(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/4015/elephantlargecg9.png) (http://imageshack.us)
This has been in progress for a couple of days, and is a long way from complete. I've never been very proficient with any 3d package, so I find myself working very very slowly and having issues with topology ("mesh flow"). I'm looking for help in two areas:
- If anyone knows the ins and outs of modeling, any tips on keeping a nice clean mesh would be welcome. Workflow advice would also be extremely helpful. For reference here is a summary of the several steps the project's been through so far.
(http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/2685/elephantsmall01cg7.th.png) (http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=elephantsmall01cg7.png)
The first stage was a blocky sketch.
(http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1171/elephantsmall02hl1.th.png) (http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=elephantsmall02hl1.png)
Once the basic geometry was there extra detail was added by slicing in loops. A couple of adjustments to flow were made at this stage (sides of torso, tops of legs). It was basically all old-school subdivision modeling at first.
(http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/4862/elephantsmall03hx9.th.png) (http://img516.imageshack.us/my.php?image=elephantsmall03hx9.png)
The eye and much of the head are an exception- they were made by using edge extend with lots of messy hand-done adjustments. The flow of the eye area is quite a mess, and for the safety of humankind the techniques used should be locked in a radiation-proof underground vault somewhere under the Pacific.
Once it came time to attach the eye to the rest of the mesh, the extra edges flowing out of the eye were kind of overwhelming. How do people deal with varying mesh detail like this? I ended up running some of the loops around the front and top of the head, and others were run into the mouth (which still hasn't been modeled). A similar set of problems came when ataching the head to the shoulders- which is why there's a nasty ring of n-gons running down the neck.
- If anyone has more general comments (proportions, style, etc.) please feel free to offer any suggestions that come to mind.
I rather like it, may be some more detail on the feet, but it has a nice sculturical quality and it feels big,
Yeah, the feet and legs do look rather blobby, don't they? I'll probably detail them right after I finish the mouth up.
This is a very good model, really. I do not think you'll need many a tutorial, but should you really try to find some, the Cinema4D homepage links to several good ones.
First of I think the porportions are a bit off. I'm not sure on which part but it some how doesn't look right. I think it's wise to reference image inside your 3d program. Good ones of elephants might be tricky to find bu you could always sketch one or ask me to have a search ;) . By using reference you can make sure you get the proportions right. Also you shouldn't work in high poly but stick to low detail and once in a while check how the process is going in high poly. It's alot easier to work with low detail. But I must say you did a pretty good job. I think you got the shape almost right and the eye looks ok too.
Nice mesh, however... elephants have ears.
EDIT:
That said, I understand it's a W-I-P. :)
Mr. BucketHead- Thanks for the feedback. I chose to work freehand, looking at images in another window instead of 'tracing' over a background image in the viewports. So any errors in proportion are my own, and I'd love to improve upon them in any way I can. There's also been more than a little guesswork because some areas were hard to find good shots of (like the neck area, which tends to be hidden behind the ears). I'd value any specifics you have to offer about what makes the proportions seem off.
Quote from: Mr. Buckéthead on Sat 20/10/2007 08:45:42...reference image... Good ones of elephants might be tricky to find but you could always sketch one or ask me to have a search ;)
Could you, err, go take a photograph your pet elephant from the side? It's been hard to find a good profile. ;)
Quote from: Mr. Buckéthead on Sat 20/10/2007 08:45:42Also you shouldn't work in high poly but stick to low detail and once in a while check how the process is going in high poly.
This was modeled about 50/50 in subdivision and low poly views. I can see where you're coming from- there were many times I adjusted the mesh with subdivision on and then switched back to the low poly mesh only to find everything was horribly jumbled. Thanks.
Quote from: Bluesman Ben on Sat 20/10/2007 08:48:31
Nice mesh, however... elephants have ears.
Drat! I knew there was something missing! But seriously, ears are coming right after the legs and feet. So the queue looks like this:
- Finish mouth
- Detail legs and feet, adjust body proportions
- Make ears for Ben :D
- Touch up final mesh
- Begin wrinkles, materials, etc.
I'm not sure if you need this but if you are ever short on reference material:
http://www.3d.sk/ ;) They also have elephants.
After comparing your model with images on that site I think I know what looks wrong. The elephants back looks like he's from clay and someone gave his back a good pound with a baseball bat. If you know what I mean :P
anyway, what program are you using? The interface looks familiar but I can't come up with the name. :)
Thanks for the link- I've never been very involved in the cg scene, so there are a lot of resources I don't know about yet. When I get home from school I'll have another go at improving the proportions.
Quote from: Mr. Buckéthead on Sat 20/10/2007 18:04:54anyway, what program are you using? The interface looks familiar but I can't come up with the name. :)
Modo. This is sort of a "let's try out Modo" project, so I guess I'll post my thoughts so far. I like the tools and interface a lot. It has a fairly clean, intuitive feel for a 3d application. I like the way you can use some tools without a selection, and the integrated displacement and paint tools are a neat bonus. Never having used 3dStudioMax or Maya, I'm afraid I can't compare it to either, however.
It's a nice, decent model, but the mouth is seriously off.
Check this pic for reference:
http://www.naturephoto-cz.com/photos/sevcik/asian-elephant--elephas-maximus-1.jpg
Yeah, I was about to comment on the mouth. It's the first thing I noticed about this picture, actually. Other than that, it looks good to me.
--Erwin
Erwin_Br and KhrisMUC- good eye. That's actually not the final mouth, it's just an innocent ring of edges that will become the mouth. I'll post a more recent version later today.
(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/8320/elephant02nm8.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Here's a slightly updated version- the mouth has been modeled, legs and feet have been added to, and the overall shape of the torso, especially the shoulder area, has been altered. The front legs somehow look odd to me, kind of blobby and bland. I'm not sure exactly what they need. Actually now that I look at the back legs I'm seeing problems there too. Maybe the thighs need more mass.
KhrisMUC and Erwin_br, since both of you were thinking about the mouth earlier, if either of you has any suggestions I'd be happy to hear them. Personally I think the jawbone might be too square and flat; maybe it should be rounded and bulked up a bit? What about the shape of the lips?
Sorry Bluesman Ben, I still haven't done the ears. ;)
I like how the head looks. Gives me the idea of an elephant instantly. I'm still not sure about the back though
Quote from: Sparky on Sat 20/10/2007 17:54:14
To think you could've made my day!
Looking very much better already though. Is he Indian or African?
Mouth looks okay, now. The back looks good from the side, although you may have exaggerated the "bowl" on his back a little. Or, rather, the bump on his back is a bit too high. (The second one, approx. above his hind legs)
(http://www.rictus.com/viz/photos/nature/elephant.jpg)
--Erwin
(http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/4267/elephant03qk0.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/1931/render04vb8.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Here's another edit, this time with ears ;). Also new are the tail, trunk, and webs of skin attached to hind the legs. Minor edits: shape of back has been altered even more, jaw has been rounded out and softened, head has been enlarged and made more conical, back legs have been rounded out slightly.
Quote from: Erwin_Br on Mon 22/10/2007 20:17:54The back looks good from the side, although you may have exaggerated the "bowl" on his back a little. Or, rather, the bump on his back is a bit too high. (The second one, approx. above his hind legs)
You and the venerable Mr. Buckéthead both raised a good point here. Does it look any better now? The back has been straightened and smoothed, though it remains slightly exaggerated. Maybe it should be toned down even more. The thing is, some of the reference shots Google turned up seem to show more pronounced curves and bumps along the back. Others (like the one you posted) are very smooth and rounded. Does it look odd the way it is?
Thanks a lot for the help with the proportions. It seems the basic mesh is pretty much done, and it's ready for painting in details. If anyone has any further suggestions or criticism for the mesh itself, don't hesitate to mention it. Unless a change requires major surgery I think it should be possible to work it in even after texturing starts; I'm not really familiar with this program yet.
Great model. The ears are to far back though. Looks like they're attached to his shoulders or something. Check the photo Erwin_Br posted and you should see what I mean.
Thanks again for all the help with the proportions. The detailing is about 1/4 done now. Currently the color is just a placeholder. I'm not really happy with the texture of the wrinkles in some places- they have a tendency to seem too gooey. If anyone has any tips or feedback I'm all ears.
(http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/1654/elephant04nl0.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Note: The next edit will probably look fairly different because some of this progress was lost to a crash. Oops. Note to self- save regularly!
(http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/4669/elephant05qc1.th.jpg) (http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=elephant05qc1.jpg)
This is one of the first UV maps I've made, so any advice regarding the process would be particularly useful. The biggest problems came from the mesh itself, which isn't very tidy. There are quite a few areas where 5 or 3 point vertices created issues. The unwrapping process, which should have been a breeze, didn't work very smoothly as a result. The map needed a lot of time consuming manual adjustments as a result of this.
I'm also fuzzy on a couple of general ideas. I'm unclear as to how acceptable it is to slice the model up into separate UV 'islands'. How continuous should the UV map be? I think I made some poorly placed seams around the rear legs and ear. There are some unnecessary seams in those areas that tend to create artifacts. On the other hand, there are areas where the texture is distorted because I tried to make the map too contunuous. Another mistake is that the trunk is so compressed in the UV map that the texture resolution there is too low for some many of the details I wanted to fit in.
There are visible tears in the mesh in a couple of places, like behind the foreleg. It seems this is caused by the displacement map not quite matching across a UV seam. All I can figure is that it's a good idea to avoid visible seams when possible. Does anyone know of any way to avoid this?
As always any suggestions are welcome.
As always, any suggestions are welcome.
Mad! it looks amazing!
That's all i have to say, no critique here.
It looks great indeed. I do see some of the places where the texture doesn't tile (or what ever you call it) like at his belly. But for the rest it looks good. Maybe it does have some errors in some places (which I don't see) but I don't think it's anything you can't get away with.
And using multiple UV maps is perfectly alright btw. I know for the characters of UT2004 they use a 1024x1024 map for the head and another one for the rest of the body.
PS: have you ever heared of Bumpmapping? Could really do some magic to your model :)
I still think the ears are too far from his eyes. Either the neck/head is too long or the ear is simply attached to the wrong part of his body, can't really say. I'm surprised no-one else sees this. On the other hand, it's hardly a problem if I'm the only one who does, right? ::)
Aside from that nitpick it's a beautiful piece of work.
You are right. I've checked several images and all of them had the ear closer to the head. But I guess you wouldn't had noticed without a reference so it's not that big of a deal.
Hmm, before I wasn't sure about the ear distance issue. My room mate helped me place the ear, and we both thought it was in the right place at that point. But I think you're right, Tube. I've set up a couple of different ear positions now, and I'll use one of them in the next edit.
I haven't been commenting because I know nothing about 3D modelling, but I can't help but say the face of the elephant looks almost photorealistic now! :D
Another thing, if I may add: There are some really deep shadows in the fold of the ear, which are duplicated only in the mouth, shoulder skin folds and the tail. Looking at the reference, the dark shadows should show up on the neck and belly too. Not sure if this helps you at all, but just thought I'd mention it :)