Game designs for reusing resources...

[antipus]

I hate the idea of using other people's resources.  In Arden's Vale, while I used objects and background ideas from other games, I always redrew them by hand.  It just helps the graphics look uniform.  But I hate the time it takes to create all the resources on my own.  It takes forever!

So here's my thinking: cram as much story and as many puzzles into the smallest possible space room-wise.  Like a OROW game, but more complex.  I'm currently fleshing out story and puzzles for two new games and would like some feedback before I actually start working on the coding/graphics/etc.

Game 1: Cops and Robbers.
You play the policeman in a certain given scenario and attempt to corner the thief.  You follow protocol, use intuition, and somehow, miraculously, the thief escapes.  Then you play the thief and have to figure out how to escape while the computer cop does roughly what you did as a cop.  Same room, same situation, two different play experiences.  Repeat for as many rooms as can be devised.

Game 2: Yesterday's Child.
You play a character who has a really horrible day (you're held hostage, attacked by aliens, expelled from school, trapped in a Chilean mine, whatever).  If only you'd known this would happen yesterday, you could have done something to prevent it and save yourself!  So you switch alternately back and forth playing today's you and yesterday's you, moving, locking/unlocking, destroying etc. things yesterday that make today's character able to make it through the day.

Both game ideas would reuse items, characters, and most importantly backgrounds in unique ways that facilitate easier production.  But both, at the same time, would require much sneakier puzzles to make the games function and be enjoyable.

My question is: does this approach sound feasible?  Which game would you rather play?  What kind of awful pitfalls do you see in this kind of game?  Would either even work?  Do you prefer games with more locations anyway?  Can you think of more practical ways to get more bang for your graphics buck? Any other comments?

[Ghost]

I really like the second idea (bonus points if you are expelled from school FOR being held hostage BY aliens IN a Chilean mine)- it reminds me of Groundhog Day and gives a believeable "excuse" for reused locations.
I can see it work with a small set of locations changed in different ways: You could have certain objects appear/disappear "from the scenery" (a car no longer parked, a traffic light demiolished), or even a limited set of characters changing location (after giving money to a bum, he's no longer in the street but in a small pub, or what have you).

As much as I understand your wish to cut down on "graphics time", you'd have to make up for it by creating really fitting puzzles. I usually don't rate games by the number of locations- think DOTT, for example, which gave you the same relatively small mansion, just in three different eras: That's creative use of a small environment.

Cramming a LOT of puzzles into one room is a double-edged sword too. You give each location more weight, yes, but it can also make a room feel crammed and constructed.

So as a game idea, I really think Nr.2 has a lot of potential, but I wouldn't see it as a good way to "get more out of less".

[edit]
One last thing- I don't know how long you're into game design and "ye ole graphics department", but practise not only makes perfect, but also increases speed! And I liked how Arden's Vale was a bit self-conscious about the art (checking the rocks at the force field made me smile a lot). There's nothing wrong with simple art. It's also useful to keep backups of everything you draw- that way you build up your own library of "stage props".

[AnasAbdin]

I'd really be sad to know that such great game ideas like yours would be included in any non-artistic project. A perfect game begins with a great idea, THE idea. Then you may -or may not- make it worse by graphics choices and bad sounds, puzzles, and other factors... If you really feel you lack of self confident in graphics, you can do like everyone here does, ask for opinions and believe me, people in this forum are the best to consult. Just taking a quick tour in the critics lounge gives me more motive to keep polishing my game and I don't care how long it would take. You can also gather a mini-team or a large one if you like to help you in the game (it's not a bad thing at all) if I wasn't working on my game right now I'd offer my help to draw your backgrounds (for a Sci-Fi game). But then I am a little busy with my project I don't believe in graphics reuse in a single game. Graphics reuse between several games is a taboo.

[antipus]

I'd really be sad to know that such great game ideas like yours would be included in any non-artistic project...

I don't mean for the project to be non-artistic.  I just have played too many AGS games that had wonderful ideas, but had so many distractions that the game suffered.  This includes poorly-planned puzzles, spelling typos, and counter-intuitive GUIs, as well as bad graphics.  I enjoy quality games over quantity.  I WANT artistic games.

But that's the problem with  Arden's Vale.  The plan called for 40 rooms, a dozen characters, a huge story, etc.  I could never produce that much and maintain a decent quality, so I just made a portion of the original game, but spent a lot of time on each scene.  It's the best quality I could muster, but the game is short.

My hope with these future projects is to plan them on a much smaller scope that would approach the initial design with my own limitations in mind.  I can write music and code and design and plot, but art is just painfully slow.

I really like the second idea (bonus points if you are expelled from school FOR being held hostage BY aliens IN a Chilean mine)

And that is just awesome.

[Abisso]

I honestly can't imagine the first idea to be enjoyable, or lasting more than a couple of minutes. Second one seems like it could work though, but it's not that original. Reminds me of this game and a lot of time-travelling stuff ranging from movies to books. Anyway, this doesn't mean it can't be the base for a great game. And since I've played Arden's Vale and enjoyed it a lot (I still can't get 50 points, damn   ) I'm pretty sure you have what it takes to make a good one room game.

[FrancoFranchi]

From a player's perspective, I'd think it's less about throwing in a gimmick to allow you to reuse the same backgrounds:

- Rely on a huge number of inventory items to do a more object-centric game
- Add more characters and more detailed dialogues for a story-driven game
- Code some mini-games, so people will spend more time on puzzles

Of the two ideas, I'd be more interested in playing #1, as #2 just seems very "been there done that" (and it'd be hard to live up to DOTT). 

[antipus]

Second one seems like it could work though, but it's not that original. Reminds me of this game and a lot of time-travelling stuff ranging from movies to books.

Of the two ideas, I'd be more interested in playing #1, as #2 just seems very "been there done that" (and it'd be hard to live up to DOTT). 

I agree with the point that time travel really is an overdone theme.  I thought with switching between the present and past on command and not as a chapter by chapter basis, it would really feel fresh.  But the more I start fleshing out puzzles, the more the ideas feel like Day of the Tentacle.  So that much, at least, is still a work in progress.  However...

- Rely on a huge number of inventory items to do a more object-centric game
- Add more characters and more detailed dialogues for a story-driven game
- Code some mini-games, so people will spend more time on puzzles

I really hate the idea of artificially prolonging games.  One of my favorite games as a teenager, The Legend of Kyrandia, very quickly became my least favorite game just as soon as I got bogged down in a must-draw-a-map, frequent-unskippable-death-scenes, hours-of-repetitive-exploring, underground fireberry labyrinth from gamer purgatory.

Of all of FrancoFranchi's ideas, the one I'm most drawn to adding more characters and fleshing out a more story-driven game.  In dialogs, resources are reused to the nth degree, but as long as the writing is fresh, it doesn't matter.  Gabriel Knight, anyone?

Now I need to go play "Prime Minister's Questions" and... that other one...  Can anyone remember the name of the murder mystery game that touted a new dialog system along with traditional clue-finding?  All I remember is the slick-looking, nearly all-white screenshot. 

[TomatoesInTheHead]

Can anyone remember the name of the murder mystery game that touted a new dialog system along with traditional clue-finding?  All I remember is the slick-looking, nearly all-white screenshot. 

http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=44108.0 This one! Didn't have a real name I think.

[Snake]

I really love the second idea