With AGS3.0 already knocking on my door and the stable beta on my drive, I was very intrigued by the possible speed gain due to to 3D3 support- and thus I started a tiny spritework to test out how it would perform in a 640x480 game.
Now, I never worked in such high (*cough*) resolution and in the end made a sketch that I turned into a clean sprite.
And I can't help it, it looks sort of okay, but the shading's all off. And I guess that there's a too high colour count too... I read the Spriting Tutorial for "Sphinx" by BigBrother, and I spent a good while to balance the contrast, but well, maybe some of you could have a look?
(http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1236/templedancerji8.png) (http://imageshack.us)
PS: Why a mummy? Well... why not?
The pixel-pushing seems fine so far (the line-work, the shading, the palette), what really grades your sprite down is the balance. In all four versions, she's leaning backwards - like she's about to fall on her back.
The light blue line on the hair looks bad IMO. The shading on the skirt is also a little odd. Apart from that it's really nice.
As DKH said, she does look a tiny bit like she'll fall over backwards, so why not bring back the legs a pixel or two.
Yes, the pose is quite exaggerated, almost a parody of DOTT's Bernhard- looked not too bad on paper though.
I tried to balance her a bit more by moving the legs a couple of pixels back and leaning the chest and head a bit forward. The effect is subtle.
Also made an alternative, more "pale mummy style" swatch.
Whew. How do people animate this stuff? Just to check I dug out my copy of Torin's Passage, which uses a similar style of clean-edge sprites, and there seems to be a lot of effort to it.
(http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/9126/templedancer2wj0.png) (http://imageshack.us)
Much better.
I quite liked the original highlight on the hair. The bright-blue-on-black-hair is a comic book coloring convention that I think works well with the cartoony style you're using.
In terms of shading, I think a more top-down, less front-to-back light source to accentuate the anatomy would improve the slight pillow-shading look it currently has. Stuff like a shadow under her chest, probably under the knee, under her hands, and maybe some slight shading to her face. The original color scheme is better than the new one.
Over all, an awesome sprite! Any plans to make something real?
Incidentally, most of the image links in bigbrother's sprite tutorial show up as broken for me. If you have pictures, I'll update the image links in the Wiki.
Quote from: Snarky on Fri 04/01/2008 16:58:12
The bright-blue-on-black-hair is a comic book coloring convention that I think works well with the cartoony style you're using.
I too think so, and just darkened it for the revision. It will return ;)
Quote from: Snarky on Fri 04/01/2008 16:58:12
In terms of shading, I think a more top-down, less front-to-back light source to accentuate the anatomy would improve the slight pillow-shading look it currently has. Stuff like a shadow under her chest, probably under the knee, under her hands, and maybe some slight shading to her face. The original color scheme is better than the new one.
Again, thank you for the useful feedback, I will give it a try.
Quote from: Snarky on Fri 04/01/2008 16:58:12
Over all, an awesome sprite! Any plans to make something real?
There is a tiny idea and a name. "The Pharao Is Not Amused". A pharao (deceased) and his favourite handmaiden (also deceased), in a tomb, and the pharao extremely vexed because his trip to the underworld is delayed (the girl forgot the tickets). Basically two rooms and one hard-pushed puzzle right now, but well, in terms of graphics it is an interesting thing.
Quote from: Snarky on Fri 04/01/2008 16:58:12
Incidentally, most of the image links in bigbrother's sprite tutorial show up as broken for me. If you have pictures, I'll update the image links in the Wiki.
Hah. Yes, I *have* all the images; I saved them a while ago. Somewhere in a maze of all my backup directories. I'll search them and send them over to you.
Quote from: Ghost on Fri 04/01/2008 17:25:30
There is a tiny idea and a name. "The Pharao Is Not Amused". A pharao (deceased) and his favourite handmaiden (also deceased), in a tomb, and the pharao extremely vexed because his trip to the underworld is delayed (the girl forgot the tickets). Basically two rooms and one hard-pushed puzzle right now, but well, in terms of graphics it is an interesting thing.
Don't forget the H on Pharaoh! It's silent!
Hmm... I just felt like randomly painting over the shading on the skirt.
(http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/722/skirtvp0.png)
Following Snarky's advice I came up with this:
(http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/2140/templedancer3sz6.png) (http://imageshack.us)
* Moved the light source up and to the left, tried to figure out where
shadows would fall.
* I used two layers of shading. Both are Multiply layers on which I painted
with 50% gray. The lighter one has an opaque setting of 60, the dark
one 70.
* Added a highlight to her eyes and her (left) cheek.
* Refined the shading of the skirt, too.
* Return of the comic-style hairline!
I must say I like the look of that a lot. It was, however, the total opposite of what I had intended- I had hoped to simplify the sprite, now it is far more detailed than practicable for a game character...
Shame on you ! You should be working on DITA ! :P
Quote from: Andy R. on Fri 04/01/2008 21:47:02
Shame on you ! You should be working on DITA ! :P
^Yeah.
WE REALLY, REALLY, REALLY WANT TO PLAY!
Quote from: Ghost on Fri 04/01/2008 17:25:30
There is a tiny idea and a name. "The Pharao Is Not Amused". A pharao (deceased) and his favourite handmaiden (also deceased), in a tomb, and the pharao extremely vexed because his trip to the underworld is delayed (the girl forgot the tickets).
Quote from: Ghost on Fri 04/01/2008 21:03:33
I must say I like the look of that a lot. It was, however, the total opposite of what I had intended- I had hoped to simplify the sprite, now it is far more detailed than practicable for a game character...
A good looking handmaiden (euphemism? ::)) who's silly enough to forget the tickets for a most important travel. You can draw her almost motionless while some gibberish comes out her lips in the background. No walking cycle + some cliche prejudice about women! How dared I!
Quote from: Andy R. on Fri 04/01/2008 21:47:02
Shame on you ! You should be working on DITA ! :P
Who said I didn't :D
Anyway, this isn't about DITA and what I should be working on- I am asking CC here.
Quote from: Ghost on Fri 04/01/2008 15:31:25
Whew. How do people animate this stuff? Just to check I dug out my copy of Torin's Passage, which uses a similar style of clean-edge sprites, and there seems to be a lot of effort to it.
I don't think they
do animate it. Most sprites of that style I've seen are hand drawn animations, traced over with pixels (a lot of animators do that, have you ever looked at the concept art for Super Mario Bros. and Megaman? It's all done by hand. They'd be mad not to). It's just an extension of simple shading, I guess :) It's what I do, anyway. (though my stuff is decidedly less complex :3)
I think it would be extremely hard to animate this sprite, or even your simpler shaded one, because of the number of colours you're using. The complex one has 93 colours, the simple one 47. Before you can even think of animating, I suggest reducing the number of colours in your palette down to 16. Otherwise it's going to look like an unholy mess once it starts moving.
It wouldn't be a problem to animate, you just need to decide on a plan of attack. Do you want the movements to be exaggerated and cartoony or realistic and smooth or simplistic enough to get the point across? I must be mad but I've never traced over a hand drawn animation in my life to make a sprite animation. Animation is no big deal once you sit down and just do it, so don't be discouraged!
As for the sprite, I quite like it; it reminds me of a disney made-for-tv character. The only issues I have with her are her massive forearms/hands/ and feet, which could be a style choice but don't really fit with the overall design imo. You don't need to make the feet miniscule, but right now they look even bigger than Dirk the Daring's clodhoppers!
I made an edit to address this along with some shading alterations.
1. Reduced forearm and hand size and sculpted the left arm to look more feminine.
2. Reduced size of right foot considerably.
3. Reshaded the skirt with the light source in mind.
4. Applied the highlight on the face with the light source in mind and on the arms and waist as well. The nose and cheeks in particular will be brighter since they protrude from the face.
5. Tried reshading the hair but got confused by the shape of it.
(http://members.cox.net/progzmax/templedancercl.png)
I'm really not sure about the hair because I couldn't tell what part was overhanging and why the bangs were lighter (instead of darker) as they curved towards the neck. I think you've done a great job with the sprite, hopefully this will help you make it even better!
ProgZ, an awesome edit! Especially the face; I can see where I missed things there. Thank you very much; I'll tinker a bit more with this.
The large feet and hands are really a style choice; I've always done them this way to exaggerate movement.
Just a comment: I really like looking at this character. It's rather brilliant, and really a pleasure to the eye. I'd love to play a game with the style here. Nice going mate :)
*blush* Thank you! We'll see...
<Ignore, he was updating them apparently>
Quote from: Ghost on Fri 04/01/2008 14:12:05
Now, I never worked in such high (*cough*) resolution and in the end made a sketch
that I turned into a clean sprite.
And I can't help it, it looks sort of okay, but the shading's all off. And I guess that there's a too high colour count too... I read the Spriting Tutorial for "Sphinx" by BigBrother, and I spent a good while to balance the contrast, but well, maybe some of you could have a look?
I like the sprite, I like the style, and I like the stance...there are - however - a few things that don't feel entirely correct to me. Since pixel-art has never appealed to me, I redrew (sketched) the character on paper, and recoloured her in the computer to show what I mean:
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/templedancer_Misj.png)
First of all, I prefer the non-shaded version; to me it has more character due to the simpleness. Furthermore, a simpler shading would fit such a cartoon character better in my opinion. Finally, I believe it will fit better within a game than a pre-shaded character (one of the reasons I think, why MI3 (http://www.worldofmi.com/thegames/monkey3/index.php#Returning%20characters) or BS1&2 don't use pre-shaded characters).
As for ProgZmax's edits, while his edit made the character 's arms and feet more anatomically correct (although the feet are still exaggerated), especially the arms feel wrong. they feel to skinny for the style, and the hand - well, I don't really know what happened to it, but my guess would be that some parts of it have already fallen off after those thousands of years. His feet look good; but I'm just partial to he bigger ones you drew...they have more character. One thing that I really feel to be a great enhancement in his edit is her skirt. By rounding it, it became part of body; showing of her feminine body. Also, I understand the hair feels confusing to him; although I don't really mind. Alternatively, you could give her some head ornament to make it more clear, and such an ornament would not seem illogical on a queen or priestess (compare Asterix's Cleopatra (http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/3/3a/Asterixcover-6.jpg)). Personally I don't think I would change it though.
As for my own edit:
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/TempleDancer_Misj2.png)
Her forearm is not exactly as I intended it, but I didn't feel like redrawing the sketch. Also, her 'pupils' got a little too big, so she's now got a somewhat hypnotized look on her. You've have to look past that :)
I know many people here don't like 'black outlines', but I prefer them in most cases (it's part of the whole pen-paper-classic-drawing-thing).
I've relaxed her hand a little, because it originally looked like she was holding something.
The most obvious change of course is the colours I used. In cartooning it's often preferred to use few colour groups to make the character more unified; which makes her easier to read (a trick also used by Disney). I've coloured her bandages, skirt, hair, and eyes in the same colour blue, and then adjusted the lightness, also I've used a single colour for both gold ornaments. This way I've reduced the perceived colour to three (and black):
1. Skin
2. Ornaments
3. Cloths (skirt & bandages), hair highlights & eyes
4. Hair & outlines
Her lips could be added to the colour-group of her skin (just slightly darkened), but in this image I've also added some red so technically her lips are a fifth colour group. It's important to keep colour groups together when changing the hue (so in this case a red skirt would automatically produce reddish bandages) in order to keep this unity within the character (with the possible exception of her eyes). Some minor and simple shading could be added to the character, but it should nowhere near as complex as your second shading, or Prog's edit (although I do like his shading of her skirt). It doesn't really fit the style, and it makes the character more difficult to read.
My advise: keep it clean, keep it simple; because it's really a great - and eye pleasing - character.
Misj'
Misj:
:o *baffled* :o
I am amazed at the sheer work you put into that. Your edit is pretty close to what I had, somewhere, in my mind- a simplified and playable version. I really must say this thread teaches me a lot.
Tinkering is continued. I stay faithful to the size of the hands and the legs. First, it's a style I have been practising for far too long now to change, and second, it is nice to have at them a bit exaggerated should this ever become a real game sprite. Also, it has a certain "Mummys Alive" touch (don't know if you recall the cartoon) and well, it's just plain right.
Your simplification works well, just the eyes and the overall expressions they create don't quite work for me- a bit too naive, maybe. And while I know about the Disney technique of colour coded characters I never was too much a fan of that, maybe to my loss.
*sigh* If only days had more than 24 hours...
Nah, unless you want to reach Misj style, which i would consider of a not so well thought thing to do, i think your style shaded or not reaches the quality of Lucas arts games. just put your sprite next to Ben from Full Throttle. Ben might look worse. Really if I could draw such quality I wouldn't be asking for critique and the improvements might have been very good but hadn't change your sprite much so that I can say "Wow he draws way better than Ghost." I only said he shades a little better than Ghost. I haven;t realised what are you planning on see here. But there's a little chance you 'll see it.
Quote from: Dualnames on Sun 06/01/2008 20:47:32
Nah, unless you want to reach Misj style, which i would consider of a not so well thought thing to do, i think your style shaded or not reaches the quality of Lucas arts games.
I wouldn't dare telling someone to adapt my style :), I only used a pen (rather than the original pixel art) to make some pointers. These pointers - if considered valuable enough - can be easily adapted to Ghost's style. And I would encourage him to use them only as pointers and nothing else.
I must add, that 'reach' is misused in that sentence, because it implies that I'm better (at a higher level which he could reach for) than Ghost, and I don't think that's what you meant...if you did, I disagree :)
QuoteReally if I could draw such quality I wouldn't be asking for critique and the improvements might have been very good but hadn't change your sprite much so that I can say "Wow he draws way better than Ghost." I only said he shades a little better than Ghost.
The intention of giving (constructive) critique isn't to show off that you are better than the person criticized. And I'm pretty sure that neither I nor ProgZmax intended it that way. But I also think that - while Ghost's sprite was already great to start with - it will be even better once he's finished. And that's what the critics lounge is all about. Besides: you're never too good to learn more.
Quote from: Ghost on Sun 06/01/2008 18:30:29
I am amazed at the sheer work you put into that. Your edit is pretty close to what I had, somewhere, in my mind- a simplified and playable version. I really must say this thread teaches me a lot.
I'm glad to hear you found it useful. It's always fun when someone's drawings inspire to pick up my pen and draw. Yours did, and she taught me a thing or two too.
Looking forward to the finished version (as well as a 'high res' game of yours (in due time))...
Misj'
Quote from: Misj' on Mon 07/01/2008 14:35:52The intention of giving (constructive) critique isn't to show off that you are better than the person criticized. And I'm pretty sure that neither I nor ProgZmax intended it that way. But I also think that - while Ghost's sprite was already great to start with - it will be even better once he's finished. And that's what the critics lounge is all about. Besides: you're never too good to learn more.
I was just about to but something in very similar lines down, but you said it already, Misj.
Get a fresh view, a different oppinion, a new approach- that's what I "wanted to see here". And I got what I wanted. Otherwise no-one would ever need put up anything here because we all know art is a matter of style and personal oppinion, both of which cannot be critizised.
I am making- just to try it out- a small background for P'tah to live in right now and will put it up here once done. I must say this high-res stuff is fun to do. Requires some more reference pics though.
As for the shading with animation in mind, I found a relatively well-working method: Just animate the non-shaded sprite. Then add a layer to the image, drawing shadows in solid, slightly-less-than-50% grey. Then drawing solif shadow areas on this layer, and *then* setting it to multiply. After that it's basically just a matter of readjusting some colours, and it looks quite nice.
Internship started again today, but the nights, oh, the night is always mine ;)