Here be a song.

Helm · Sun 26/02/2006 03:14:16

www.locustleaves.com/music/suddenstillpart7.ogg

This is a song that I've been recording for a month now. It's 12 minutes, no macrostructural repetition of parts (a theme may be repeated in a row, but once evolved or abandoned for a new theme, there may be no return to it later on. no versebridgechorus stuff here) and is currently instrumental all the way. It's a remake of an old track, named 'Sudden' which in turn was a remake of an even older track named 'Still' so there you go. The original was played (badly) by a full band, two guitars, keyboards, bass, drums. The middle version was recorded as guitar tracks to teach a then new guitarist the song, and now that there is no more live band, this has been all done at home. No real amps were used, guitar to distortion pedal, signal to sound card, Sonar for mixing. There's a string quartet in the background, a full pipe organ, a bassoon and a flute, courtesy of Garritan, and the drums are an extensively equalized and tweaked verson of the free NS Kit.

For people with such weird kinks, you can listen to the old sudden here to check how far it's come since it's two-years-ago-incarnation. The 'still' version isn't even online, it's that bad. The song was mostly composed 3 years ago or so, although it's fair to say that there's been extensive reworking of parts along the way.

There's going to be vocals eventually, but it'll take a few months more to work up to this, so this is a mix to critique and comment on for the time being.

Known issues are this strange crackling at 2:00ish and 3:00ish... I'm not sure where it's coming from. I think it's the result of my CPU struggling when I mix down without having frozen all the tracks, so hopefully on the final mix that'll be delt with. Otherwise, fire away! Nitpicks, major blunders, ideas and opinions are all welcome.

Gregjazz · Sun 26/02/2006 03:29:00

We gotta get you some heavier drums, man.

Jamstix has this cool thing where you can get different blends of the drums, so you can get more room mic mix, giving it that perfect metal sound. NS_Kit7 free is always a little too confined and weak sounding for me (though it can sound great for jazz/funk with the right EQ/compression).

I have a song you might like... I downloaded it a while ago, it'd be legal to send it to you since the owner posted it online for public critique.

Helm · Sun 26/02/2006 03:34:41

Man, I've exhausted the hell out of NSkit, and I do know I gotta step it up, but the Drumkit From Hell I've been eyeing is 7 gigs or something, and I can't find it anywhere currently. Jamstix looks interesting as well, I must say...

rorschach · Sun 26/02/2006 05:05:49

This is my cup of tea.
I agree about the drums and where's the bass man?
You gotta fatten the sound especially in the heavier/faster parts

get some good vocals to round it off.

The song has potential just fatten the spine.

Helm · Mon 27/02/2006 22:03:20

What's wrong with the bass? Are the bass notes inaudiable? This is strange 'cause it's probably one of the most bass-heavy tracks I've done, distorted bass and contrabass coupling at places... are you listening on headphones or speakers?

ManicMatt · Mon 27/02/2006 23:10:41

Yeah, those snares just don't do the song justice!

My fave bit is the very beginning, actually!

Otherwise it's a very acomplished song, and if I wasn't so stuck to songs with a rigid verse/chorus/repeat I'd like this more.

Dunno if you'll see this as a compliment or an insult Helm, but I can't believe you did this song!

Helm · Tue 28/02/2006 01:58:33

haha, why do you say?

Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens · Tue 28/02/2006 02:49:17

My first impression listening to the beginning was that it reminded me a bit of Ming's theme from Flash Gordon. Also, I detest 98.5% of all vocals and obviously would advise against corrupting a tune that seems to stand very well on its own. Not being a music man by trade, I can only go by what I hear rather than to rely on any formal schooling, but I'd say the guitar playing is extremely competent, the bass has a good contributing feel to it without overpowering everything else, but yeah, the drums seem to lack in overall body to me-almost like they're tacked on and not part of the actual tune. Perhaps a volume increase might do the trick there, though, since they don't sound 'bad' to me at all. Also, since this is a rather free-form tune it has a very jam-session feel to it, which isn't a bad thing (unless you think it is). Overall I quite like it, and the guitar bits remind me of Queen.

rorschach · Tue 28/02/2006 23:03:43

I realised my error when listening to it the first time. First of all I listened to it very early in the morning with too low volume and bad speakers. Now when I have re-listened under better conditions - it's just fine abit undefined at some times.

About the vocals. A song can rise and fall with vocals. If the right vocals are used you can link all the transitions more smoothly, it all depends on how you want it tho.

Helm · Tue 28/02/2006 23:46:57

We are considering various layers of vocals. There's going to be choir-ed "ahhs" that sort of thing in various parts, vocalizations, not lyrics, and then there's going to be deep brutal vocals in the vein of many doom-death bands, some shredded high-end screaming and a strong male singing lead. It's all down to where I place the voices and what they do, I don't think the music will inherently suffer from not remaining instrumental.

earlwood · Wed 01/03/2006 01:53:31

The beginning and the end really did it for me, from about 6:00 on I felt was just about sonic brilliance, and I usually don't tend to dig this type of stuff.

Now for some reason I have an itching to dig out "Larks' Tongue in Aspic" from my filthy closet.

Helm · Wed 01/03/2006 02:31:04

I'm really glad you like, earlwood. I am a big King Crimson fan myself, although I don't think I'm doing anything especially Frippian on this track! More of a Psychotic Waltz meets Shape of Despair while early Fates Warning are making bbq type of party I guess.

But man, does Larks' Tongue in Aspic pt.1 rock out or what. I especially love the violin-with-soundeffect melody on the end, that part makes it for me.

earlwood · Wed 01/03/2006 02:48:44

Quote from: Helm on Wed 01/03/2006 02:31:04
I'm really glad you like, earlwood. I am a big King Crimson fan myself, although I don't think I'm doing anything especially Frippian on this track! More of a Psychotic Waltz meets Shape of Despair while early Fates Warning are making bbq type of party I guess.

Hehe. Perhaps not as a whole, but the changing dynamics and that wicked bit played at ~7:00 reminded me of that wierd guitar/bass break at the fifth minute of "Larks' Tongue in Aspic Part 1."

Quote from: Helm on Wed 01/03/2006 02:31:04But man, does Larks' Tongue in Aspic pt.1 rock out or what. I especially love the violin-with-soundeffect melody on the end, that part makes it for me.

Indeed, this entire album gets me worked up! I love in "Larks' Tongue in Aspic part one" when it slows to like this, horror-movie-esque violin work, then the drumming picks up out of no where and the rest of the song really caught me off-gaurd the first time I heard it.

[edit]
Oops, how terribly off-topic, my bad.

voh · Wed 01/03/2006 14:15:28

Hey Helm, read your PM.

Visti · Sun 05/03/2006 17:37:55

Helm, you need Drumkit From Hell. Even the 700-something mb thing would be a step up from that and with that you still get both room mics and close mics for all drums to blend as you like. Other than that, this stuff is really cool, keep it up. The end part was utterly awesome.

It's great inspiration as well, it got me really pumped to want to record some of my own stuff and finish stuff I have partly recorded, but my main bass isn't recording-ready right now (I'm doing some modding and I'm still debating whether or not to put the old pups in or get some new ones), so it'll take a while. I'm rambling. It was awesome, though.

Oh, and what did you use to track the drums?

Helm · Tue 07/03/2006 07:42:14

Hi, Visti.I used Battery 2 for tracking.

I downloaded DFH Superior, 2 gigs version, but it appears it's only Cocktail and Percussionist set, not the Drummer config I really need, and I had trouble using it in Sonar 5, got kind of frustrated and decided to download BFD two dvd version and try that, I hear it has a very clean and inviting GUI that I think I'll need.

Visti · Tue 07/03/2006 16:18:32

Do you need like lots of RAM to run those suckers? I mean I only have 512mb and Ableton is having trouble running some of this stuff. Is the Battery thing good? Maybe I should look into that, I really need something that I can use to track complete tracks instead of building each sample.

I'm downloading BFD Deluxe Edition (or at least I think I am.. I can't figure out if it's actually five DVDs and I'm just downloading one, anyway) at the moment, but I really don't what to except. I have the jamstix demo and it works surprisingly well, I must say.

There's just so many possibilities it's hard to figure out. If I could get the DFHS with some kind of nice GUI, I would be in heaven.