help with shading, etc on "realistic" modern bg

[pslim]

This is a background I'm working on for practice to get the rust out. It may or may not end up being used in a game my partner and I are thinking of making.

It's obviously still in progress, as certain things haven't been detailed yet (the crate against the wall, the door), but I have real trouble shading some things so I thought I would go ahead and ask for help before I muddled the whole thing. I'm also not all that happy with the color scheme.

If you can't tell, my main inspiration is Sierra's high-res period.






x2



Any comments are appreciated.

[Stupot]

Theres really nothing major wrong with this background at all, I really like it.  A bit of polish is all that's needed... as for the crate and the doors, why don't you just try using whatever technique you used on the counter, that works pretty well, although it does seem to be floating slightly.. not sure why.

[pslim]

although it does seem to be floating slightly.. not sure why.

Do you think it's because I've let some of the light hit behind the counter, where the side of the stairs is shaded down there? Should I darken the floor between the counter and the stairs? *cry*


Or is it because the lower portion of the counter contrasts too much with the floor directly below it?

[ildu]

I love it !!

I love the color scheme, the architecture, the detail, the lighting, the composition, everything.



There are a few issues though:

- The staircase seems a bit bonky and out of perspective. Basically a staircase and the handle wall are just slanted faces that abide by the same horizontal vanishing point as the rest of the image. You just have to raise the original vp to get the staircase vp. You might have done that already, but I don't think so since it does look wonky.

- The floor looks way too soft. It almost looks as if it's padding. You can avoid this by drawing sharp lining seams for the tiles with a bright low-saturated yellow color. In that way, you can peg the padding looking shading as decor or a slight bevel of the tiles.

- The poster behind the counter looks a bit odd by itself there. You might wanna lower the brightness a bit and maybe add another poster to overlap that one from one of it's corners.

- The poster holder thingy looks a little non-recognizable and dull. It reminds me of fluorescent light tubes more than posters. You might wanna add one or two mis-shapen posters in front of those just to make them distinguishable as paper (hence posters).

- The door on the upper level isn't working. It's attracting too much attention since it's bright, but lacking detail. Personally I would go with a dark wooden panel door depending where the door leads (interior wood, exterior metal). If you want to keep the color, I would suggest adding at least a visible doorknob and some slight discoloration.

- The foreground objects aren't working. The straight thingy on the left confuses me since I don't know what it is. So whatever it is, try adding some recognizable features to make it more apparent to viewers. Also, the two boxes in the foreground are too dark. It's okay to have it really dark where there is no light, but what about the parts that clearly should be lit. Why is the side of the shop counter so well lit and not the side of the foreground box? So I suggest you light up the sides of the boxes and preferably also the top edges of the vinyls with varying colors. Also, you might wanna think about adding another box to the right side of the other two boxes in the foreground (to close up the composition). Just put your fingers on the right corner of the image and you'll see how it changes.



Anyhow, looks really good . You're sitting on a veritable goldmine, if you can produce a couple of these in a bundle. One thing though, that I must insist is not to change the color scheme. It's one of the main strengths this image has going for it.

Props on the hand, the banana and etiquette posters, the detail of the bookcase on the upper level, and the toned-down colors.

Post this for the current bg blitz, if you get it done in time. Vinyls pass as antiques these days .

I'm not even gonna consider a paintover. I dislike paintovers if they're done for such a complete image like this. Unless they're correcting some fundamental error in the perspective or something, I always feel paintovers remove ownership. If something is painted over really well, what choice do you have than to emulate what the paintoverer has done? And when you do that, you give up part of the ownership.

[InCreator]

This! Is! Absolutely! Awesome!

* What I do suggest, is colors. This image doesn't have much pure red or blue in it. Add tiny books or similar thingies that are colorful, this fakes detail nicely and distracts attention from large empty areas. Be careful though.
* The corners of upper level where floor meets staircase wall and other side too, are a bit too sharp for my taste. Try to blend staircase wall and upper floor somehow, maybe shade some dust into corner.
Or even better, shade 1-pixel wide horisontal line of upper level floor a bit darker (the bottommost horisontal line of upper floor wall)
I say this because it looks unnatural. Old stone architecture has very rarely totally sharp and polished corners.
Darkening (or brightening, try both!) all stone edges a tiny bit would easen whole picture to the eyes.
* Don't simply shade everything smoothly, I'd use stronger textures in some places.

Maybe I'll do an edit later.

EDIT: edit!



* Brightened/darkened corners of walls
* Adjusted contrast/brightness a tiny bit

Following is more of an experiment, but--


* Added transclusent black layer with cutout lights
* Added glow to lights

[pslim]

Thank you guys for the advice, and the encouragement. And InCreator, I love your paintover. That's very much like the effect I wanted to achieve eventually but didn't know how.

I'm going to do my own edits to try to incorporate your advice and also Ildu's, but it will take me a bit of time. Thanks again and look for a new version soon. 

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

You've created a nice, full background here.  The only thing I would suggest is decide what style you're really after (Sierra's everything looks smooth and a bit blurry or Lucasart's everything's crisp, clear and jaggy).  The left side suggests the former (staircase, l-desk) while the right side suggests the latter (trunk, door, air conditioner).  If you want to get somewhere between the two -- which is what I would suggest, since neither style is extremely visually appealing in the age of high-definition monitors -- is to alias the sharper edges of objects rather than just blending them, like so:



Basically what I've done here is just aliased the outer edges or areas that looked hard compared to the rest of the image.

[pslim]

The left side suggests the former (staircase, l-desk) while the right side suggests the latter (trunk, door, air conditioner).  If you want to get somewhere between the two -- which is what I would suggest, since neither style is extremely visually appealing in the age of high-definition monitors -- is to alias the sharper edges of objects rather than just blending them, like so:

I plan on antialiasing, I just haven't finished the background, as I said in my first post. There are some items in the room that I haven't even begun to work on past the shaping stage. The trunk on the wall, for example, is what everything looks like when I start out.

[pslim]

Here's the latest version. I tried to incorporate the suggestions I got, but I'm not sure how well I did.







x2



It could still be improved a lot but I think I'm going to set it aside for the moment and work on some sprites. I really appreciate the help improving it.

[OuchMyTentacle79]

background is AWESOME! Great job.

[hedgefield]

Excellent job on the lighting. I do agree on the stairs, they're a bit off. The top and bottom are not that divergent that perspective slimming would be applicable. Try letting the railing go parrallel with the stairs.

[pslim]

Excellent job on the lighting. I do agree on the stairs, they're a bit off. The top and bottom are not that divergent that perspective slimming would be applicable. Try letting the railing go parrallel with the stairs.

I think the reason the stairs look funny is that the railings are asymmetrical. I used a reference photo for that (I couldn't have come up with it on my own) and really liked the way it looked, but if you're not expecting it to be that way it can read strangely, I think.

[Hudders]

That's a pretty secure looking door for a record store. I imagine you'd be scanned by LINC before being allowed through.

[InCreator]

I like new version but--
how can one browse what one cannot see?

I mean, the records are in darkness, and it's supposed to be a store. Or is it simply closed?

[tube]

What a beautiful background! I love the colours to bits.

The only thing that bugs me is the way the left edges of the steps do not align as they probably should. I don't know what else is supposed to be wrong with the stairs, but this caught my eye instantly. Now it seems like the steps around the middle are not as deep as the rest, or maybe they are set deeper than the rest. I understand that this might be because of the lighting, especially if this part was drawn from a photo reference.

Here's a one-minute edit to show what I mean:

The left one is the original of course.

[pslim]

I like new version but--
how can one browse what one cannot see?

I mean, the records are in darkness, and it's supposed to be a store. Or is it simply closed?

You're right; I'm just scared to add more light sources. I'm afraid I'll muck the whole thing up. I do want it to be darker than average, but I don't want it to be so dark it isn't functional as a shop. I'll work on that, and see how it goes. *dread*

The only thing that bugs me is the way the left edges of the steps do not align as they probably should.

You're right; I really need to fix that. Thanks for the edit, too, it'll help me out. I had the hardest time getting the stairs to look even halfway decent.

That's a pretty secure looking door for a record store. I imagine you'd be scanned by LINC before being allowed through.

That's actually the door into the rest of the building. The street door is the one at the top of the stairs, your basic glass number. I might at some point try to hint at a railing or something outside it, if I can make that work.

[Hudders]

That's actually the door into the rest of the building. The street door is the one at the top of the stairs, your basic glass number. I might at some point try to hint at a railing or something outside it, if I can make that work.

Ahhh.

That being the case, it kind of reminds me of Starbuck's apartment in the new Battlestar.