First ever attempt at an outdoor background.

[poc301]

So for my new game, I am working on the town's police station outside..  I have never done an outdoor scene before, and the shadows and a few other things are kicking my butt, so I figured I would post the current incarnation to get some tips..

The grass and sidewalks are still undone, so that is why there are just solid colors.  Several things also don't have any shading or shadows yet, I am still just beginning on this piece.  Keep that in mind

Things I am having issues with:

The railing shadow.  The shadows from the tree on the ground.  The side of the building on the left and its shadow being cast.  The shadow sequence in the alcove under the front door.  I am afraid with those long shadows it almost looks like it is sunset, but it is not supposed to be.  Its supposed to be midday.



Any advice is appreciated. 

Thanks,

Bill

[Moresco]

Well then back off on the shadows for one.  If it's supposed to be midday with the sun more or less directly overhead, then you probably won't want really long shadows.  As for me I usually calculate my shadows, I never just guess at them, but I suppose you could.

The form of the railing, as it goes up on the right...is wrong in shadow.  As it goes up it curves, but in the shadow you have it going across flat connecting to a vertical.  I hope what I'm saying makes sense.

The other thing that bothers me here is the brick wall on the left, both sides of the wall...but especially the side on the very left.  I just can't see how that would work, to be honest.  Even after you straighten those bricks out to match the opposite side, you need to fix the perspective.

I'll make a paint over in a while if you need it --- but basically (now I'm talking about the left side closest to the light brown wall) as the bricks come towards the viewer, as they're doing here, they should become slightly larger.   But most of all they should follow the perspective, here's a nice reference to show you what I mean:

http://image60.webshots.com/60/8/55/12/442285512XrRZFT_fs.jpg

Nice looking station though =D Keep at it.

[poc301]

Well then back off on the shadows for one.  If it's supposed to be midday with the sun more or less directly overhead, then you probably won't want really long shadows.  As for me I usually calculate my shadows, I never just guess at them, but I suppose you could.

**Forehead Slap**

I can't believe I didn't realize that...  Wow...  I will be scaling it back HUGELY..  Heh, did I mention I am a first timer

The form of the railing, as it goes up on the right...is wrong in shadow.  As it goes up it curves, but in the shadow you have it going across flat connecting to a vertical.  I hope what I'm saying makes sense.

I am a little confused.  Do you mean I have it bending the wrong direction for a shadow?  With the sun directly overhead, it will change drastically now anyway.

The other thing that bothers me here is the brick wall on the left, both sides of the wall...but especially the side on the very left.  I just can't see how that would work, to be honest.  Even after you straighten those bricks out to match the opposite side, you need to fix the perspective.

I used the paint brush pattern in Paint.Net to draw the bricks.  I was hoping to be able to make it look passable, but with straight and 45 degree angle, I am kind of limited.  Maybe drawing by hand will be the best bet..

I'll make a paint over in a while if you need it --- but basically (now I'm talking about the left side closest to the light brown wall) as the bricks come towards the viewer, as they're doing here, they should become slightly larger.   But most of all they should follow the perspective, here's a nice reference to show you what I mean:
http://image60.webshots.com/60/8/55/12/442285512XrRZFT_fs.jpg

Nice looking station though =D Keep at it.

I would very much welcome a paintover to help me see this scene the proper way.  I got comfortable doing interiors over the past few days, but this is a whole other ballpark..

Thanks much!

Bill

[Moresco]

I would very much welcome a paintover to help me see this scene the proper way.  I got comfortable doing interiors over the past few days, but this is a whole other ballpark..

Sure, Bill, no problem-o.  But I'm running a bit slow today, so it might be a while.  Definitely drawing everything by hand is the best way to go, I promise.  Though sometimes it's a drag, and it can take a lot longer to do.   It's worth it though.

Update: And here we go with the edit.



As you can see the brick wall looks really different now, compared to what you had.  That really only took a few minutes to paint, and I'd say it could benefit from more detail and whatever but maybe that's good enough for the level of detail you're going for.  I just guessed at the perspective, it's still a wee bit wonky but for this edit, it'll pass. =D 

Usually I zoom WAY out in my project and throw pen-tool lines down, drag them to a horizon and vertical line intersection rule (I do two or more sets for 2 or 3 point perspective), then stroke them in an appropriate color to a new layer.  Then you can refer back to it later on when you need to.  It works well in say Photoshop, not sure about any other programs.

Finally the shadow I figured I'd point out just because, even though you may end up changing it.  Basically it's just a form bend that I thought I saw, with the bar going up at an angle, and then the shadow was different.  The change I made is illustrated by the little blue arrows. ^_^ Carry on.

[Anian]

Have you thought about making the left wall more under 90 degree angle, this looks like a strange building? Glad that RP took care of those bricks, they needed to be bigger. The railing...well I just don't have any advice on that, I suck at shadows.

I know Photoshop shouldn't be recomended (well not the cracked version anyway  ) but maybe Gimp or some other free program would suit your needs. It has basically the same tools but there are more modifications you can do. The function for that texture problems is called Distort or Perspective, you can make a fast and easy work of it, and it would look cool. Plus it has guidelines you can place so you can place the horizon and layers so you can use one layer as a guide for diagonal and angled lines that meet with the perspctive point. Purely as a recomendation, since these backgrounds don't go into that style of 320x200 resolutions (which require much pixel scale details). Just a thought, I'm no expert at it but it seems to me like it would be easier.

[rbaleksandar]

I'm confused when it comes to the angles in you image. Look kind of messed up. Shadows point in different directions. Here are some pointers and explanations what I mean below:

  I'll start from top and go to the bottom
1.The badgy-thing (dunno how it's called) is aligned wrong. The center of the circle should be right above the center of "Police Department".
2.The tree's shadow conflicts with the shadow thrown by the lamps on the roof of the building. And besides - some of it is missing. I can't see the shadow continuing downwards to the ground. It's just a small fragment on the wall. And having in mind that this is a tree - starts from the ground and goes up to the sky - there should be something down the wall to the ground
3.I can't figure out what's the reason for you to put that strange brick-wall around the door...Nevermind. It's your desing. But what looks really weird is the fact that there are 3 different brick-types along the facade. What's more - the left corner of the wall (on the left side of the door) looks...perfect. It's almost impossible to make it look that perfect and besides - look at the top of the wall where the lamps are placed - there are curves etc.
4.Door - you see from my "corrections" what I mean.
5.Whut's with the blue plate or something next to the door (circled it with yellow and put a question mark)?
6.Railing in front of the front-door looks strange to me. Its whole desing is nothing I've ever seen. Bars that are supposed to be horizontal are with an angle and taking the vertical bar they build...A right-angled triangle. What's more - the railing is placed in such a way, that it cuts off part of the stairs. :o
7.Shadow of the railing is wrong. According to it light source comes from the building although it's mid-day, all lamps are off and all other shadows (lamps, tree, door) point to a different direction. :

Yeh, one more thing - take anian's advice too. 

[Moresco]

3.I can't figure out what's the reason for you to put that strange brick-wall around the door...Nevermind. It's your desing. But what looks really weird is the fact that there are 3 different brick-types along the facade. Grin What's more - the left corner of the wall (on the left side of the door) looks...perfect. It's almost impossible to make it look that perfect and besides - look at the top of the wall where the lamps are placed - there are curves etc.

No offense to you sir but I believe you have made an error here.  Pretty much all the advice you dished out was based off of my own paintover, and not his own work???  I can't imagine why you would do this...unless you just didn't read the thread carefully enough.  This is the reason there are three different styles of brick - because I was demonstrating how he should be painting his bricks, rather than pasting them in from some lousy template.  His bricks are the ones on the left, and around the door, mine are the painting ones on the left.   Hope that clarifies that.

Further more, the railing WAS complete but I erased most of it in my paintover because all I wanted to illustrate was the curve of the shadow...nothing more.

Also, I can answer the door problem you're seeing.  I believe it's a single door and a glass pane that continues on to the right.  Not intended to be a double door - I could be wrong, again it's not my art....but I think so.

It's an honest mistake, you should rethink your advice based on his background, not my edit.  =D  Last thing I should ask, what is a "desing"?  Did you mean to type "design"?  Cheers.

[rbaleksandar]

Uuuuuuuups. Didn't read the name of the author of the post.
Still, besides the angle of the railing's bars and the top of the wall (including the different brick-style), all the other things refer to the original picture too.
Ah, desiGN. I see you're an English teacher. Could you give me a lesson or two? And I think mistyping sometimes is not a big deal. Right?

PS: Pls don't "Sir" me. It's weird since you're 10 years older than me. 

[Moresco]

Uuuuuuuups. Didn't read the name of the author of the post.
Still, besides the angle of the railing's bars and the top of the wall (including the different brick-style), all the other things refer to the original picture too.
Ah, desiGN. I see you're an English teacher. Could you give me a lesson or two? And I think mistyping sometimes is not a big deal. Right?

PS: Pls don't "Sir" me. It's weird since you're 10 years older than me. 

Haha, okey dokey, lad =p.   Anyhow, no not an english teacher, honestly didn't know what word you were using.  So basically couldn't understand the sentence...wasn't trying to be funny or whatever, and no not a big deal if it can be understood.   Carry on, laddie. =D

[rbaleksandar]

Ah, another suggestion for poc301 - the sign "Police Department" could look more like an inscription (or whatever it's called), if you make it thicker and (perhaps) shiny...Like gold or something. To avoid brick-complications you could easily stick to the wall-style above and on the right of the door.

PS:
theRedPress, no need to excuse. But I fear if you keep using "lad/laddie" at the end of each sentence, you'll start to call me lady and that's something I'll not tolerate.  :=

[Sean]

Hi Pac!

Now, I'm really rather tired, so I doubt this makes any sense. Thought I'd post it up before I hit the sack though!


For me, the biggest 'issue' I have with this background is that there's TOO MUCH going on! I suggest you try and scale things back a bit, and keep it simple. Make it easy for the eyes to read

You have an interesting 'shape' to work with, that I think works well. I think that your background walls can be broken into two types of 'pattern'. Any more than two, and things get crowded!

A, and B.







See what I mean? Your image keeps the 'depth' that you're trying to get across, but is a lot easier to read. Of course, the 'patterns' I' added are very simple, I was just trying to illustrate my idea!

Break things down into digestable chunks, don't feel you have to make every wall 'unique'.