End-game screens

[fred]

Hey - remember Pirates! and it's open-ended gameplay where at the end of your career you would get a detailed description of your life after the retirement from privateering? Whether you became a barkeep or an admiral of the Queen's fleet, or something else?

I always thought it was a cool feature, so I'm doing almost the same thing in "Space Darling", an AGS sci-fi game. I've rendered some end-game pictures to go with the different rankings (4 out of 10 by now), and any crits would be appreciated. The pictures will go with verbose descriptions of their depicted stations in life, the score and some stats. I haven't decided how much to resize them for in-game use,Ã,  but they're probably going to be somewhat smaller than they are now.

In my own opinion, the pictures have some atmosphere - but also, something seems to be missing. I'd like (also very particular) suggestions on what to do with each or any of them that will make them better.

I've compressed the pictures just a little, but they're still around 500k, so here are the links:

Junkman

Miner

Smuggler

Barkeep

[Desmond]

I like the idea, and these look good so far.  I also like how they're rather different from one another, in terms of angle and color.

My big suggestion (which is also my pet peeve in all computer-generated graphics) is that you have to add cast shadows.  In most cases, they just need to be enabled in your light source for pre-rendered 3D, but they're glaringly absent in the "Junkman" image, where a setting sun would cast long shadows off of those objects resting on the ground.  The barrel in particular looks pasted on, which it more than likely isn't -- just a side effect of the lack of shadow.

My favorite is the "Miner" image, which seems close to done.  Maybe a few more elements in the foreground -- supplies?  What do miners use?   

I'd like to see more buildings in the "Smuggler" image, or maybe something like a bridge or a fleet in the background.

In the "Barkeep" image, it looks kind of like we can see into the other building windows, which I doubt is what you want (unless those floors really are empty).    I'm guessing they're supposed to be mirrored windows.  I don't know what to tell you here except that if the reflections can be pumped up and the window color itself maybe made darker, it might be clearer... maybe it's just me and those windows are reading fine for everyone else.   

One question, if you don't mind: what are you using for textures?  Is there a specific library you like, or are these shipped with a particular program?  They're pretty nice.

[fred]

Thanks, those are good suggestions. I'll add some stuff to the miner and smuggler pics like you suggest.

I see what you mean about the shadows in the junkman picture. Kinda forgot that the background sunset was a texture and not a real light-source, but I'll put one in there that matches the angle and light color, and casts appropriate shadows.

And you're right - the barkeep image windows are supposed (and set) to be reflective, and now that you've pointed out that they could also seem transparent, I can't see them as reflective anymore. Strange optical thing. I'll try some different settings on them.

About the textures, I collect them from anywhere (games/modeling packages/photos) to build up my own library and then combine them into materials. I'm using 3dsmax for these scenes, and it comes with pretty good maps and materials. Things like bump-mapping, or masks for other settings often need to be drawn specifically for certain geometry, but max can generate alot by itself. The sky background in the barkeep image is an example. It uses a tresholded noisemap to generate the white stars on a black background, then a gradient ramp map to fill the black with tones of darkblue, then it blends another noise map with different settings over the scene to create cloud effects, and yet another gradient ramp map to shift the hues vertically. The mountains are then image-googled and pasted on.

[Ace_Gamer]

Where can i get 3Dsmax? is it a download programme? im really interested in it. it could give my games a good look

[MrColossal]

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?id=5659302&siteID=123112

3d max is a 3500 dollar program so... Yea..

If you're interested in 3d but don't want to pay for it check out Blender, Wings3D and there's a free version of Softimage out there.

As for these pieces:

I love the idea of telling the player what happened next. Especially if it really ties in to how they played the game. Not just stock stories. But if a player played really aggresively it shows in their story...

But for crit:

http://www.eatpoo.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=43678

Check out what they tell that guy and maybe it'll help you.

Eric

[fred]

Thanks for the link, I spent some time on those forums looking at tutorials and tricks - some of those guys just make me wanna forget about computer art, they're light-years ahead of me, but hell, I did some updates on the smuggler image anyway, mostly
* bevelling object edges to make them less clean,
* adding some geometry (pillars) to the building,
* changing lights and shadows,
* adding detail and a spaceship to the background, and
* roughening up all the textures to get more grit and dirt.

I fooled around with some fog and volume light effects, but can't seem to get the proper sense of depth to the effects so I deleted them again. Maybe those things are actually easier to do in postprocesing in Gimp or Photoshop. Any hints?

Here are two new versions of the smuggler scene, crits are welcomed:

Modification 1

Modification 2


(Original)

[Kweepa]

Some suggestions, in no particular order:
* save as jpg - 50% quality from Photoshop's save for web feature gives images < 100k, which are eminently postable
* use coloured lights to add a bit of warmth and variety to the scenes - make the ambient bluish (since it's night) and the point lights yellowish for example
* dial down the stars' brightness and add some variation - it looks like a bright scene but the stars are very visible
* some of the stars look "rushed" - three pixels in an L shape etc, and I think they're too uniformly distributed
* the cargo container's doors are too thin compared to the thickness of the walls of the container, and they don't look like they shut together (too short and no lock mechanism)
* the guy leaning on the wall's shadow doesn't meet his hand, so it looks like he's not touching the wall
* if you upload your 3dsmax file perhaps someone can do a "paintover" (not me though )

[Eigen]

This probably doesn't fit your style but here goes anyway. Gave it a little more cinematic look or tried to ..




-Eigen

[fred]

Thanks, I think this got me to a point where I'm satisfied with my last remake of the smuggler scene.

>>> Latest smuggler remake

Following most of SteveMcCrea's suggestions, in this version I set up new lights for the entire scene, giving the lamp a warmer yellow glow and the shadows and ambience level a bluish tint.
I moved the man, to make him actually touch the side of the container - thanks for pointing out that he was leaning on thin airÃ, 
I also made the container doors a little taller. They are actually wide enough to close the container when the come together, but I guess the POV obscures it. I think having made them taller helps sufficiently, since if they take up more of the scene horizontally, they stand out in the image too much in my own opinion.
I didn't actually fix the stars in this version, but I omitted them from the final Unsharp Mask Filtering I did on the rendered image in GIMP, so they're not as bright as in previous version. My hope is, that since the scene is darker overall, the stars won't seem too bright anymore. Any opinions?

Thanks for the suggestions so far, I'll start doing remakes of the other 3 scenes/images now.

And Eigen - I like your version, although I want color versions to be used in the game. Your interlaced effect is cool and very sci-fiÃ,  - reminds me of how it was used in Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri Alien Crossfire.

--------
Edit: An Update of the junkman-image is here:

>>> Junkman modification

I redid the lighting to get some more realistic shadows and added a few thorny shrubs to the landscape. What do you think?

---------
New Edit: Here's an update of the barkeep image.

>>> Barkeep modification

I changed the windows' materials and reflection maps to try and make it more clear that they are reflective, nor see-through (except for the window to the bar). Since they are reflecting the starry sky it will b hard to make them appear any less see-through than they are. I also bevelled the building's concrete edges to make them less hard. The sparkles from the row of lights are added in GIMP, as is a little bit of sharpening. Image looks rougher, perhaps too sharp compared to the old oneÃ, 

[Kweepa]

Paintover:


- recropped to move the guy in the container more towards the centre of the image - currently the central stripe of the image is empty
- saturated the lights
- dimmed the stars, added some sky details and a skyline
- added some crates in the foreground to fill empty space

For junkman
- the shadows don't match the sun position (right on the horizon)
- the bushes seem to be floating
- I would add some textural variation on the ground and make it less smooth
- perhaps some rocks would add variety

For barkeep
- the stars look like snow - they are too evenly scattered
- I would probably remove them entirely from the glass reflection, and definitely from the barriers
- the green panes are too bright green for something that is so reflective
- there is a lot of empty space in this image

[fred]

Nice composition - I borrowed some of it in the latest remake.

Mainly the skyline and the foreground crates add some much needed depth to the image. I really like your use of color (good effect with the purple/cyan sky and the yellow lights) - I also saturated the lights a bit, but it's hard to get the complementary effect without setting up a lot of lights, so I think this is how far I can go with it in this scene - but I'll keep it in mind for new scenes. I also thickened the doors and added some hinges. As for the recrop and the central strip being empty, I see what you mean - it should be broken up for a more interesting composition. On the other hand I like to have the important elements slightly off center. But thanks for ideas and the paintover - it is really good practice to try and achieve similar effects in 3dsmax.

So here is the new version:
>>> Latest smuggler remake

(I like the painted quality of this one, too, comes from playing with color levels)

well... back to work on the remaining scenes.

[fred]

Update to the junkman scene:

>>> Junkman mod2

Took me some time to do, since I've been on several detours trying to add other light sources. Finally got back to this, which is close to the original, but where the sun is a bit higher in the sky, and off-center in order to allow for illumination that enhances the important things in the scene and still seems somewhat realistic. I liked the sky in the original better, but with the sun that low on the horizon, the whole scene would be totally in shadow, so this is it.

You guys are still welcome point out flaws (I'm learning from this), especially in the barkeep and miner images, that I still need to do updates on.

------------------------------
Edit:

Here's what I think will be my final edit of the barkeep scene. Given the composition, there's really no way i can think of to lessen the 'horror vacui' it may inspire, so I'm just going to apply the lesson learned in future compositions and make them less empty. I did put in some barstools, but most of the changes are to the lighting, the background and the reflective materials.

>>> Barkeep mod2

[fred]

Ok, here's the latest miner remake (added a drill and an oil spill on the floor, changed the piping and floor textures and rendered bigger). I think I'm finaly done doing these four images.

>>> Final Miner End-screen