Hey, this is my first attempt at drawing a background and wondered if i could get some feedback, i know theres not much to it at the moment but just wanted to see if i am on the right track with stuff like perspective and colours etc..
Here it is:
(http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4826/21dp.jpg)
As i said, not much to it but any feedback would be much appreciated :)
Well the perspective is right, after all it's just a box...
To be a little picky (it's empty) the door seems to be going in the wall not to come out of it. It should be 2 mm to the right to seem ok.
Change the colour of the window (what is shown outside), cause it's the same as the wall.
The light is on or off? Put some shadows.
If you put more stuff in (like furniture), I think people will be able to tell you more.
I kinda like it though, and I'm not an artist by a million...
Cheers for that (speedy) response, I'll post more pics once i've added to it.
P.S. I'm not an artist by a million either (which is prob why its taken me about 12 hours to come up with that :-\)
It reminds me of my background. The one with the At-At and the Canadian flag. :)
Quote from: Krysis on Fri 30/09/2005 15:49:10
It reminds me of my background. The one with the At-At and the Canadian flag. :)
Erm yea, I kinda stole the idea from you, only the basic layout mind.. oh and maybe the door :P, I hope you dont mind, [sucking up]it's just that i liked yours so much I wanted to do one similar[/sucking up] :)
I dont mind but... why not try to make your own rooms? Makes more sence than simply copying. :)
Quote from: Krysis on Fri 30/09/2005 16:11:15
I dont mind but... why not try to make your own rooms? Makes more sence than simply copying. :)
Because im crap at drawing :-[
but yea i am planning on drawing the rest of the room (and my other rooms) all by myself.
Just out of interest, dou you draw your backgrounds by hand first and then scan them in?
Krysis, PayluB too, you know there are a lot more than those two rooms that have a window and a door? At least mine does, and wait... oh, there's a lamp too hanging from the roof. Well how peculiar is that...
Please, cupboard, computer, bed, bunny and a teddy added, then say it's copied... Just to point out... :P
Quote from: PaulyB on Fri 30/09/2005 16:23:13
Quote from: Krysis on Fri 30/09/2005 16:11:15
I dont mind but... why not try to make your own rooms? Makes more sence than simply copying. :)
Because I'm crap at drawingÃ, :-[
but yea i am planning on drawing the rest of the room (and my other rooms) all by myself.
Just out of interest, dou you draw your backgrounds by hand first and then scan them in?
Lol, it allmost sounds like I'm some sort of a real artist. ;D
Anyway I just draw a rough layout with bright green lines and then start adding other lines, color, shading. Some of the objects I make separate to make sure it looks good. But I guess you should read a tutorial instead of listening to me - I really aint got enough experience with this. :)
And a real good advice from me: never use .JPG. It looks horoble and destroys every nice color or line u have into sum fuzzy blur. The .PNG is basicly the best for me. :)
Quote
Lol, it allmost sounds like I'm some sort of a real artist. ;D
Anyway I just draw a rough layout with bright green lines and then start adding other lines, color, shading. Some of the objects I make separate to make sure it looks good. But I guess you should read a tutorial instead of listening to me - I really aint got enough experience with this. :)
And a real good advice from me: never use .JPG. It looks horoble and destroys every nice color or line you have into sum fuzzy blur. The .PNG is basicly the best for me. :)
Well i think your backgrounds look good, artist or no artist :)
Anyway i've added a couple of things to my background, see what you think, its in .PNG format ;)
(http://img285.imageshack.us/img285/46/57wv.png)
Good, but I think it needs way more things and details.
And that table should be something like this....
(http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/2711/awdi2qa.png)
good luck
wow its really nice for a 1st room :D only you shouldn't copy pictures like the warrior getting hit...
For a first one, you managed to avoid most of the mistakes newbies usually do, good job.
Notes: (may sound harsh, but are meant to help ya out and for 1st try at CL people usually get even more crits than this)
* The door is wrong. Pull it's bottom part few pixels down, that's the best way to fix the problem (I'm unable to explain it due my lack of english vocabulary) or examine very closely to see this logical error.
* Try to use more er- math - when drawing. The shapes are too abstract, for example, I don't understand why you made panels on door so different? It leaves a "rushed" feeling.
* Get rid of double pixels. It feels almost like a style of yours... but that's not a good way to go. Again, looks too rushed.
* fix the perspective on window. It's bottom line is awfully incorrect... Also, I think that window could be lower and bigger.
* Overall, the room feels too high, including the door.
* Don't use JPG's, they look awful if it comes to pixel art. Save your image either as GIF (if under 256 colors) or PNG (the best IMO, even mspaint on WinXP saves that)
* Using a photo/multicolor poster doesn't quite fit with left of the drawing
* The desk is awful, if it comes to perspective. Also, who puts a desk into a middle of the room?
I would say that before you go any further, you do need to correct the perspective on the room. Most importantly the bottom window line, but really, make all the diagonal lines flow to one point.
Then you can worry about adding furniture, etc.
That is, unless you don't want to have totally correct perspective...
Thanks for all the feedback, I really appreciate it. I'm trying to take it all on board but I'm confused by a couple of the things you suggested, mainly:
- the bottom window line - i'm not sure how that should look, does the line need to go up or down a bit??
- The desk is awful, if it comes to perspective - after i drew the desk i had a feeling it didnt look right but i wasnt sure what exactly i needed to chage about it, is it too small, wrong angle??
- make all the diagonal lines flow to one point - also this bit of advice conufses me, do you mean i need to make all the lines straight, or shall i make them all point in the same direction??
Thanks again
Paul.
Quote from: PaulyB on Sat 01/10/2005 02:28:54- the bottom window line - i'm not sure how that should look, does the line need to go up or down a bit??
- make all the diagonal lines flow to one point - also this bit of advice conufses me, do you mean i need to make all the lines straight, or shall i make them all point in the same direction??
(http://www.twin-design.com/ags/help/paulyb_help01.png)
- red lines flow towards the vanishing point. Keeps things in perspective.
- black lines show where the wall, door and window lines should be
So you see, the ceiling lines are off too (I forgot to draw their black lines).
Hope that helps.
wow thats a really cool sulution :D
What? Haven't you seen vanishing points before?
I know, right??? Seriously... That's not a really cool solution. Outside of using 3D or CAD software, it's the ONLY solution...
Yeah, but try moving the vanishing point down. :)
Darth based the vanishing points according to the lower room borders. One could try a point according to the ceiling borders.
Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Sat 01/10/2005 02:41:44
- red lines flow towards the vanishing point. Keeps things in perspective.
- black lines show where the wall, door and window lines should be
So you see, the ceiling lines are off too (I forgot to draw their black lines).
Hope that helps.
Thanks for that, i'll get working on getting it in perspective..
Oh and by the way, did you set the vanishing points by hand manually or did you use some software?
Quote from: PaulyB on Sat 01/10/2005 15:57:11Thanks for that, i'll get working on getting it in perspective..
Oh and by the way, did you set the vanishing points by hand manually or did you use some software?
You're welcome :)
I took the two bottom wall/floor lines and made the vanishing point where they intersect. So ... basically by hand, but not just guessing! It seems confusing, but once you get it, it's easy to work with.
Raising and/or lowering the vanishing point can change the "feeling" of the room.
If I want a laid back/somber feeling I might lower it a bit. If I want a more dramatic feel I raise it a bit.
Lighting is really the key to convey these "feelings" but you'd be suprised how much the angle helps!
The poster doesnt really look right. Its too much colors and it doesnt fit the look of the game.
I bothered doing this to give you a idea of how I think a poster or image from a foto should look in a game looking like yours. Hope it helps.Ã, ;D
(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/5206/sample7lh.gif)Ã, Ã, 2x(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/5206/sample7lh.gif)
Notice that I tilted the poster slightly. I just think strait horisontal and vertical lines looks odd and loses some of the "cartoony" look in a background.
Oh, and sorry if it aint too corect but It looked like a zombie shot few times and losing his head. Maybe it isnt. I cant really tell. :)
Thanks for that!, i like what you've done with the poster, I think it will fit more with the style of my game now :) i'll post a pic when i've had time to update my background.
Oh and I agree with what you say about straight horizontal and vertical lines, i am going for a 'cartooney' look in my game and did try to tilt all the lines slighty.
P.S. the poster is of shaun from the (brilliant) film Shaun of the dead:
(http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/7192/70ag.png)
Ok here is a very quick modification of my background, not had much spare time to work on it these last couple of days, hopefully i'll be able to spend more time on it this week, take a look:
here it is pre-modification
(http://img285.imageshack.us/img285/46/57wv.png)
and after
(http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/4379/17ga.png)
mainly ive changed the top wall/ceiling borders, the window, the door, the poster (with a little help from Krysis ;)) and the desk. What do you guys think, does it look more in perspective now?
It still kind of hurts one's eye that the only warm colours in the room are in such a detail as the poster. I mean, it stands out too much being so differently coloured than the rest of the room... As in, the red and black are very strong and sharp colours whereas the rest of the room is mild like a hospital
OK. Time for a few friendly tips. :)
1. No need for shading or light at this point, first make the room basic layout. When you think you R ready with the room start doin the lighting according to the light source(s).
2. Dont go out of the line like with the windowshade.
3. All lines are too gray, all colors too. Add come color. Looks like a morgue.
4. Check the perspective by pasting this image in Paint and drawing bright green or yelow lines over your lines.
5. U can trip on a doorstep like this, and if it opens to the room than u cant turn on the light. Besides the desk is gonna jam it a bit.
6. Make your own posters either by tracing pics or by drawing them by yourself.
7. Take a pensil and a piece of paper and draw a layoult of the room. It saves time.
8. The window looks flat. and the PC is too small.
Hope that helps :S
Yea it does, i appreciate all the feedback ive got, it's been very helpful thanks :)
This room is taking me waaaaay longer than expected, but at least i am learning and i suppose it will be worth it in the end (at least i hope it will :-\). I'll post up some more pics in the next couple of days to show you my progress.
1. Don't quote the whole fkin previous post. That just wastes bandwidth (CJ pays for).
2. The proportions are still not right. The ceiling and door are too high, compared to the char. And the desk is too deep, right now it looks almost like a cube.
3. What are the grey lines on the ceiling? Certainly, the lamp's shadow would look different.
Sorry about quoting the whole post but i doubt a few lines of text is gonna take up too much bandwidth :P
Anyway, i lowered the cieling and shrunk the door a bit, also added a rug and a bed
(http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/223/untitled8cg.png)
really. move that bed closer to the wall. and that rug is too... flat :). I would recommend you to make your own rug. I hope you understand, and good luck again.
Quote from: PaulyB on Tue 04/10/2005 22:31:31
Sorry about quoting the whole post but i doubt a few lines of text is gonna take up too much bandwidth :P
Okay, then forget that and don't do it because it's completely unnecessary.
The door, desk and bed are still out of perspective.
The light switch is still behind the opened door, and it's too big and too high.
The doorstep is still way too high.
Try to spend a little more than 10 minutes on your next paintover, after you've read the various helpful suggestions in this thread, which you seem to simply ignore.
Quote from: khrismuc on Tue 04/10/2005 23:11:01
The door, desk and bed are still out of perspective.
Oh right, Im not sure what i need to do to get them in proportion then cos i lined all the diaganol lines up using the vanishing point as suggested by Darth in a previous post.
Quote from: khrismuc on Tue 04/10/2005 23:11:01
Try to spend a little more than 10 minutes on your next paintover, after you've read the various helpful suggestions in this thread, which you seem to simply ignore.
Hey i havent ignored any of the sugestions, ive just not had a lot of time to work on my background thats all. As i said above, im very grateful for all the help ive been given.
And what's weird that his perspective is quite correct. At least I tried and got close lines. I didn't use darth's point, but tried to put point where four walls meet (purple lines). Only one really missed was bottom of rightmost wall... So I used the point of other three.
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/unpersp.png)
Other incorrect elements are the door, bed and desk a bit.
But overall, though it IS about correct, it FEELS so wrong. Must be those stupid decisions to move both bed and desk into bizarre positions - away from walls.
Or did I do anything wrong?
............................
Suggestion - lower the vanishing point and save yourself from so unrealistic look plus extra drawing the tops of the things. This has been suggested and I will second it.
If you start drawing a room, start with this rectangle far back - the back wall. Then try to put the vanishing point onto it, the closer to the middle (center!), the better. Easiest way to do this is simply pull 2 diagonals from corner to corner (separate rectangle into 4 triangles). And ONLY then start to make everything else - you have a perfect guide now, called "vanishing point". Since totally centered vanishing point is - well - boring, moving it now somewhere a bit will produce interesting viewpoints.
Often, the 100% correct perspective isn't required at all - I, for example very rarely mess with vanishing point, since it bores me and demoralizes. But trick is to produce believeable perspective, it should atleast FEEL right. The feeling is most easier to get by either learning to do it correctly first (using the system) - or having a good memory + playing 3D games/living your real life with strong observation and memorizing. This all comes with time and experience.