Help with Backgrounds-graphical enhancer needed.

Started by OuchMyTentacle79, Fri 29/06/2007 02:54:57

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OuchMyTentacle79

I notice alot of GREAT background art and alot of you have awesome advice and can take a picture of someone's lame attempt (like one of mine) at a background and make it a million times more better.Could I get some advice/help on adding a creepy dead tree and part of a car (trunk/tail end) and overall graphic makeover needed(hahah) but someone wanna give this a shot?

here's the initial background:




and here's the concept needed(I know it's completely ridiculous but it's just to show where the tree(brown) and car(red) would go.


TerranRich

Why don't you try it out yourself seriously, and show us your attempt? Or would you just rather have people do it for you?
Status: Trying to come up with some ideas...

OuchMyTentacle79

#2
I'm trying.(failing miserably)

cobra79

I guess this is a joke given that the previous topic made it clear that these kind of "I had 2 minutes"-backgrounds are not appreciated. If you look closely you will find a bit of advise there too.
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=31633.0

Also the current background blitz has a slight tutorial character and shows how some people work.

http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=31518.0



ildu

Off-topic:
Let's not start that again. I felt wtcq was mistreated in that thread and there's no point in repeating that. You'll just be wasting everyone's time and more likely wasting a thread.

On-topic:
You should really start out with determining what you want to show - what the bg represents. Where does the path lead? Is it daytime or nighttime? Does the tree and car have significance? Could the road be drawn more dynamically and not as a straight path along the bottom of the screen? Try and visualize the composition in your mind well before you start drawing.

I can do a quick paintover, but I really need to know what the bg is supposed to represent. I think that's what most people lack in these thread - a succint description of what they're trying to attempt in the image.

raddicks

I would say the background looks a bit too 2D and flat. The solid colours make the horizon just appear as a 'rectangle box' and the background trees look too saturated.


It's not much of an edit, just did a couple of dodging/burning and some different colours overlayered (multiple colours looks more naturalistic). I don't know what paint programmes you have, but its worthwhile to snoop for a good one (I think theres some free ones which are good... Ever heard of Oakaki stuff?)

I don't expect you to have dodge/burn in any case, but you see the depth created? areas closest to the Horizon Line (in this case the grass and the background trees) generally must be lighter and the stuff furthest away can be darker if needed. I will be honest, the whole background needs a real workover, I suggest don't worry about defining outlines, get the shapes and blobs down first. Also a tree is going to be very difficult, so It might be worthwhile to use a picture as a reference or concentrate on the shapes rather then the outlines.

InCreator



21 minutes, there ya go. Too happy colors for spooky image, I'm afraid, but you can easily adust tint/saturation/brightness to your own desire. You shouldn't use my image but get some pointers, though you can use it if you want to. It's a quick one though...

** late for work, running now

TerranRich

Well, sorry, but I thought my advice was sound. It may have come off as a bit harsh, but I'm not going to tip-toe around it: one should try it out oneself, then ask for crit...not ask for repaints immediately.
Status: Trying to come up with some ideas...

loominous

#8
This will more or less just be an echo of what Ildu said.

I think what makes a good background, and anything else for that matter, is a clear vision, and an execution where all elements work towards that goal.

If you don't have a vision, there's a very small chance the elements will happen to work together towards any goal, and even less likely, to one that you're happy with.

Course, just the vision isn't enough; you need to know how to construct the elements so they work in whatever direction you've set your mind to.

This latter part is where we can help you, but we need to know the vision. The more details you can provide, the more we can help you.

Course, this assumes that you have a vision, and it's more likely that this is more of an improvisational attempt. That's all fine and dandy, but we'd be more or less wasting our time trying to help you, so if you're looking for advice, try crystalizing a vision.

(sometimes the vision is vague to begin with, and morphs along the way, but it's heading in a single direction at a time that's crucial)

-

(to not leave you hanging, here are some things that the vision could include:

-What is the purpose of the background
-What is the most important element in it; a car; a clearing; a typewriter; a log
-What are the other important elements in it; a city in the background; a creepy tree
-What are the less important ones
-What environment are you looking to create; a tropical forest; an opium den; a principals office
-What specific age is it set in
-What kind of style do you want; gritty realism; road runner cartoony; van Gogh; powerpuff girls
-What kind of mood should it have

etc)

(this might seem like much thinking, but it's more like:

'I really like CMI backgrounds (style), but with more of Heroes feel to them (mood/style), and a bit of a Seven creepiness about them (mood), and in this scene the protagonists would be heading for this castle (the most important element) in this Bladerunner wasteland kind of thing (environment), where he'd be going to in his wagon (an important element), and there would be a dark sky n lightening n such in the background and some skulls n such (less important element/important element).'

This would be enough for a vision, and you could construct a composition around it that would focus on the castle, while including the wagon nicely, and set it against a stormy sky and a wasteland with skulls.

Then you could study CMI backgrounds, look at some Bladerunner wasteland shots (not sure that there were any when I think about it), look at some episode/pictures of Heroes n Seven, and try to give the elements the style/colours of those inspirations)

-

This might seem like much work, but it really only takes less than a minute of thinking.

Quote from: TerranRich on Fri 29/06/2007 16:14:50
Well, sorry, but I thought my advice was sound. It may have come off as a bit harsh, but I'm not going to tip-toe around it: one should try it out oneself, then ask for crit...not ask for repaints immediately.

I agree that the lounge shouldn't be a place where you just order a background.

I do on the other hand encourage people to ask for advice early on; not so we can finish the background for them, but give advice in a stage where the most significant decisions are made, so they can steer the background into a more fail proof direction.

Often when people show more or less complete pics, it's already way too late to make any significant changes without spending a large amount of time on them, and while the advice given can be implemented in the next attempt, the "lessons learned" will be far more abstract, and tougher to apply in a completely new pic.

Ideally, imo, most stuff in here would be sketches, that slowly evolves into finished executions, but that's most likely just me.
Looking for a writer

OuchMyTentacle79

hey thanks all for the comments and advice,and a very "special" thanks to Raddicks & InCreator for their attempts.(very nice guys)

OuchMyTentacle79

#10
Alright,I had some time today to work on this background.






and to answer some questions.


I am looking more towards the "road runner style" or DOTT but the colors I want to look more smooth-edged backgrounds.
I've been trying different ways to smooth edges and get rid of the blocky outline feel(I HATE THAT),I've been trying to do something about the edges but nothing seems to work.I'm using adobe photoshop elements and ms paint.something about the edges is totally killing it for me. the edging on everything= :P I wanna blend and smooth the edges to be more soft looking.

I want a different texture for the tree (more cartoony texture wood)
I want the setting in moonlight the mood is got to be going for "spooky".
I do know what dodging/and burning tools are,and the sponge tool,and smudge.Lighting render in adobe and stuff.any suggestions/critique would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks all,I greatly appreciate it.

oh yea,also scratched the car from this scene.















pslim

I think you have a good start on a texture for the tree. The only real problem with it is that the lines are random, not really giving us a sense of the shapes of the tree bark. I would suggest looking at photos of trees and thinking about what you're drawing as you add the texture.

The forest toward the back of the bg could be improved a lot just by added a layer between the top and the top of the hills for tree trunks. You could even take that opportunity to put in some glittering eyes the way they do in scary cartoon forests.

Also, decide where the moon is and put in some blue-tinged highlights on the side of the treet facing the moon and maybe some bluish shadows on the side facing away.

I also would suggest making the grass a bit scruffy along the edge of the path to make the difference between them clearer.
 

OuchMyTentacle79

#12
worked on the grass... ;D



whatcha think?

I'm going to mess around with the tree tonight.

TerranRich

Wow, you've come a long way! It looks really good.

After you work on the tree, I'd work on the path, then on the sky. Is it twilight? If so, I'd add a few stars here and there, maybe a hint of the moon, some clouds, and definitely some shading. The sky isn't usually just one solid color, especially at twilight. The bottom (or the top) is usually lighter than the rest. Keep that in mind. :)
Status: Trying to come up with some ideas...

OuchMyTentacle79

#14
Thanks Terran.
I'm going to add ALOT of little things here and there.I just added the car in again(I need to follow my initial plan/storyline.)



right now I'm trying to figure out how to do a tree bark pattern.also I'm trying to figure out what to do with the lighting.most of the game is in dark scenarios.and still those edges on the tree and car need to soften up a bit.hmmm.

TerranRich

Unless there is a direct light source on the car, the car is too bright. Make it a darker, less intense red to fit in with the rest of the nighttime background.
Status: Trying to come up with some ideas...

OuchMyTentacle79

#16


-changed car color.
-changed tree bark.

thanks again,this is a learning process for me. ;D

I'm gonna work on a moon maybe some dark clouds.


ildu

You know what? This is actually starting to look pretty good :D.

cobra79

Since this looks much better, it confirms my assumption that you did not give your best the first time around. ;)
In addition to what was already said you should now start to think were the light is coming from and shade your objects accordingly.

Hudders

Your tree looks incredibly flat.

Try making the bottom of the trunk more rounded to stop it looking like a cardboard prop.

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