One sprite, two perspectives

[Matti]

Hey there.

I tried to make a front view to an existing semi-sideview. Altogether I'm happy with it, but I have some issues with the face, they don't really look alike. I don't know if it's the (missing) nose, the eyes or eye brows or whatever. I'm just not quite happy with it. I tried to make a black line for the nose but that looked rather odd.

Any suggestions and critics are welcomed.

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This is what the sprites would look like ingame:

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[Anian]

...I think it's cause you've got the hairline a bit too high. The side view "seems" to have more hair, because we see more of it - so you might want to change so the side..... WAIT I'LL POST A PIC, too hard to explain what I mean.  

EDIT:
Ok, beside major fail with transparency...I'm stupid with copying it. I tried to help but it ended up me messing with it and not being too constructive (and probably wrong about stuff). Here's what I think would make it better:

1 chin needs to be rounder/softer, I also fixed up the lips a bit (smaller black line, more dark reds)
2 lowered eye line, (the right eybrow of the left head still needs to change perspective a bit)
3 you've drawn the hair as if it was glued to the head, hairs is always a bit puffier, it adds to the silhouette
4 smaller and more rounder ear
5 lowered the hairline, had trouble with this, to make it match, anyway the part where it splits shouldn't be in the middle, cause it's not on the left one either. have to make the top of the head a little bit biger
The eyes on the left also need to be a bit rounder. The spot where the hair parts is still a bit strange to me, but I've just modified your drawing.


I see by style, this is another sprite for your game, how's the progress, or is it a different new game (think you said your hard drive died or something)?

[mordax]

Mr. Matti. I think a big part of the problem with her face is because the 3/4 view make her chin/lower face look a lot pointier than the forward view, which makes it look quite rounded.

[Evil]

I layered the two views so you could see some of the problems with the face. I adjusted the layers to the neck and shoulders. Most of her features don't quite line up, which is why she looks so different in each view.



Aside from the features not lining up, there are a few other things that would make her the front look more like the 3/4. The hair is big part of what makes two views look like the same person. In the 3/4 her hair on the left comes across her face. Think of the contours of the forehead and how hair lays with the curve. To make the 3/4 look more like the front, the hair should have sharper curve at the top. To make the front look more like the 3/4, the hair should have less of a curve to it. Less "C" shaped and more "(" shaped. Make sense?

The shape of the chin is really working against you in these two views. Honestly, making the hair taller and fixing the chin would solve most of your problems.

The eyebrows are slightly different in each view too. The 3/4 is much more relaxed and up while the front is much more curved and stern. And the collar bones are way off.

In the bottom right I did a really poor paint over of some lines on the nose. If you're going to go with just nostrils, make the contrast between the two colors of the face much stronger and use the color to suggest the curves of the tops of the nostril and the ball of the nose. Just nostrils always looks like an alien or MJ. Or both. 

Anian beat me to most of it and their paintover looks pretty good.

[Matti]

Thanks for all the work and input, guys. There were some good points though I noticed some of them too.

Well, I really didn't want to significantly change the sideview cause I'm happy with it as it is, but I altered the front view in a way that it fits the other one I think. I reshaped the whole face a bit, made the eyebrows more relaxed, made the hair a bit less "glued" and made the curve rounder LESS round, adjusted the collar bones and made the shading color darker..

Also, since I didn't want to make a line for the nose (cause it always looked crappy) I made a brighter color for the noses shading.

Ah, and I left the mouthes just as I drawed them instead of using the "simplify"-tool in Illustrator, which makes the lines smoother. Same goes for the ears.

All that is left is to slightly change the hair of the sideview.




EDIT:
Something about the clothes bothered me too, so I changed the pullover (to make her look less tubby in the front view), highered the knees and put the pockets more to the side of the pants. I think I can leave it as it is now.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

You've made some improvements, but if you really want to make her face look right then you need to go back to the 3 quarter view and correct the problems with it and then apply those changes to the forward view.

I made an edit to show you what I mean, though it's really rough because of all the colors you're using.

1.  3 quarter view is 87 pixels tall vs the front view at 84.  This immediately creates alignment and visual issues so I normalized the head height for both views to 86 pixels tall.  This was purely a personal decision and you could make them both 87 pixels tall if you like, but even numbers makes placement of parts of the face based on anatomy and cartooning rules easier.

2.  Centered the eyes at 43 pixels from the crown of the head in both views and added generic pupils.  I find this makes her expression more human and less 'empty' or robotic.  Also brought out the eyelids just enough to make them visible.

3.  Added rudimentary highlights and shadows so I could bring out some natural shapes, like the nasal selion, the nostrils, and the brow ridge.

4.  Raised lips considerably.  They were simply too far down on the face anatomically and gave her a vaguely primate-esque appearance.  Also enlarged upper lip very slightly to bring out the natural curves.

5.  Altered eyebrow ridge to curve down around the eye.  This is important, especially for feminine features.  The eyebrows curve around the eye as they approach the brow and up and away as they move toward the side of the head.

6.  Added a part in her hair.  It looked very very strange without a natural part, almost like a wig.  The part I added was hasty and without much shading and would need to be redone to look convincing.

7.  Corrected perspective issues with the head in the 3-quarter view.  Way too much of her head and hair was showing so I rounded her head and brought the ponytail inward for a more natural look.  Also brought the jaw out one pixel so it didn't look quite so narrow.

8.  Adjusted the shape of the ear slightly in the 3 quarter view.





Much of the detailing I did with shadows and highlights helps to establish character.  Flat colored faces, especially large ones, don't present much character so you definitely should spend some time on adding at least simple shadows and curves to the sides of the lips, nose, and eyes to make the face look less flat.

Many of these corrections can be quickly done and will improve the realism of the face without taking too much time, so good luck!

[Matti]

Thanks, ProgZ for all that info.

The point is that I am going for a rather cartoony look without too much detail (especially regarding the shading*) and that I don't even know if I'm ever going to use the large versions of the sprites. I might only use the ~200 px high sprites seen in my first post.

* I followed my rule to give skin and clothes only two colors, one "normal color" and one for the shading though I am making exceptions like the highlight on the nose.


Also, I can't help but concentrating more on how aesthetically appealing it looks rather than how realistic it is. That's a reason why I won't include the pupils, cause I really like those black eyes, though you're absolutely right about them making the face more human.

But just to let you know, even if I don't take most of the points into account it's always good to learn about that stuff (anatomy, shading etc.) and it is definitely helpful in general, though I might ignore it for certain sprites (like these). So thanks anyway.

Well, I'll definitely change the hair because you're right about the perspective issue with the ponytail in the 3/4 view.