Adventure Game Studio

Creative Production => Critics' Lounge => Topic started by: Bijulinus on Tue 12/06/2007 08:58:16

Title: Graphics: what about ripping from commercial games?
Post by: Bijulinus on Tue 12/06/2007 08:58:16
As the title states, what do you think about ripping graphics and scenes from games, perhaps using the stamp button and the map editors?  ???
I ask this because I'd love to make a new adventure game, I've got ideas, but I'm no good with graphics and I haven't much time to work on them.

Thanks a lot, goodbye
Title: Re: Graphics: what about ripping from commercial games?
Post by: on Tue 12/06/2007 10:24:54
There are three reasons NOT to rip graphics!
First, you'll be violating copyright, and that's a bad thing, even if you're just making a fan game.
Second, artistic pride. You'll deny yourself of that warm glow inside that only a self-made graphic can give you.
Third, consistency- if you use ripped graphics together with your own graphics, you'll have a hard time to get a consistent look.

No, really, I don't think ripping is a good thing. It's okay to have a good look at how some artist works, and copy that style. It's also okay to take a sprite, modify it and use it to find your own style. It's double okay to ask someone help you improve your work. But don't just rip.

You'll find that most people here are very tolerant when it comes to simple graphics. Making a game with a good plot, puzzles, setting etc. is more important.
Title: Re: Graphics: what about ripping from commercial games?
Post by: Bijulinus on Tue 12/06/2007 10:40:22
Quote from: Ghost on Tue 12/06/2007 10:24:54
No, really, I don't think ripping is a good thing. It's okay to have a good look at how some artist works, and copy that style. It's also okay to take a sprite, modify it and use it to find your own style. It's double okay to ask someone help you improve your work. But don't just rip.

I see your point... you are right, but:
graphics create (most part of) environment and gives (most of) feelings. Without decent graphics, (most of) feelings given by the story fade off. I believe that the poor votes I got with my game are due to the awful graphics I made! I dont want to waste good ideas because ugly visual components... and so ripping seems to be the best way  :-[ :'(
Title: Re: Graphics: what about ripping from commercial games?
Post by: space boy on Tue 12/06/2007 10:55:13
I agree with Ghost. I'd rather see a game with simple graphics than a game with ripped ones. Just make a test background or sprite and post it in the critics lounge and we will help you find a simple but nice looking style.
Title: Re: Graphics: what about ripping from commercial games?
Post by: Bijulinus on Tue 12/06/2007 11:00:06
 ::) Mmm... ok, I'll try that. Thanks a lot!

EDIT: ok, here comes my shy try of a dark-mysterious-guy-from-scary-place.

http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/tipostrano.png
Title: Re: Graphics: what about ripping from commercial games?
Post by: Pet Terry on Tue 12/06/2007 11:15:35
When I play a game that has graphics ripped from, for example, Monkey Island, I can't help but feel I'm playing a Monkey Island game even if the story has nothing to do with Monkey Island. Ripped graphics also make the game seem kind of cheaper and not so good in my eyes, no matter how good the rest of the game is. Personally, I'd much rather play a game with simple but original graphics than a game with graphics ripped from other games.

You say you don't have much time to work on graphics, but I would still advice you to learn some basic techniques and rules, and visit Critics Lounge frequently for advice and tips. Find a simple but effective style you like and try to emulate it. But as Ghost said, do your best trying to avoid ripping!
Title: Re: Graphics: what about ripping from commercial games?
Post by: Bijulinus on Tue 12/06/2007 11:26:13
http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/tipostrano2.png

here is its "side".
Title: Re: Graphics: what about ripping from commercial games?
Post by: ildu on Tue 12/06/2007 11:55:37
That ain't too bad. You at least have proportions pretty much correct, and the coloring is nice. The technique, though is a bit cruddy. I say ditch the black outlines and go with a more detailed finish.
Title: Re: Graphics: what about ripping from commercial games?
Post by: Bijulinus on Tue 12/06/2007 12:03:07
Sorry, what do you mean with cruddy?

Here I removed the black outlines.

http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/tiziostrano3.png
Title: Re: Graphics: what about ripping from commercial games?
Post by: space boy on Tue 12/06/2007 12:13:39
Your character looks quite good. The style is a bit shaky though.

I took the freedom to completely redo your guy in a different style just to show you an alternative way of doing it. I used only the line tool and tried to make it so that a person with little skill could easily replicate it.

Below you see the three steps I used to create the character:
1 - outline
2 - shading
3 - coloring
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/space_boy_album/secretagent.png)

Tell me what you think of it.
Title: Re: Graphics: what about ripping from commercial games?
Post by: vertigoaddict on Tue 12/06/2007 13:47:18
Here's my edit. the left one is your original 'cleaned up' and the right is just a little edit I made... I'm currently on a project called 'faith' but if you want a graphic artist I'm willing to try! (I need/want the credits)

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/dagaran/tipostranoedit.png)
Title: Re: Graphics: what about ripping from commercial games?
Post by: markbilly on Tue 12/06/2007 23:01:06
Space Boy, that looks fantastic. I would probably prefer that style to traditional styles if the game of also good. Also, easy to do.

Another thing no one else has seemed to pick up on is that ripping graphics from loads of games and trying to find the correct stuff for the scene you want, then incorporating them together, etc, etc takes a long long time. Probably about as long as doing it yourself! And that includes the time to establish a style.
Title: Re: Graphics: what about ripping from commercial games?
Post by: on Wed 13/06/2007 00:34:35
Quote from: markbilly on Tue 12/06/2007 23:01:06
Another thing ... is that ripping graphics from loads of games ... , then incorporating them together takes a long long time. Probably about as long as doing it yourself! And that includes the time to establish a style.

Amen to that, and it's not as if we've not seen a lot of attempts on that very procedure.

@Bijulinus: That really doesn't look too bad. Simple, yes, but hell, I wouldn't mind playing a game in that style. Can you show us a screenshot, a location? If character and location fit, you're half home and at least two-thirds dry. Also, spaceboys edit shows how a cool, clean style can be achieved with just a few lines and clever colour panels- should be worth a try?
Title: Re: Graphics: what about ripping from commercial games?
Post by: Bijulinus on Wed 13/06/2007 10:42:13
I didnt make any background, yet. I prefer concentrate on main char, at the beginning... my biggest problem is animating him: what I found difficoult is to mantain "continuity" between frames and directions.
Another problem is to make it serious and not comic. All my chars seem good for a demential story... while I was thinking about an horror game...
Title: Re: Graphics: what about ripping from commercial games?
Post by: space boy on Wed 13/06/2007 12:32:36
Same technique as before only this time I used a greyscale palete and painted over a photo(rotoscoping) to have a realistic pose and proportions. I completed the whole set in under 40 minutes. You can use the same technique to make backgrounds and animations. You just paint over frames of a real person walking. If you or  someone you know has a camera you can record your own poses, moves and background scenes and paint over the imported frames.

So, I took this guy...
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/space_boy_album/somedude.png)

And made it into this(outline, no outline and a little rose thingy to demonstrate a sin city style palete, if you want to highlight blood)
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/space_boy_album/noiroutline.png) (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/space_boy_album/noir.png) (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/space_boy_album/noirrose.png)


Title: Re: Graphics: what about ripping from commercial games?
Post by: vertigoaddict on Wed 13/06/2007 13:03:33
cool! (if it had colour, it'd be like 'killer 7')
Title: Re: Graphics: what about ripping from commercial games?
Post by: aussie on Wed 13/06/2007 18:30:46
Wow, I love some of those edits spaceboy!   ;D

Vertigoaddict, I also like yours because it adds some depth to the sprite. Maybe the foot needs a bit of work, though. The leg should probably be a bit shorter.

Besides, depth needs to be achieved throughout. At the moment, the character is flat all over except for his foot.

Now, slightly off-topic: 

Quote from: Ghost on Tue 12/06/2007 10:24:54
(...)
Third, consistency- if you use ripped graphics together with your own graphics, you'll have a hard time to get a consistent look.

But it's possible. QFG 4 1/2 does it quite well, even if it rips graphics off different games.

I agree with everything you say, nevertheless.
Title: Re: Graphics: what about ripping from commercial games?
Post by: rock_chick on Tue 19/06/2007 20:50:41
I'm totally against ripped graphics but mainly for the reason that those people put hard world into those images and didn't give permission for just anyway to use them.

However another solution that I doubt you'll like the sound o.f but it's the way I've went with my first game, is using free or open source graphics. These people put hard work into those images but they decided to share them and it can be really helpful for people, especially like myself who want to use these type of graphics while working on teaching themselves to make their own, so hopefully in my case my next game(If I even finish my current one) is made up of all my own. Then there's all the other aspects of a game that don't come(generally) from other people, like storyline, AGS coding, designing the layout of the game and if you're new at using AGS well learning the whole process of how to make a game with it

I do agree that if you use graphics from many different sources whether ripped or not then it's very hard to make a consistent looking game. I'm using most of my material from one large resource so I'm getting over that hurdle a bit.

I'm just wondering what you all think of people like me who use other people's graphics(with their permission of course) for their games? Does it make a difference if it's just for their first game, does it make a difference if they're also trying to learn how to create their own workable graphics for future games or even to perhaps include in their first game?
Title: Re: Graphics: what about ripping from commercial games?
Post by: cobra79 on Tue 19/06/2007 21:42:26
rock_chick
The point is to create a game, not to do it alone.
I don't think ripped graphics/sounds/puzzles are bad because someone else put work into it, but because they tend to remain recognizable. It plainly hampers the immersion into the story to have a changed Indiana Jones or Guybrush as the main character (if your not doing and Indy or MI fan game that is). I also think that there is a correlation between ripped graphics and a bad story. When you do everything from scratch you don't have to compromise.
Title: Re: Graphics: what about ripping from commercial games?
Post by: Bavolis on Wed 20/06/2007 04:29:01
I think it's a good time to point out the early Sierra games like Space Quest 1 (original). If you look at Roger, he's mostly blocks, has no detail, and his limbs bend funny. He's not *that* far off from a stick figure. The backgrounds are mostly thick lines and use few colors. It's really not an attractive game, but it didn't matter. The game was fun (although it punished you horribly), the characters and tone were good, and it did what it needed to do.

Adding ripped art will actually cause a large number of people to skip trying your game. We all want our games to be played, and I think original graphics, even if they're beginner graphics, will go a lot further towards accomplishing that.

There was this really weird adventure game I remember playing about a duck (da duck?) that was all drawn with crazy sketches. The odd style of the artwork (by no means professional looking) really gave it character because it was consistent and original.