Googled this 6.5-7.5 heads rule but cannot find it yet. Perhaps I shall try and find a good proportions tutorial that might have it hidden in there somewhere.
And you had me worried that I'd nicked someone's spaceship unconsiously, Cobra! I googled this Ferengi glider - am I right in thinking that's the one with the big U shape, and that mine is different because the cockpit comes forward? I don't want to nick things of people!
He looks very muscular now, almost a bit to muscular for being rather thin. Concerning the shading, maybe some highlights on his shoulders (like you did on his breast) and maybe delete the highlight on his belly. Does not look pillow-shaded at all. No worries about the Ferengi thing. I guess you can't do a spaceship which does not resemble one already seen. Not even cubes (Star Trek) or Pyramids (Stargate).
This head rule means that a persons complete hight (head included) should be between 6.5 heads (females) and 7.5-8 heads (males). You can align important features with it. The breast for example should end with the second head. I will post a link when I find one.
http://drawsketch.about.com/cs/figuredrawing/a/fig_proportion.htm
Edit:link added
Hey Cobra,
Thanks for the tutorial man. I shall go through and check all my proportions.
Until then, I've tried reshading to make him look a bit less muscular, because I want him thin. I'm not too keen on the stomach still. Also did the shoulder highlight as you suggedsted.
(http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/3379/mus2fe5.png)
Somehow the palette you're using makes most of the characters seem a bit shiny. Could be just my eyes.
Also note that those proportions are for real humans, cartoon style characters like your sprites are usually under 7 heads (5-7 even). This makes it a bit harder to interpret rules in the link.
Zabnat - The pallette I've been using is really high contrast AND really high saturation. I think that's what give's them the shiny look. But I likies!
Now, I KNOW I was supposed to be looking at proportions and stuff... but I thought I might have a little bit of fun with this guy. Yes. I referred to animation as fun. Perhaps I have lost my mind - who knows? The basic animation I had done earlier - I adapted it with shading and improved it and stuff.
(http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/4894/walkiesvi9.gif)
You know what? I'm proud of it. Damn proud. Hell yes, it needs some more work. And hell yes it is animated too fast (will be slowed down in AGS). But for what its worth, I am proud of this little animation right here. It took me a fair while. I've stared at it for so long now that I've done the last frame that the little stomach line's movement reminds me of a metronome.
Please tell me your thoughts. Please limit the mocking - I may weep openly ;).
The thing that bothers me is that he seems to be looking from left to right and back. Now when I walk I always keep my head steady. For the rest I think it looks awsome! :D
Quick edit I did in my lunch break (who needs to eat???)
-Head adjusted
-Little shading thing in torso that was annoying me fixed
-Hands fixed - when slower they looked wobbly. Turned out I'd done two frames in the wrong order!!!
(http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/3321/shadiesvd9.gif)
Is good?
Well... hard to say, it looks like a hyperactive amfetaminejunkie on fast forward... ;D
Ok, less hyperactive??
(http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/3583/ojhua1.gif)
What bothers me the most is the handsThe triceps is moving a lot while the biceps aren't moving that much. Maybe lighten them and move them a bit up when the hand is moving towards the viewer? Try to look at yourself in the mirror and replicate the movement in your sprite.
Hope this helps.
You mean like this?:
(http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/3627/bickb8.gif)
First of all, I must say it looks really good! You've really mastered the shading imo :) The only thing bugging me in the animation is his groin; I don't know why or what, but it looks odd! But perhaps that's just me...
def is right, you are shading the legs too high - I mean you are shading tham to the belt. Try making the shading start lower and be more "realistic". Eg. knees move furthest to the back, while under the pelvis the legs dont move almost at all (just light shading).
Plus try doing something with shoulders. They remain unchanged through most of the animation, then they suddenly "flash" into dark.
Otherwise you made a great progress. The sprites are geting better each day. ;)
Hopefully the looking better each day thingie is gonna be a trend I continue today ;).
I've done some reworking of the groin and shoulders.
(http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/2772/walktu3.gif)
And I've been so impressed with GraphicsGale that I took the plunge and purchased the full version. $20AU (not much really) and I think I shall make a pact to never ever ever ever ever ever touch MSPaint again.
Except for the MSPaint game. During which I shall be completely frustrated by it. What was I thinking, using it for all those years???
See? Now it's way better.
I don't see nothing wrong with it now (others still may). But if you want to be perfect, you could make his pectorals move as well - stand in front of mirror in same outfit as the character is wearing and swing your arms. You will notice them moving.
Quote from: gASK on Tue 08/05/2007 10:32:17
in same outfit as the character is wearing
Ahem... yeah...
Anyway, your sprites have gotten really, really great... although doing the left/right walkcycle is probably going to be a real pain for you.
Head bobbing seems strange. Looks a bit like he's thrusting his head back and forth like a chicken. Head does move up and down when walking, but the whole torso moves up and down. So the head should keep relatively still in relation to his shoulders.
Zabnat - Head bobbing always seems to be a bit of a point of conflict. I know that when walking in the game the up/down movement of the character can look a little distorted, so if the head bob isn't working when I get it loaded into the game, I'll get rid of it. If it works, I'll keep it. Thanks for the tip anyway.
Akatosh - Thanks man - glad you like the shape they're taking. I'm currently working on the side sprite, so expect to see me posting a version of it up here soon for some crits.
gASK - Unfortunately all of my orange spandex was in the wash. I was gonna give him pec bounce, but I didn't wanna get the jiggly man-boob effect. Because nobody likes jiggly man boobs.
...ok, so not many people like jiggly man boobs ;D.
Anyway dudes, you've been absolutely awesome so far. I honestly cannot believe how far these have come since asking your advice. If someone had shown me the current sprites a week ago and then told me that I would draw them in a couple of days, I'd think they were being very silly indeed. I've got some more stuff I'm working on that I would absolutely LOVE your crits on, so thanks for your support so far, and please keep an eye out for my other stuff.
[EDIT]: Ok, guys, you know how the deal goes. I post a crappy sprite, you keep throwing suggestions at me until it looks good.
Round one:
(http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/783/wowsideyjr0.png)
Ok, couldn't find any good reference pics for the side view (unlike front one which I found a great one). Cue standing in front of mirror in boxer shorts, staring at where my big muscles don't seem to be. Hope this is at least a fairly accurate start....
Quote from: Ben304 on Tue 08/05/2007 16:25:59
gASK - Unfortunately all of my orange spandex was in the wash. I was gonna give him pec bounce, but I didn't wanna get the jiggly man-boob effect. Because nobody likes jiggly man boobs.
Well, they do not jiggle. They just kind of "stretch". It's just that this way it looks to me as if he was wearing some kind of armor...
As for the spandex suit - that was supposed to be an obvious joke. The smiley somehow wandered of as I continued to write the message...so, nevermind.
Finally - the side view sprite.
It is just what bothers me - the boots are too high (but that may be intention), the feet overall seem too big, the knees are waaay too high in my opinion (they should be at half of the legs height, which is NOT from belt to ground) and his muscles don't look as big as they seem from front view.
Hey gASK - I see - stretch, not jiggle. I might give it a shot to see about stretching them.
I got your joke about spandex. My reply was intended as a joke as well...
And I've done an edit on the side view based on your crits. Likey?
(http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/2115/wowsideyzw4.png)
- Boots made smaller
- Knee lowered
- Pectoral muscle given highlight to help it look bigger, extra shading given to ribs