Eric's art thread

[Eric]

You're bold to create sprites with such high resolution for your very first project

You've obviously seen the first page of the thread where I tried doing a pixel sprite, and that was an incredibly frustrating process, because it's totally different from the way I'm used to drawing. The process I used to make those above was pretty quick and simple...it literally took a single afternoon to redo everything, and I think I'd be faster at doing a second sprite. My only issue was working out the anatomy of the different angles, and I've done some hand drawings since then that show how much I learned just by going through this process. Also, I'll be using a camera from now on to have better reference for angles, proportions, etc.

* The right walk cycle - I think he's facing the "camera" too much, making it look like a diagonal view. You would probably see his torso more from the side.

Agreed here. I was realizing this when drawing the 3/4's from the front view -- there wasn't a lot of difference in the torsos for those two. The legs, I think, are correct, which may be another one of the reasons that right-walking view bugged everyone.

* The down view is too jumpy - instead of a smooth bobbing motion, he's kind of shaking.

I think part of this is my carelessness in lining up the sprites for the .gif (which would be the same process to make the sprites for the game). I've drawn this character's sprite in a line (not even spaced out for a sprite strip), and then stacked them on top of each other after the fact. It's something I'm going to change for the next sprites I do -- I'm going to stack them from the get-go, and that way I can onion skin easier as well. This first sprite has been a massive learning experience, and I took a lot of wrong steps.

* About the cabin background - this is very obviously a photograph painted over. This is fine, but is it a style you're pursuing? The character is rather cartoony, maybe the backgrounds need a more hand-made, cell-shaded look?

I'm incredibly, incredibly flattered that you think so, but the only photographic element in the picture is a generic wood texture that I used to make the base for the dresser. Everything else references photos (except that sink which is actually based on a pain-in-the-ass dual-fauceted bathroom sink), but nothing actually painted over. There'd be less wrong things about it if I'd painted over...like the stupid looking faucets, or the way my "I can draw these once and copy+paste them" chain links don't line up correctly, or the crookedness of some of the art deco lines on the dresser front, or especially the stripes on the bedspread that I tried to cheat and angle using a polar coordinates filter (these sorts of things are the only things I'm able to see in that image now, so I hate it, and now you probably will too).

But again, you're correct that the character and the room don't match. I think I'm going to hand-draw the backgrounds with harder outlines. This was me trying to follow some of the tutorials here on how to paint backgrounds. Also, this left me with a 49-layer PSD file, which is an incredible pain to deal with, so I don't think I'll be using this method again. I also had a two-perspective grid layer to which I rigidly stuck, and I think I'll allow some more play in that to be cartoony next time. I hate drawing backgrounds when doing comics, and so I'm both lazy and have little talent or experience in that arena, and that has, unfortunately transferred to my game making.

I'm going to try again with a different style for this competition (unfortunately, the best room to do for this would be the ballroom I have planned, but I'm afraid it would skew too much toward the sample pic in the thread's opening post.  ). There is actually a background I've seen recently, a dining room with a fireplace...oh crap. Nevermind. I just went to find it, and it's yours!...anyway, I was going to say that the outlined style that people didn't like there might fit better with my style of art. So maybe I'll hand draw the line art and color / add texture in Photoshop.

What was your process in doing these backgrounds, if you don't mind my asking?

* Also, I'd really really suggest waiting with the diagonal views until later. Not only do they require a ridiculous amount of work, they're also not very necessary except for a stylistic touch. Better proceed with story, coding and backgrounds, to give you a sense of progress.

I believe this player character will be the only one in the game who requires diagonals, so it's not too tough to finish these. Also, I'm working on all of those other things, just not sharing them on the forums! There's a reason there's a long period between posts besides all of my other life obligations. I've been working on a design document. Then I threw the first one out, because it seemed too by-the-book for an adventure game. This will hopefully serve as Chapter Zero for a multimedia, but mostly illustrated prose project I've been working on for awhile, so I know where the character needs to start, and where he needs to end, but not exactly what happens in between.

I also have a practice game set up with a bunch of rooms. No one will ever see it, and the rooms are a mixture of doodles, photographs spliced together with broad layers of color, backgrounds I swiped from this blog for fun, and over-sized vacuums of whiteness to look at walk cycles against. When I get an idea for something and I don't know if it will be codeable, I try things out there, ctrl+x'ing around to wherever I need to go. I'd never share that part of the process with you guys. I've already shared my ugliness in the first post of this thread.

Thanks so much for the time and thought put into your critique, Andail. I've taken your advice to heart and will do my best to act on it accordingly.

Edited to add: Best case, and unlikely scenario, I would love for my backgrounds to look like those overseen by Walt Peregoy in 101 Dalmatians. I think this is line art in a layer over paint.

[Andail]

That's a wonderful blog you've found there, really nice to be able to browse those old handpainted backgrounds like that.

I apologise for being a bit presumptuous about your background's origin; I based it on its composition and perspective, which looks very photogaphic to me, in addition to the wood texture.

As for my own backgrounds, the method I've worked out has speed as a key component. My art is usually less constrained in terms of resolution and style, but I also know that if I'm to finish my current project, I will need to be able to produce backgrounds rather quickly. Funny you should mention the outlines, because I've actually removed them, or at least toned them down considerably, in my final version.
The process usually looks like this:
1. I create a basic 3D shell in Sketchup. It's very crude, and just meant to establish a good perspective. The wonderful thing about 3D modelling is how you can change and adjust the viewpoint, so I can experiment around with the perspective.
2. I import a picture of the model in PS. I resize it and start cleaning up edges and details. I use textures very sparsely, since I don't want to lose the handpainted look. If I use a texture, I just find a good big picture somewhere and copy-paste it to the surface in question using Skew or similar re-shaping tool. 
3. I apply shadows and highlights with a custom brush to give it a more realistic look (as opposed to cell-shading).
4. I adjust hues and values, and often employ the Variations-function, to make colours more homogenous. One common error -or feature, depending on the style you're pursuing- in beginners' art is the wide and diverse range of colours. This is usually only found in comics, and not the real world, where there is a dominant light setting that will limit the colour range.

[Eric]

I apologise for being a bit presumptuous about your background's origin; I based it on its composition and perspective, which looks very photogaphic to me, in addition to the wood texture.

Oh no, it's fine. Like I said, I was flattered. It's those things that make me not like that room though, so I'm tossing it. If anyone needs a photorealistic dresser, feel free to ask for this one (the bottom stops at the edge of the bed, though).

Thanks too for the breakdown of how you do your rooms. I really liked your most recent one as well. I might need to learn to use Sketchup.

Here's something different. I gave myself a 40-minute time limit to see if I could come up with a little animation from scratch. This guy is part of a band that will be playing in the background.

I wouldn't bother with a critique were I you-- I barely gave myself time to save the .gif and I know there's a lot, lot, lot to be fixed here. However, as usual, sharing here makes me want to keep working and keeps my typical Gemini attention span focused.

[Eric]

Tried for something a little different with this background for the recent competition. I'm still using Illustrator, but using brushes created from scanned lines to attempt a hand-drawn feel. Does this work at all?

[Ali]

That's a wonderful blog you've found there, really nice to be able to browse those old handpainted backgrounds like that.

Hey, I've been posting links to that blog for years. I demand recognition!

I really like the departure lounge, it almost has the feel of Broken Sword. However, I do feel there is a slight clash of styles on closer examination. The glass effect on the window doesn't quite gel for me and the outline-free central column is more classic Warner Bros than the rest of the room.

Perhaps try using different coloured outlines - perhaps a light colour for the glass in the foreground?

[Eric]

I really like the departure lounge, it almost has the feel of Broken Sword. However, I do feel there is a slight clash of styles on closer examination. The glass effect on the window doesn't quite gel for me and the outline-free central column is more classic Warner Bros than the rest of the room.

Perhaps try using different coloured outlines - perhaps a light colour for the glass in the foreground?

I'm very pleased to hear from you, as the Nelly Cootalot game has beautiful, stylistic graphics, and has been one of my favorite aesthetic experiences in playing AGS games.

I need to start reviewing my posts to point out where I've cut corners or know that I've been lazy beforehand -- the glass effect I assume you're talking about is the view of the buildings in the background? That was, unfortunately, a corner cut so I could meet the deadline of the competition, hastily lasso selected shapes fill bucketed grey. In a better version of this background, I'd hope to draw better buildings, and also make better (animated?) clouds. Would that improve the effect?

I like the idea of things that aren't outlined, but I agree with you that it doesn't mix well with the rest of the image -- the rug is also bothersome for the same reason. A color hold effect on the linework would get me the benefits without being stylistically jarring.

I really like the departure lounge, it almost has the feel of Broken Sword.

This was, by the way, very kind of you to say. So kind that I will ignore the overwhelming sense of modesty that makes me want to reject the comparison (if I could ever achieve backgrounds 1/10th as nice as those in Broken Sword, I'd pack it in and call it a day). The style of this one was inspired by watching The Illusionist on three successive days (if I could achieve backgrounds 1/100th as nice as Sylvain Chomet's, I'd etc. etc.).

Thank you!

[Yoke 2.0]

I like the idea of things that aren't outlined, but I agree with you that it doesn't mix well with the rest of the image -- the rug is also bothersome for the same reason. A color hold effect on the linework would get me the benefits without being stylistically jarring.

The look of the rug doesn't bother me as much as the fact that the corner of the rug seems to be exactly at the edge of the pillar. The two halves don't seem to line up properly, at least not to me, until I traced the lines with my cursor. There's some weird illusion going on that makes me perceive the right half as going further down than the left half.
The lacking outlines on the pillar does not seem that jarring to me as I feel it ads "blurriness" to an object that is not in focus. But then again you would have to remove the outlines for the table and glass as well for that to hold true.

Oh, and art deco elevators always make me think of Grim Fandango for some reason.

[Eric]

The two halves don't seem to line up properly, at least not to me, until I traced the lines with my cursor. There's some weird illusion going on that makes me perceive the right half as going further down than the left half.

!!! Super horrible tangent there. Wow. I wouldn't have noticed if you hadn't pointed it out, but that's horrible.

I'll mess around with the outlines some over the next week and see if I can't figure out a best practice. Thanks for the input, Yoke!

[EchosofNezhyt]

Nice job I like the look of your character.

[InCreator]

Sorry to come on hard, but I totally hate hand movement on main (?) character. It's overacted.
He feels like he's not using arms to compensate on body movement nor balance himself, but trying to act carefree.
Way more than needed. So he seems either mentally retarded or trying to look gay.

Uhfgood posted good pencil sketch animation of - I'd say - the extreme limit of normal/natural-feeling hand movement. Anything beyond this is insane and borderline and you pretty much crossed it with yours.

Even if acting most enthusiastic walk, hand shouldn't raise above crotch. And if so, you've just created a new meme.

[Eric]

Yeah, I'm just going to ignore that. Feel free to not post in this thread any more.

[EchosofNezhyt]

The walking animation looks pretty good, But something about them hands is off.

I"m still trying to get mine to look right too, Along with everything else.

[Eric]

Thanks for your comment, FritoMaster (Like the corn chips? If so, I might be able to challenge your masterdom. I too am a connoisseur.).

I've figured out what's off about the walk model for Felix, who is intended to have a cartoonish strut. The arm movements match (actually, they're not nearly as extreme) as the sorts of cycles I was drawing influence from, but the rest of the body does not move in the appropriately cartoonish way.

This is because I was influenced by a common walk cycle called the double bounce, of which, as you might guess, the double bounce is the essential part. Coincidentally, that's the part I've left out.

It's also the reason why I haven't checked in with a new walk cycle in awhile -- I'm redoing these again, and I think I'm moving to hand-drawing everything now that my lightbox and scanner are working. Unless I win the lottery and get a Cintiq sometime soon, hand drawn animation will be much quicker for me. This time I'm going to add the double bounce, and slightly more cartoonish anatomy (the way I'm drawing the character when he's not moving in other media).

Here's an example of a double bounce cycle:



...Perhaps that looks "gay" or "mentally retarded" to some of the more crass users here, but I honestly couldn't give less of a f#*k.

[Tabata]

... whatever you may call it, how it looks ...

He's got the groove  - definitely!

- sooo cool  - 

I can't look at it without a smile! - Just great! 

[EchosofNezhyt]

Thanks for your comment, FritoMaster (Like the corn chips? If so, I might be able to challenge your masterdom. I too am a connoisseur.).

I've figured out what's off about the walk model for Felix, who is intended to have a cartoonish strut. The arm movements match (actually, they're not nearly as extreme) as the sorts of cycles I was drawing influence from, but the rest of the body does not move in the appropriately cartoonish way.

This is because I was influenced by a common walk cycle called the double bounce, of which, as you might guess, the double bounce is the essential part. Coincidentally, that's the part I've left out.

It's also the reason why I haven't checked in with a new walk cycle in awhile -- I'm redoing these again, and I think I'm moving to hand-drawing everything now that my lightbox and scanner are working. Unless I win the lottery and get a Cintiq sometime soon, hand drawn animation will be much quicker for me. This time I'm going to add the double bounce, and slightly more cartoonish anatomy (the way I'm drawing the character when he's not moving in other media).

Here's an example of a double bounce cycle:

...Perhaps that looks "gay" or "mentally retarded" to some of the more crass users here, but I honestly couldn't give less of a f#*k.

Honey BBQ or chili-cheese or original?
Anywho back on topic

I think it fits the character and I rather like the pixel version of him but I'm biased since I love that style and not a huge cartoon fan anymore.

I'd say keep doing what your doing and I'm sure once your done the animations will look even better.

[InCreator]

...Perhaps that looks "gay" or "mentally retarded" to some of the more crass users here, but I honestly couldn't give less of a f#*k.

You misunderstood. Emphasis on word (over)acting. You don't see such effort imitating happy-walk even in Tom & Jerry cartoon.
But whatever - it's critics' lounge.

[Misj']

I agree with InCreator on the overacting (not the 'retard' of 'gay' bit though; I don't think the animation evokes that peronality). Now...I am a fan of the more loony and surreal cartoons, and I can certainly appreciate such wacky animations, but...

First of all, I don't think it matches your general art-style. You have a semi-realistic art-direction. Sure, it's cartoony, but it's not that over the top. And as a result, over the top animation would clash with it. I'm not suggesting that you'd make the animation realistic. I'd rather you don't. But remember that your main character is on-screen all the time, and the player will be looking at him walk most of that time. Subtlety will go a long way.

I've taken the liberty of stealing a small section from the intro of Animaniacs. This show thrived on over-acting and wacky animation. In the introduction there's a small walkcycle for most of the cast. While the arm-swing is quite exaggerated, leg-movement and bounce - while over-the-top - are still within constraints.


But...if you feel this animation matches your vision, the art, the personalities. That's the most important thing. Especially - in a cartoon - the personalities should come across. So if you feel this is the way to go, then this is the way to go.

One thing that does bother me a lot, though, was the lack of bones (and consistent volume). So I did a quick, crude, redraw of the character, keeping the same poses (I actually exaggerated them a bit more for the arm-movement) to show you the difference between bones and rubber for this character. I also added a frame that I missed (but that could be due to my extraction of the gif-frames). I've also added some bounce in his hair and shirt.


In short, I would try to make it a bit less bouncy, add some more subtlety, act out his walk before you draw it try to convey the feelings and emotions you had during that walk (rather than the actual movement), convey his personality, and most of all: remember that this is the animation the player will see most.

Misj'

ps. I do like the hand-drawn frame-by-frame animation you've got here.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

The style is looking more and more like a Mickey Mouse cartoon, now .  I have to agree with InC and Misj, though, I don't really see this fitting your art style as you've shown it.  Perhaps if you redraw your character with more exaggerated, cartoonish features you could get away with this sort of strut but as it stands I think it may just jarr with your more realistic character designs (which I thought were pretty nice).  I would be curious to see you try and translate your protagonist into a more whacky art style and then animate him like this, though.  Exaggerated, silly animations tend to be more suitable for absurd comedy so if your game falls along those lines it may be worth a try.

Edit:

Temporarily locking the thread at the post author's request.

Edit:

Unlocked at author's request.

[Eric]

So if you're new to this thread where I quarantine myself, ignore most of what's gone on over the last three pages. That was a learning process, and that game is on the backburner for now, maybe forever.

In the meantime, I've been playing lots of great AGS games that, as a newcomer, I've missed over the years, and it's made me feel like sharing something of my own with you. I call this work-in-progress background "The friscalating dusklight." It's part of a detective game I'm making set in the town where I live. For as many of the locations as I can, I'm going to reference real places, and this is an alternate reality version of such a place. As you may have surmised from the background, the sprites will be much more realistic this time as well.

[Armageddon]

Are you still trying to go with the Disney style backgrounds? The tree kind of seems like it?