Adventure Game Studio

Creative Production => Critics' Lounge => Topic started by: Anarcho on Sat 10/12/2005 23:43:21

Title: Hallway background C&C
Post by: Anarcho on Sat 10/12/2005 23:43:21
(http://www.geocities.com/princebusterlw/dsbasedhallwaysmall.png)

Hi,

I'm hoping to get a little C&C on this background.  I've tried a few things that I don't have much experience...namely this  shadow/texture you see on the walls and a bit on the floor.  How's it look?  And how about those indentations in the doors?  I couldn't get them to look exactly right...

Thanks

Logan
Title: Re: Hallway background C&C
Post by: Kweepa on Sun 11/12/2005 00:23:08
Looks good!
It's a bit washed out, which makes it look melancholy. Based on Emily Enough, I'd say that was deliberate.
The walls look fine.
The tops of the door bevels are a bit odd - if you just reverse the bottoms they might look better.
I'd add floorboards.
I'd also change the colour of the wall next to the stairs, probably to the same colour as the rest of the walls.
The light on the floor from the windows, shining through the banisters, doesn't seem to match the size of the windows or be exactly in perspective. A quick fix might be to remove the sixth light bar. It just seems too coincidental that the light ends exactly where the banisters do.
The top of the image is almost featureless. Perhaps you could add a picture rail.
Title: Re: Hallway background C&C
Post by: ildu on Sun 11/12/2005 00:36:05
I think it looks good. I especially like the color scheme. However, the door on the 0 angle wall looks kinda small compared to the two side doors (especially the right one). This whole image is portrayed from below the horizon as the vanishing point is somewhere at the top of the image, so I think you should show the top of the 0 angle doorframe. Also, the two first poles should show some light coming through between them.

I imagine this isn't a complete background, but if it was, I would advise you to add more detail to it. Good job, anyways.
Title: Re: Hallway background C&C
Post by: Anarcho on Sun 11/12/2005 00:39:57
Steve,

Actually there are floor boards.  They lost their definition through the shadowing method i used.  Here's the floorboards without shadow:

(http://www.geocities.com/princebusterlw/darkseedbasedhallwaynoshadow.png)

What i did with the floor shadow was color layers of darker shadows and then decreased the transparency...this is what it looks like with the shadows at 100&:

(http://www.geocities.com/princebusterlw/darkseedbasedhallwayfullshadow.png)

I set that shadow layer at 50%.  The only problem is the floorboards look even more washed out.  Is there an easier/better way to do shadow the floorboards?  Just do it by hand?  Or maybe just make the lines darker?  Or maybe use a different color for the shadows?   

Ildu...you're right about the top of the doorframe.  The door looks smaller because it's pushed over to the left more than the other one is.  Maybe i'll move it over so there isn't any confusion.  No, it's isn't complete yet, and i was trying to think of more details to add...any suggestions would be helpful.  It's sort of an old farmhouse...supposed to be messy/dirty with lots of crap lying around.

Thanks for the help
Title: Re: Hallway background C&C
Post by: Kweepa on Sun 11/12/2005 01:14:02
Oops, I meant skirting boards.
Title: Re: Hallway background C&C
Post by: Anarcho on Sun 11/12/2005 01:28:49
good idea.
Title: Re: Hallway background C&C
Post by: Evil on Sun 11/12/2005 05:58:53
Yeah, floor trim would look nice. At the bottom of the right doorway there looks to be a few missing pixels. The doors don't seem to be the same size or at the same height. The windows are also different. I'm having problems determining where the light source is. Depending where it's at some of the highlights will be triangular. The wall gradients look fine though. Maybe increase all around noise to help them blend.
Title: Re: Hallway background C&C
Post by: Ninjas on Sun 11/12/2005 06:12:50
You need to boost the brightness/contrast. Other than that looks pretty good. I like how the shadows are.
Title: Re: Hallway background C&C
Post by: Anarcho on Sun 11/12/2005 06:15:27
Increase the noise?  How do I do that?  I did the wall shadows by hand, not using a gradient.

How do I increase the brightness/contrast?  Is there an easy way to do that too?
Title: Re: Hallway background C&C
Post by: Evil on Sun 11/12/2005 06:40:36
Depends on what program you are using. Personally, I always liked your coloring style. Very grey.
Title: Re: Hallway background C&C
Post by: esper on Sun 11/12/2005 07:35:53
I think Steve might be wrong about the light. It looks as though the sun is either coming up or going down at an angle which makes the light go toward the right of the room. If this were so, the light would stop right there. However, if it is full on daylight, you might expect the light to fan out like you have it on the right side.

Also, I think the reason you can't get the indentations on the door right are because the doors might be a little too wide. Every door I've seen like that is very thin, thinner than most. Here's the only one I could find on Google image search, which actually is about as wide as the ones you have.

(http://www.theonelab.com/files/mirrors/somethingawful-Apr1-2003_files/sidebar-right-door.jpg)

Lastly, I don't know how you could go about it (I'm not very skilled with Photoshop, although if I were I'm sure I might be able to crank out some nice stuff), but I think for a dusty old farmhouse a good idea would be to show the beams of light shining through the dust as it breaks through the posts on the railing.

EDIT: Like this, only through railing instead of the window crossbars:

(http://www.lobos.nih.gov/Charmm/Povray3/pov30035.gif)
Title: Re: Hallway background C&C
Post by: ildu on Sun 11/12/2005 11:35:37
I don't see the need for a inside lightsource. The contrast and brightness levels suggest that this is an unlit room with a sunny day outside. Of course, the brightness should be a little lower for that. I agree that the light beams would be a nice addition and they aren't so hard to do in PS. A great addition in PS CS2 is a revolutionary vanishing point modifier, where you just set the vanishing point and you can transform your lightbeams to match the windows. Then you can have subtractive areas using the same vanishing point to get rid of the light that is limited by the bannisters.

As for details, you said it's kind of a run-down farmhouse. First of all, I would add floor linings. Second I would add transparent curtains for the windows. You also need stuff, such as paintings on the wall. And seeing as it's run-down, I would tear some of the wallpaper and add dirt to walls and the floor.
Title: Re: Hallway background C&C
Post by: Anarcho on Mon 12/12/2005 00:32:51
Here's the latest version.  I've redone the floor light a bit...extending the light and blending it a bit more.  The windows are the only light source...i think it's a little bright because it's snowy outside, which tends to create bright reflections.  I also added a crack in the wall, which i'm unsure about.  It looks a little staid.  Oh, and i added drapes. 

I would like to do that light shining thing mentioned by esper, but i have no idea how to do that.  I'm using trusty old paint shop pro 5.

Thanks for the help everyone!

(http://www.geocities.com/princebusterlw/darkseedbasedhallwaysmallerrevised.png)
Title: Re: Hallway background C&C
Post by: Ninjas on Mon 12/12/2005 01:55:32
(http://www.gnomesend.com/darkseedbasedhallwaysmallerrevised.png)

This is with adjusted brightness and contrast.
Title: Re: Hallway background C&C
Post by: Helm on Mon 12/12/2005 02:03:03
it's quite possible that's not the ambience the original artist was going for.
Title: Re: Hallway background C&C
Post by: ildu on Mon 12/12/2005 02:03:27
I think that's way too much contrast. The downplayed palette enforces the feeling of a rundown old place. And I think it contributes to the style immensely. One reason I liked Emily Enough so much were the low contrast greenish colors.
Title: Re: Hallway background C&C
Post by: scotch on Mon 12/12/2005 02:22:22
It does look rather too contrasty like that, true, although I think the original is also very foggy looking, which seems quite odd indoors, some more contrast is in order I think, but keeping a similar level of saturation to the original image
(http://caverider.com/darkseedbasedhallwaysmallerrevisedrevised.png)
perhaps like that... I think it keeps the spirit of the original, mostly.Ã,  I must say, it is a very nice adventure game bg.
Title: Re: Hallway background C&C
Post by: stuh505 on Mon 12/12/2005 02:29:45
Right on, Scotch
Title: Re: Hallway background C&C
Post by: Redwall on Mon 12/12/2005 03:20:48
Quote from: scotch on Mon 12/12/2005 02:22:22foggy

I was trying to come up with a word earlier to describe my main problem with this background, and that's certainly it. Several times I actually lost the edges of the shapes in the original.
Title: Re: Hallway background C&C
Post by: Ninjas on Mon 12/12/2005 03:22:02
I just posted that up as an extreme example of what adjusting the contrast could do for the image.
Title: Re: Hallway background C&C
Post by: Anarcho on Mon 12/12/2005 04:52:00
Hmmm, Scotch, that does look much better.  I'm just not sure how to do that though...i'll give it a look and figure it out. I was aiming for a greyish tone but my version was lacking definition.  Thanks!

[EDIT]  OK, I'm utterly stupid.  I never knew there was a brightness/contrast tool!  I used to just fix everything by hand....I probably would have finished emily enough last year if I had known stuff like that.  So stupid!  uuurgh. ::)

It looks infinitely better with a little more contrast.    :'(
Title: Re: Hallway background C&C
Post by: esper on Mon 12/12/2005 08:32:46
I, like I said, am not very good at Photoshop. I, actually, are t3h Photoshop suxx0rzz. However, I have an idea for how it might work.

Open a new layer (I don't even really know how to successfully work with layers, so bear with me here). On that layer, draw "rays" going from the corners of the posts to the corresponding corners of the strips of light laying on the floor. Fill these with a pale yellow color. Now, it should look like you have three-dimensional boxes at funny angles poking out of the bannister and leaning on the floor.

Next, alpha that out so it's almost invisible. Add some noise to the light beam layer to look like dust in the beams, and then add a very slight blur effect. Voila! I think that should do it.

I'd do a paintover, but I'm on my computer at work, where I have neither Photoshop nor my trusty tablet.

EDIT: Not sure how this would be done on PSP 5, but I'm sure it would be somewhat similar.
Title: Re: Hallway background C&C
Post by: mozza on Mon 12/12/2005 09:27:23
There is something that just dosen't seem right with the stairs. I think it is the wall downstairs. I'll attempt to show you what I mean.

EDIT: Here what I mean. I just did it in MSPaint.

(http://www.geocities.com/mozza_26/pics/crits/darkseedbasedhallwaysmallerrevisedPO.PNG)

^ Here is the part I think looks weird.

(http://www.geocities.com/mozza_26/pics/crits/darkseedbasedhallwaysmallerrevisedPO2.PNG)

^ This is what you could do with it. If the room downstairs is stone. Or something...ish.
What I mean is that you could join this area onto the room below.
Title: Re: Hallway background C&C
Post by: Gilbert on Mon 12/12/2005 09:30:05
In my opinion the stairs look like they're too thin to step on, however, I can't confirm unless a character is placed into the pic. for comparisons.
Title: Re: Hallway background C&C
Post by: sportyjay on Mon 12/12/2005 09:31:36
I like scotch's paintover better as it isn't as grey and dull looking as the original, but thats just my opinion. And yes I think that the stairs are alittle too thin.
Title: Re: Hallway background C&C
Post by: mozza on Mon 12/12/2005 09:45:32
Quote from: Gilbot V7000a on Mon 12/12/2005 09:30:05
In my opinion the stairs look like they're too thin to step on, however, I can't confirm unless a character is placed into the pic. for comparisons.

Unless of course the character has pencils for legs :P
Title: Re: Hallway background C&C
Post by: Gilbert on Mon 12/12/2005 09:50:44
Well if that's a background for another Emily Enough (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=22279.0) game, the characters' feet are indeed quite thin, but still, since the characters' bodies are not that thin, it may look better if the stairs are drawn thicker.
By the way, sportyjay, the style for the Emily games was supposed to be gray and dull, however, I think Scotch's colour mod. fit quite well, since there's a window in the room with at least a bit light going into it, unless the outdoor lighting was also supposed to be very dark.
Title: Re: Hallway background C&C
Post by: Anarcho on Mon 12/12/2005 14:22:53
Scotch's color mod looked great.  i applied more contrast to my version and indeed it brings out much richer tones while keeping the depressing greyish theme. 

This isn't for another emily enough game, and I haven't drawn a character yet so i don't know how small their feet will be...so the stairs may very well be too small.  I was planning on adding wallpaper or something to the wall leading down the stairs, but since i haven't drawn that room yet i don't know what color/texture it will be.

esper, I'll try that out once i get home!
Title: Re: Hallway background C&C
Post by: GarageGothic on Mon 12/12/2005 23:25:02
This looks great, and reminds me a hell of a lot of a location from Dark Seed. Especially the layout and the choice of color. Unless this was a direct influence in the first place it might offer some inspiration: http://www.mobygames.com/game/amiga/dark-seed/screenshots/gameShotId,32314/
Title: Re: Hallway background C&C
Post by: Anarcho on Tue 13/12/2005 00:17:01
Good memory!  Holy crap, I was using that darkseed shot for inspiration/reference!  I never actually played the game but the graphics are very cool.  For this one, I actually used the perspective as a reference and went from there.  It was quite helpful.